G8, G20 cost 1Billion

[nicky10013]

Perhaps you've forgotten about Toronto's perennial and professional mob protesters: OCAP.

Despite what you may think about their cause, they don't riot.

[Smallc]

Funny, doing a quick search I couldn't find anything related to the PBO and spending.

Well then you didn't look very hard at all. Many journalists have talked to Kevin Page, and though the report hasn't been released, he gave then the gist of what it would say. And in this case, security is not a tired excuse. I want all the costs to be released...after the thing takes place. I want the PBO to do an analysis...now...and they are.

[g_bambino]

Despite what you may think about their cause, they don't riot.

Uh huh...

The destruction of the Ontario Finance Minister's constituency office yesterday is the "first skirmish in what will be an all-out war" against the provincial government, a controversial poverty activist group has warned.

About 20 members of the Ontario Coalition Against Poverty barged into the Whitby office of Jim Flaherty, overturning and destroying office equipment, scribbling obscenities on walls and throwing furniture on to the street.

"Jim Flaherty is not fit to govern and we evicted him," Lana Rabkin, a member of OCAP said yesterday. "I think it would be a mistake to see today's act as an act of vandalism. Today we say enough and this campaign is going to escalate..."

Poverty activists vow to increase civil disobedience

John Clarke, head of the Ontario Coalition Against Poverty, was arrested Friday. Clarke is charged with taking part in a riot, and encouraging others to commit an indictable offence... A group of demonstrators threw bricks, Molotov cocktails, and paint bombs at police...

More arrests over Queen's Park anti-poverty riot

[nicky10013]

Uh huh...

And the storming of an office requires the use of a sound cannon how?

[nicky10013]

Well then you didn't look very hard at all. Many journalists have talked to Kevin Page, and though the report hasn't been released, he gave then the gist of what it would say. And in this case, security is not a tired excuse. I want all the costs to be released...after the thing takes place. I want the PBO to do an analysis...now...and they are.

I looked perfectly adequately. It doesn't alleviate the concerns that my fellow residents and I have.

[Smallc]

I looked perfectly adequately. It doesn't alleviate the concerns that my fellow residents and I have.

Well then what will alleviate your concerns? Nothing, I would imagine.

[nicky10013]

Well then what will alleviate your concerns? Nothing, I would imagine.

No, because the money has been spent and they can't build a time machine to go back to do it in the year-year and half time frame which they need to plan such a conference rather than the 6 months they actually did it in. The thing is already bungled and that's that. Furthermore, if they can't solve the problem why SHOULD my concerns be alleviated? Are our expectations that low?

[Smallc]

Security for the summit is going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars, no matter what. That's the reality of the situation....and other G8 summits have been planned even more hastily. There's no actual evidence of bungling.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Smallc

[nicky10013]

Security for the summit is going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars, no matter what. That's the reality of the situation....and other G8 summits have been planned even more hastily. There's no actual evidence of bungling.

There are hundreds of businesses that are shutting down simply because they can't get the documents that the government promised would be provided which is going to cost local merchants and business millions of dollars which should be enough for anyone. The protest sites around the city have been moved around because no one agree on. Despite the promise to the contrary, Union Station which is the hub for trains and busses in the GTA as well as the one of if not the largest VIA hub in the country is being shut down to the proximity of Union Station to the convention centre stranding people who have already bought tickets. They never thought that the summit coincides with the start of PRIDE week which brings in TONNES of tourist dollars and now half the city, especially the entertainment district is going to be off limits.

I could go on.

Edited June 15, 2010 by nicky10013

[g_bambino]

And the storming of an office requires the use of a sound cannon how?

It makes the people storming the office go away?

I don't know what they're going to do with the thing; I was just being (somewhat) facetious about using it on OCAP.

[Smallc]

VIA will still operate, so the people won't be stranded. They'll just have to catch the bus. Also, there are, from what I see, very few businesses actually shutting down. There are many moving, but there are very few that will actually cease operations.

[g_bambino]

Security for the summit is going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars, no matter what.

A couple of hundred, sure. But nine hundred!? It's not the media centre with the lake everyone keeps getting all worked up about that bothers me; it doesn't at all, because it's really quite unimportant. It's the 900+ million for security that I can't get my head around. Why for this summit is it costing so much more than all the others?

[August1991]

Everyone seems to agree the vast majority of the money was for security. So what should they have done? Told the security experts they didn't need the things they wanted?

That's exactly what Harper and Flaherty should have said to these security/logistics bureaucrats who will spend a fortune given half a chance. They love the bells and whistles.

Well, Harper may claim that he was just following the advice of these secuirty experts but it is Harper (not the bureaucrats) who will be out of a job because of this fiasco.

Fiscally responsible people wait to hear what the auditors say before jumping up and down screaming in anger.

The auditors will simply say that services were delivered for the money spent. Ordinary small-c Canadians object to the decision to spend the money.

Harper has lost his base on this one and if you can't see that Argus, you're hopelessly out of touch in Ottawa la-la-land.

I'm not talking about the media centre, which, quite frankly, in a $280B budget, is inconsequential.....

That argument bothers me too. A dollar is a dollar is a dollar. As Everett Dirksen famously said, "A billion here and a billion there and pretty soon your talking about real money."

Canadians are perfectly justified to focus on teh $2 million fake lake. $2 million is alot of money. People buy lottery tickets hoping to win that much and retire.

Security for the summit is going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars, no matter what.

There's a difference between "hundreds of millions" and $930 million.

If these summits had a budget of $300 million, I would groan but then accept it. But $930 million is way over the top.

----

Let's wait and see the poll numbers over the next few weeks. (First indications are that the Tories are down. I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the mid-20s because of this.) Harper's problem is that the summit occurs in late June so this boondoggle story is going to dominate the news for the next two weeks. His best hope is that by September, another crisis will dominate headlines.

But as I have argued above, Harper and Flaherty have now lost all credibility when it comes to cutting government spending. As soon as they propose some initiative to cut as much as $10 million from the federal budget for Scheme A, opponents will immediately point out that Harper prefers a $1 billion summit to whatever Scheme A is. This summit is going to be an albatross around their necks going into the next election.

What the devil were these two thinking when they approved this budget?

Edited June 15, 2010 by August1991

[nicky10013]

VIA will still operate, so the people won't be stranded. They'll just have to catch the bus. Also, there are, from what I see, very few businesses actually shutting down. There are many moving, but there are very few that will actually cease operations.

The downtown core is shutting down. If you consider that only a few businesses then I don't know what to say. As for VIA, they're not operating trains. My friend was going to Montreal. Not to be. His tickets were cancelled due to the G20. As for buses, nothing downtown. People could get on the subway but considering it runs directly beneath the convention centre...

Edited June 15, 2010 by nicky10013

[William Ashley]

suprising

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/2010/06/14/14378686.html

1 in 10 all the way from calgary? startling.

[nicky10013]

suprising

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/2010/06/14/14378686.html

1 in 10 all the way from calgary? startling.

God that's going to make a lot of westerners feel good. Calgary cops out there showing the liberal hippie socialists from Toronto what's what.

[Smallc]

A couple of hundred, sure. But nine hundred!? It's not the media centre with the lake everyone keeps getting all worked up about that bothers me; it doesn't at all, because it's really quite unimportant. It's the 900+ million for security that I can't get my head around. Why for this summit is it costing so much more than all the others?

It's not really costing much more than all the others though. Japan spent almost $400M on the G8. Multiply that by 2, and put half of it in Toronto.....mystery solved.

[Smallc]

The downtown core is shutting down. If you consider that only a few businesses then I don't know what to say. As for VIA, they're not operating trains.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/06/04/via-g20-union-station451.html

Ummmm....no.

[nicky10013]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/06/04/via-g20-union-station451.html

Ummmm....no.

I guess you didn't read the first line of the article.

Via Rail trains will bypass Toronto's Union Station during part of the G20 summit week in a move that will inconvenience thousands of riders.

Not to be toronto-centric, but wouldn't you think that shutting down service to Canada's largest city would be kind of a big deal?

[nicky10013]

It's not really costing much more than all the others though. Japan spent almost $400M on the G8. Multiply that by 2, and put half of it in Toronto.....mystery solved.

That's INCREDIBLY weak math. The meeting was in a city like Tokyo not in town Huntsville, so multiplying it by two just doesn't cut it.

[Smallc]

I guess you didn't read the first line of the article.

I guess you didn't read past the first line.

[Smallc]

That's INCREDIBLY weak math. The meeting was in a city like Tokyo not in town Huntsville, so multiplying it by two just doesn't cut it.

The meeting was in a town of 10K people.....like the G8 always is.

[nicky10013]

The meeting was in a town of 10K people.....like the G8 always is.

Uhhhh, no. It was in Tokyo.

[Smallc]

Uhhhh, no. It was in Tokyo.

No, it wasn't.

[nicky10013]

No, it wasn't.

Wait, my bad, it was in Toyako. At 2 in the morning you can't blame me for making that mistake