Suspected Racism: No kids for you

[lictor616]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/racist-couples-barred-from-adopting/story-e6frf7jx-1225874287526

"An appeal court in Sicily ruled that the couple were unfit to adopt children of any description, the reports said.

A child protection agency took the couple to court after they submitted an application in Catania, in eastern Sicily, saying they were "prepared to take in up to two children... regardless of sex or religion, but... not with dark skin".

The court ordered a magistrate who reviews adoption requests to ignore such specifications, then took things a step further, ruling that any such "racist" couple should not be allowed to adopt at all."

Oh well too bad so sad... two more white kids are staying in the orphanage!

eat it bigots!

[lictor616]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/racist-couples-barred-from-adopting/story-e6frf7jx-1225874287526

"An appeal court in Sicily ruled that the couple were unfit to adopt children of any description, the reports said.

A child protection agency took the couple to court after they submitted an application in Catania, in eastern Sicily, saying they were "prepared to take in up to two children... regardless of sex or religion, but... not with dark skin".

The court ordered a magistrate who reviews adoption requests to ignore such specifications, then took things a step further, ruling that any such "racist" couple should not be allowed to adopt at all."

Oh well too bad so sad... two more white kids are staying in the orphanage!

eat it bigots!

I like that, maybe then can move on to normal families now, and start taking away children from suspected racists (on only whites of course- cuz they're the only ones who need to apologize for it).

Sure you're a good father and provider, but we caught you surfing racist websites... now your kids are in an orphanage... that<ll be the day...

[Bonam]

Actually we had a topic on this while you were banned...

Personally, I think parent's beliefs in regards to race, even if they are really racists, should not preclude them from adopting children nor be considered as a factor against them in regards to child custody, unless they specifically incite their children to commit physically violent acts. In a society based around the fundamental right of freedom of speech, individuals should have the right to express themselves, even in drastically politically incorrect ways, without being punished in this way.

However, many European countries do not really hold freedom of expression in the same regard as, for example, the United States does. This is something I've noticed often comes up in political debates... such as "but that's against freedom of expression!", but they forget they are talking about some country where that freedom is not exactly held paramount.

The main issue here is really not in that specific court decision, but in the fact that the government has the power to make these kinds of decisions based on such factors to begin with. It is the concentration of such power in the hands of government, even a democratically elected government, or a judiciary, that inevitably leads to tyranny.

[lictor616]

The main issue here is really not in that specific court decision, but in the fact that the government has the power to make these kinds of decisions based on such factors to begin with. It is the concentration of such power in the hands of government, even a democratically elected government, or a judiciary, that inevitably leads to tyranny.

hear hear

[dre]

Actually we had a topic on this while you were banned...

Personally, I think parent's beliefs in regards to race, even if they are really racists, should not preclude them from adopting children nor be considered as a factor against them in regards to child custody, unless they specifically incite their children to commit physically violent acts. In a society based around the fundamental right of freedom of speech, individuals should have the right to express themselves, even in drastically politically incorrect ways, without being punished in this way.

However, many European countries do not really hold freedom of expression in the same regard as, for example, the United States does. This is something I've noticed often comes up in political debates... such as "but that's against freedom of expression!", but they forget they are talking about some country where that freedom is not exactly held paramount.

The main issue here is really not in that specific court decision, but in the fact that the government has the power to make these kinds of decisions based on such factors to begin with. It is the concentration of such power in the hands of government, even a democratically elected government, or a judiciary, that inevitably leads to tyranny.

Personally, I think parent's beliefs in regards to race, even if they are really racists, should not preclude them from adopting children nor be considered as a factor against them in regards to child custody, unless they specifically incite their children to commit physically violent acts. In a society based around the fundamental right of freedom of speech, individuals should have the right to express themselves, even in drastically politically incorrect ways, without being punished in this way.

Gotta disagree. Teaching racism or other anti-social behavior is harmfull to a child even if they arent incited to commit acts of violence.

Having said that... a couple wanting children that have the same racial background as them COULD be a pretty innocent thing. It could be motivated just by the desire to have children that look similar to them or to have what they percieve as an ordinary family or a family thats the closest to the family they would have if they had their own children. Those things dont necessarily any sort of strong racial bias or hatred. But it would certainly raise alarm bells and cause me to take a real close look at these people. If i thought they were going to indocrinate these kids with a bunch of racially motivated hatred I would definately reject them and try to find a better option.

[lictor616]

Gotta disagree. Teaching racism or other anti-social behavior is harmfull to a child even if they arent incited to commit acts of violence.

Having said that... a couple wanting children that have the same racial background as them COULD be a pretty innocent thing. It could be motivated just by the desire to have children that look similar to them or to have what they percieve as an ordinary family or a family thats the closest to the family they would have if they had their own children. Those things dont necessarily any sort of strong racial bias or hatred. But it would certainly raise alarm bells and cause me to take a real close look at these people. If i thought they were going to indocrinate these kids with a bunch of racially motivated hatred I would definately reject them and try to find a better option.

racism isn't illegal by the way... so on what grounds could you possibly prevent them from adopting? If parents want to adopt a child and raise him to be mormon, that will have far more dangerous and anti-social implications then if the parents merely want to inculcate racial awareness say to the child...

The bottom line is that you and people who think like you can't decide whats best for others... and that's probably a good thing.

[DrGreenthumb]

racism isn't illegal by the way... so on what grounds could you possibly prevent them from adopting? If parents want to adopt a child and raise him to be mormon, that will have far more dangerous and anti-social implications then if the parents merely want to inculcate racial awareness say to the child...

The bottom line is that you and people who think like you can't decide whats best for others... and that's probably a good thing.

I totally agree with the decision NOT to give kids to racist douchebags. They would be better off in an orphanage than raised by haters.

[Michael Hardner]

racism isn't illegal by the way... so on what grounds could you possibly prevent them from adopting?

Hate messaging is illegal, and for the precisely the same reasons that we don't want that kind of person transmitting deceptive and persuasive messages, it makes no sense to allow someone to instill them in children who haven't yet developed their critical faculties.

[lictor616]

Hate messaging is illegal, and for the precisely the same reasons that we don't want that kind of person transmitting deceptive and persuasive messages, it makes no sense to allow someone to instill them in children who haven't yet developed their critical faculties.

It depends what constitutes as hate messaging: someone writing about the obvious fact of race isn't hate. Deceptive and persuasive messaging is also not a crime... don't know where you came up with that...

And by your logic, why are religious people permitted to adopt? If you'd be logically consistent you'd be as opposed (if not more so) to the prospect of religious people "instilling in children" the nostrum that they believe in..

[lictor616]

I totally agree with the decision NOT to give kids to racist douchebags. They would be better off in an orphanage than raised by haters.

preferring children the same race as you (for obvious reasons- namely not having everyone presume that your children are adopted) isn't a manifestation of hate...

i don't know ... could you take me down that road... why are they automatic "haters"?

Funny you should say that too because the National Association of Black Social Workers (NABSW) condemned transracial adoptions in in their historic Position Statement. In that paper, the NABSW equated the removal of African American children from their families of origin--and their placement in White homes-- with "cultural genocide."

[Argus]

I totally agree with the decision NOT to give kids to racist douchebags. They would be better off in an orphanage than raised by haters.

You know, I hear all the time from reasonable and liberal people who laugh about what racists and bigots their fathers once were. It didn't seem to cause any lasting harm.

On the other hand, I rarely hear any well-adjusted people talk about the happy time they had with their druggy fathers.

[Argus]

Hate messaging is illegal, and for the precisely the same reasons that we don't want that kind of person transmitting deceptive and persuasive messages, it makes no sense to allow someone to instill them in children who haven't yet developed their critical faculties.

You haven't established the couple is anywhere near the kind of racialism that someone who sets up hateful web sites and the like posesses. All you know is they want white children. So? Don't people of other races prefer to have children of their race too? Don't natives kick non-natives off the reserves cause they don't want them around? Haven't their been court battles about how Black children should be brought up only by Black parents and Native children should only be brought up by Native parents? Isn't preference for ones race a nearly universal element of the human condition?

You're reducing all such people to the equivalent of the KKK

[DrGreenthumb]

You know, I hear all the time from reasonable and liberal people who laugh about what racists and bigots their fathers once were. It didn't seem to cause any lasting harm.

On the other hand, I rarely hear any well-adjusted people talk about the happy time they had with their druggy fathers.

I can understand people wanting to adopt kids of their own race and I don't equate that with racism. I've heard a lot more people complain about their alcoholic parents than their "druggy" ones.

[Michael Hardner]

It depends what constitutes as hate messaging: someone writing about the obvious fact of race isn't hate. Deceptive and persuasive messaging is also not a crime... don't know where you came up with that...

And by your logic, why are religious people permitted to adopt? If you'd be logically consistent you'd be as opposed (if not more so) to the prospect of religious people "instilling in children" the nostrum that they believe in..

I think the legal definitions of hate messaging are enough to answer your question.

Religious thinking is far from illegal, in fact is protected specifically in the constitution.

[Michael Hardner]

You haven't established the couple is anywhere near the kind of racialism that someone who sets up hateful web sites and the like posesses. All you know is they want white children. So? Don't people of other races prefer to have children of their race too? Don't natives kick non-natives off the reserves cause they don't want them around? Haven't their been court battles about how Black children should be brought up only by Black parents and Native children should only be brought up by Native parents? Isn't preference for ones race a nearly universal element of the human condition?

You're reducing all such people to the equivalent of the KKK

I'm speaking to the general question about whether people have the right to program their children as tiny hate-robots. I'm not interested in any specific case that Lictor brings up, as I know that he ignores the lessons we have taught him in the past, and repeats the same logic mistakes over and over.

I'm not throwing good time after bad...

[Argus]

I can understand people wanting to adopt kids of their own race and I don't equate that with racism. I've heard a lot more people complain about their alcoholic parents than their "druggy" ones.

You probably don't get to meet many children of druggy parents unless you spend a lot of time in prisons or slums.

[dre]

You probably don't get to meet many children of druggy parents unless you spend a lot of time in prisons or slums.

LOL, thats retarded.

[bloodyminded]

The majority of drug addicts are legal recipients of drugs prescribed by their doctors. They outnumber illegal-drug addicts by a huge factor.

So no, most "druggy parents" do not live in slums or prisons.

[DrGreenthumb]

You probably don't get to meet many children of druggy parents unless you spend a lot of time in prisons or slums.

Since you directed the "druggy" remark at me I assume it was a "pot-shot". So since at least 2/3 of the people I know smoke pot, I have met plenty of children of "druggy" parents, and none of them are complaining. The young ones don't even know that their parents are smokin pot, and the older ones most often smoke it themselves, even with their "druggy" parents, again with no complaints, or negative consequences. On the other hand, I have met and know many people who were adversely affected by their alcoholic parents, who will complain of emotional and physical abuse. I had more than a few friends growing up who would avoid their parents houses for days, and sleep on my couch b/c they didn't want to be home when their father/mother was hitting the bottle(and anyone around who breathed the wrong way).

[lictor616]

Since you directed the "druggy" remark at me I assume it was a "pot-shot". So since at least 2/3 of the people I know smoke pot, I have met plenty of children of "druggy" parents, and none of them are complaining. The young ones don't even know that their parents are smokin pot, and the older ones most often smoke it themselves, even with their "druggy" parents, again with no complaints, or negative consequences. On the other hand, I have met and know many people who were adversely affected by their alcoholic parents, who will complain of emotional and physical abuse. I had more than a few friends growing up who would avoid their parents houses for days, and sleep on my couch b/c they didn't want to be home when their father/mother was hitting the bottle(and anyone around who breathed the wrong way).

I know a person that knows a person taht knows a person, that has a cousin who knows someone that... blah blah blah

jesus! learn how to argue for god's sake... don't bring in some lame unverifiable anecdotal nonsense!

or go smoke a rock and be a useless burn out...

Edited June 8, 2010 by lictor616

[DrGreenthumb]

I know a person that knows a person taht knows a person, that has a cousin who knows someone that... blah blah blah

jesus! learn how to argue for god's sake... don't bring in some lame unverifiable anecdotal nonsense!

or go smoke a rock and be a useless burn out...

Welcome to ignore, RACIST pig. Go get fitted for a new white sheet and hood.

[bloodyminded]

I know a person that knows a person taht knows a person, that has a cousin who knows someone that... blah blah blah

jesus! learn how to argue for god's sake... don't bring in some lame unverifiable anecdotal nonsense!

Do you mean like the use of anecdotal information about all the feminists and leftists you talked with, and who exposed their dishonesty to you?

That sort of lame unverifiable anecdotal nonsense?

[M.Dancer]

racism isn't illegal by the way... so on what grounds could you possibly prevent them from adopting?

Racism ain't illegal, nor is alcoholism...nor gambling...or being poor....yet alcoholicism would disqualify you, so would being a compulsive gambler or even being a certified moron.

If we put winos and gamblers on the bottom of the prefered adoptive parent list, why not put other sociual deviants on the do not give children to list....? Racists and other social misfits need not apply.

[Moonlight Graham]

I'm pretty sure Lictor would be unable to adopt children in Sicily then?

[lictor616]

Racism ain't illegal, nor is alcoholism...nor gambling...or being poor....yet alcoholicism would disqualify you, so would being a compulsive gambler or even being a certified moron.

If we put winos and gamblers on the bottom of the prefered adoptive parent list, why not put other sociual deviants on the do not give children to list....? Racists and other social misfits need not apply.

Racism is not a faculty that can prevent one from being a good bread earner or automatically cast one as a social degenerate, most people are perfectly able to hide their racism. I'm sure all of you have many anecdotal instances of very normal relatives or friends being racist from time to time...

Also with what we know about the racial consciousness of say minorities: of blacks for instance and their racial advocacy, well then by your logic you'd be disqualifying many blacks as "social misfits" unfit for rearing children.

Like that beloved Kamau Rashidi Kambon the racist ethnocentric "professor" at Howard U, who plainly said that blacks sould exterminate white people "off a da face of da planet"... he gets to keep his kids?

interesting...