Debunking Abortion Myths

[Mr.Canada]

Sure, and maybe we should have a discussion about policies to deal with late term abortions (and only late term abortions).

But late term abortions are rare (in the relative sense) and Somerville is being intellectually dishonest by ignoring this part of the argument.

By focusing on the absolute number of late term abortions and ignoring the comparison to total abortions she is purposefully being dishonest about what the pro-choice claim is (i.e. relatively rare).

Murder is relatively rare as well as are rapes and other henious crimes but we have laws on the books for those with open discussion so why not late term abortions.

[WIP]

Morals are subjective at best, laughable most of the time...I reject moral obligation as legally non binding.

And yet you think nothing of applying your moral obligations to women who are considering having an abortion! Moral obligations become legally binding when a government uses them to make laws.

[M.Dancer]

And yet you think nothing of applying your moral obligations to women who are considering having an abortion! Moral obligations become legally binding when a government uses them to make laws.

Do you see a difference between a supposed moral obligation (to pay for someone's choices) and a law that defines when and how a pregancy can be terminated?

[GostHacked]

Do you see a difference between a supposed moral obligation (to pay for someone's choices) and a law that defines when and how a pregancy can be terminated?

So you'd be ok with late term abortions (as rare as they are) as long as the woman getting the abortion pays for the procedure herself?

[Guest American Woman]

So you'd be ok with late term abortions (as rare as they are) as long as the woman getting the abortion pays for the procedure herself?

People in a society with national healthcare are paying for other people's choices all the time. Abortion is hardly a unique in that regard.

[dre]

The bottom line is, as much as I dont like the idea of abortion, the idea of having ideological WOMB GOONS make reproductive decisions for women is a lot worse.

If you want less abortion, then you should focus your efforts on educating women about their choices at an early age, and providing support for young mothers. I always find it ironic that the same folks who want to force women into pregnancy, are the EXACT SAME FOLKS that whine about having to pay for social support services unprepared mothers often need to raise these children, and then the ones to scream the LOUDEST when children from broken families become a problem (crime, drug use, etc).

[Smallc]

For example, many roads in Canada are two-lane (eg. Highway 17 north of Ottawa).

That's because on the majority of two lane highways, the traffic counts don't justify anything more.

[WIP]

Do you see a difference between a supposed moral obligation (to pay for someone's choices) and a law that defines when and how a pregancy can be terminated?

NO! Because the state is taking away the choice of whether or not to bring another baby into this world. So the state has assumed the obligation of making sure that the child is cared for afterward.

[M.Dancer]

NO! Because the state is taking away the choice of whether or not to bring another baby into this world. So the state has assumed the obligation of making sure that the child is cared for afterward.

Okay your logic is overwhelming. Since the state has taken on for itself the obligation of providing for the care of welfare children, you can have no objection to the implementation of reasonable restrictions to abortions.

[WIP]

Okay your logic is overwhelming. Since the state has taken on for itself the obligation of providing for the care of welfare children, you can have no objection to the implementation of reasonable restrictions to abortions.

It eliminates one major objection to mandatory pregnancy if the state will show concern for the "sanctity of life" even after the baby is born; but there still is that nagging problem of privacy rights. A woman who has to spend nine months pregnant, is not going to have the same choices available and freedom of movement as if she was not pregnant...not to mention the health risks. If the state feels the need to impose it's will on a private citizen, then there needs to be a reason based on protecting the general welfare of society....such as refusing abortions for the purpose of sex-selection, that can dangerously skew overall population demographics.

[M.Dancer]

It eliminates one major objection to mandatory pregnancy if the state will show concern for the "sanctity of life" even after the baby is born; but there still is that nagging problem of privacy rights. A woman who has to spend nine months pregnant, is not going to have the same choices available and freedom of movement as if she was not pregnant...not to mention the health risks. If the state feels the need to impose it's will on a private citizen, then there needs to be a reason based on protecting the general welfare of society....such as refusing abortions for the purpose of sex-selection, that can dangerously skew overall population demographics.

mandatory pregnancy

You think people are forced to become pregnant?

....such as refusing abortions for the purpose of sex-selection, that can dangerously skew overall population demographics.

Good luck with that...

Personally, I think there should be reasoned restraints...abortions after 20 weeks should have a valid medical necessity. And any abortion that isn't for a medical necessity should be paid for by the user, not the state.

[Oleg Bach]

Heard and idiot on CNN talk about a Canadian priest that was just nominated by the Vatican to a higher more important post - I also heard some CBC type say "How could they even think of appointing this man (bad man) - who said that abortion was "a moral crime" - where do they find these journalists - Anti - abortion is Catholic doctrine - the journalist seemed stunned that anyone in this politically correct world would get a promotion who was anti-abortion - what an idiot.

[lukin]

Heard and idiot on CNN talk about a Canadian priest that was just nominated by the Vatican to a higher more important post - I also heard some CBC type say "How could they even think of appointing this man (bad man) - who said that abortion was "a moral crime" - where do they find these journalists - Anti - abortion is Catholic doctrine - the journalist seemed stunned that anyone in this politically correct world would get a promotion who was anti-abortion - what an idiot.

That's why fewer and fewer people are watching CNN.

[WIP]

You think people are forced to become pregnant?

Laws against abortion will certainly force continuing pregnancy!

Good luck with that...

I wanted to provide a real example of where societal needs may require interfering with personal autonomy.

Personally, I think there should be reasoned restraints...abortions after 20 weeks should have a valid medical necessity.

And of course, there are relatively few abortions after that 20 week period of gestation, because a normal clinic abortion is not possible. Aside from some of these tragic cases of underage girls who either didn't understand or tried to hide the fact that they were pregnant, most women who seek a late term abortion, intended to have a baby, but are seeking an abortion for medical health reasons.

And any abortion that isn't for a medical necessity should be paid for by the user, not the state.

So if it's a pregnant young woman of modest means who can't afford to pay for an abortion, she brings a baby she didn't want into this world....how does that help us again?

The defunding of abortion is a ruse by the right to close off this option to poor women and girls, while middle class and higher will still be able to take care of the "problem." In some U.S. states where there is no funding for abortion, and abortion clinics have been hounded out of existence, many women who claim to be pro life, admit that they have had at least one abortion during their lives. For some reason they consider their circumstances unique! And they or their families had the means to get them to a state that had a functioning abortion clinic. My suspicions are that the so called pro life movements in this country or the U.S., would not want to push for a blanket ban on abortion, because the present status quo gives them everything they want! They can rail about the sin of abortion and those poor, defenseless unborn babies -- while the upper middle class that supports the religious right and fiscal right wing, still have that abortion option available, if necessary.

On the subject of choice, here's an interesting new wrinkle in this old problem that was featured in an ABC News story:

Men Who Abuse Their Partners Often Sabotage Birth Control, New Research Suggests

Nearly 20 percent of women at family clinics across northern California reported that their partner tried to coerce them into having a child, sometimes using methods such as poking holes in condoms or flushing birth control pills down the toilet, Dr. Elizabeth Miller of the University of California Davis and colleagues reported online in the journal Contraception.

It's also a way for males to make their partners more dependent on them, according to Amy Bonomi of Ohio State University.

"Women in abusive relationships are sometimes forced to bear children as a means to keep them dependent on their partner and sometimes as a means to justify additional -- and sometimes more severe -- abuse," Bonomi said.

Miller said pregnancy coercion often consists of verbal threats, demands, and physical violence to pressure women to become pregnant. Alternatively, some men sabotage birth control by flushing pills down the toilet, breaking condoms, or removing contraceptive rings and patches.

"We've known for a long time in the domestic violence world that partner violence and unintended pregnancy are connected; we just haven't understood the mechanisms," Miller said.

And then all the god-fearing prolifers, bibles in hand, wonder why there are women out there seeking abortions!

[M.Dancer]

Men Who Abuse Their Partners Often Sabotage Birth Control, New Research Suggests

I bet the real incidence of this is even less than post 20 week abortions....but apparently it is note worthy just the same...

[Oleg Bach]

That's why fewer and fewer people are watching CNN.

You have latin rats like Rich Sanchez - who basically want to dismantle America and make it part of that failed state called Mexico - where they murder 27 thousand people in one year...and you have those cheeze ball woman ...with the 300 dollar hair cuts who smile as they report on the collapse of civilization....

Not to mention that Israeli bitch Barbara Star..the Pentagon reporter ...who is as ugly as a male foot ball player who really enjoys the fact that she has Israeli influence over the American military ...and that chick called Bash . who looks like an inbred troll...who's parents married their first cousins because they wanted to keep the race pure...and that lady that looks like a vomiting barby doll...who is a former security advisor to Bush - she can barely advice a bullemic girl on how to vomit with accuracy.............I turn on CNN and say to myself - I wonder what the stupid evil people are doing....? It gives me confidence when I compare the low level mind set of these broadcasters..

And to take the remarks of that stool pigeon Fadd Allen seriously in regards to the BP attack ...give me a break _ I love CNN - I love seeing through it and the worst parts of lieing america.