Why the hate for harper?

[Keepitsimple]

Just to be a bit of a s**t disturber this morning.....there's a lot of talk about coalitions and invariably, it's about the Left getting together to beat those pesky Conservatives. I would put to you that the overwhelming number of new Canadians are Conservative by nature or culture. Perhaps they don't necessarily all vote that way - but they can easier be swayed by Conservative tenets. So we have a natural "creeping " (not creepy) Conservatism going on. Add to that Harper's very slow tugging of the party towards the Center. But here's the kicker......it's not beyond the realm of possibility for a new right wing party to pop out of the woodwork as Harper moves to the center.....we'll call it the Wingnut Right Party to offset the Wingnut Left (the NDP). We're really talking 10 or 15 years down the road but I guess in the final analysis, you have to take a reading on whether Canada is more of a Conservative country or more Liberal - and I don't mean the actual parties. There seems to be a fundamental shift in Global economics toward Conservative Fiscal policy. In Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland...their Leftist social policies have brought them to the brink of bankruptcy so there will be a natural rightward shift back towards the Center. Canada is watching the world and I think the times are such that Conservatism is more and more the default credo - in spite of its media-driven growing pains.

And for those that seem to dislike Harper for his very private evangelical faith - be comforted by the fact that one of the driving factors of evangelicism is to help the less fortunate and show compassion for your fellow man. Let's not forget that William Lyon Mackenzie King, a Liberal PM for 21 years - talked to spirits including his dead mother, Leonardo Da Vinci and several of his dogs. Tommy Douglas was a Baptist Minister. Let the poor guy go to a Church of his choosing once in a while.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Keepitsimple

[DrGreenthumb]

There seems to be a fundamental shift in Global economics toward Conservative Fiscal policy. In Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland...their Leftist social policies have brought them to the brink of bankruptcy so there will be a natural rightward shift .

You are kidding right? It is Right wing policies that caused the financial crisis, like deregulation of banks for instance. The reason everyone is going bankrupt is because the very rich have stolen all the money.

[Shady]

You are kidding right? It is Right wing policies that caused the financial crisis, like deregulation of banks for instance. The reason everyone is going bankrupt is because the very rich have stolen all the money.

That's complete nonsense. The financial crisis was caused by socialist policies. Policies that lowered lending standards, and pressured banks to grant loans and mortgages to people who otherwise couldn't qualify. Free money for poor people that can't pay it back isn't a right wing policy.

[ToadBrother]

That's complete nonsense. The financial crisis was caused by socialist policies. Policies that lowered lending standards, and pressured banks to grant loans and mortgages to people who otherwise couldn't qualify. Free money for poor people that can't pay it back isn't a right wing policy.

Does it have to be an either-or? To my mind, the Left and the Right set into motion policies that lead to the collapse. In short, there's no one who wasn't to blame, right down to the people who took on mortgages they must have known were beyond their means.

[ToadBrother]

And for those that seem to dislike Harper for his very private evangelical faith - be comforted by the fact that one of the driving factors of evangelicism is to help the less fortunate and show compassion for your fellow man. Let's not forget that William Lyon Mackenzie King, a Liberal PM for 21 years - talked to spirits including his dead mother, Leonardo Da Vinci and several of his dogs. Tommy Douglas was a Baptist Minister. Let the poor guy go to a Church of his choosing once in a while.

And as long as it stays in his church, I don't care. It's when, for instance, a Creationist gains control of science funding, I get concerned.

[Keepitsimple]

You are kidding right? It is Right wing policies that caused the financial crisis, like deregulation of banks for instance. The reason everyone is going bankrupt is because the very rich have stolen all the money.

No - I'm not kidding. I agree with you to some extent but just so we're clear - you should know that it was Bill Clinton's administration that led and presided over de-regulation. You can find the rich on both sides of the political spectrum and it was sheer greed that fuelled the current situation. So regardless, it's time to tighten everyone's belts. The Financial crisis did serve to expose the unsustainability of some of the European countries' socialist policies. Retiring at 50 with full pensions. Bonuses for coming to work. etc, etc. Productivity in many of those countries is non-existent. That's why the Germans were so ticked off at having to bail out Greece - and maybe others......because in Germany, fairness and productivity go hand-in-hand.

There is no shortage of blame for the financial debacle rocking America and scaring the world. And among the names popping up in the pathology of this vicious malaise are former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan, former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, former Texas Senator Phil Gramm, and former President Bill Clinton. It was on their watch that the banking strictures of the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act were dismantled. Some critics say tearing down the barriers between commercial and investment banks contributed to the current crisis because it allowed commercial banks such as Citigroup © to trade mortgage-backed securities. In fact, former Citi CEO Sandy Weill led the fight for deregulation.

Link: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_40/b4102000409948.htm

[Jack Weber]

Does it have to be an either-or? To my mind, the Left and the Right set into motion policies that lead to the collapse. In short, there's no one who wasn't to blame, right down to the people who took on mortgages they must have known were beyond their means.

It has to be when one is a two dimensional ideologue....

[wyly]

And as long as it stays in his church, I don't care. It's when, for instance, a Creationist gains control of science funding, I get concerned.

do you mean Gary Goodyear our Minister of Science who refuses to answer whether he accepts Darwinian evolution because it's too personal and irrelevant...

[Jack Weber]

do you mean Gary Goodyear our Minister of Science who refuses to answer whether he accepts Darwinian evolution because it's too personal and irrelevant...

You do realize that Darwinian THEORIES of evolution where at the heart of the ethos' of Marxism and Fascism?

[wyly]

You do realize that Darwinian THEORIES of evolution where at the heart of the ethos' of Marxism and Fascism?

did you know that Climate Change is at the heart of Republican and Tea Party conspiracy theories...

[Jack Weber]

did you know that Climate Change is at the heart of Republican and Tea Party conspiracy theories...

hehehehe....

Touché...

[jbg]

I thought I was pretty clear that I take issue with Quebec slapping the rest of Canada in the face while it's more than willing to take their money year after year, and in fact, demand more. The Conservatives aren't the only federal party to choose from.

While generally I like FPTP it does create a problem in Quebec, since single-issue parties such as the Bloc can and often do wind up with a lot of ridings. The Bloc has no constructive agenda for Canada and its members should not be allowed to take the oath or sit in the HOC since they are against rather than for their country and the Queen.

I believe that uniting the right was one of the best things to happen in Canadian politics in years because it gives Canadians a viable alternative to the Liberals - neither the NDP nor the Bloc will form a government.

That was critically important. Otherwise you were a one-party state.

I'm for a united country with a strong sense of national identity, clearly defined culture, common history and federal political parties that run in elections across the country. In other words, I'm for what keeps the country healthy. That means that I'm opposed to things that would threaten that such as separatism and multiculturalism.

I wish more politicians would speak that truth to power, since the prevailing forces since 1968 have been towards entropy; giving fringe cultures and groups, such as separatists, a much larger place at the table than is appropriate.

They call it a big tent, which is what you need to win elections. Dion was a far left environmental nut, but he belonged to the same party as a fiscal conservative like Martin.

The same holds true with the US btw. You like to go on about the Republicans, but the truth is that there is a lot of diversity in opinions within both the Democrat and Republican parties.

You've nailed it as far as the States goes. Remember though the Democratic and Republican parties are national, state and in many cases local. The NDP is the only party that is both a provincial and federal party. Thus, Republicans that are elected in "blue states" such as New York or California are quite far to the left of "red state" Republicans. Even Ronald Reagan was an ex-Democrat when elected and still had quite a liberal constituency when elected governor of California.

There is no center party. The Conservatives are right of center, the Liberals are left of center and the NDP is far left of center. The Liberals and Conservatives do tend to move towards the center to gain support however, save when the Liberals try to take votes away from the NDP.

I would argue that both the Liberals and Conservatives crowd the center. But then again I know little or nothing about Canada.

Also, either you're forgetting or you're ignorant of the fact that the Conservatives won the most seats in Canadian history under Brian Mulroney.

That was the Progressive Conservatives, which had as a large component much of the current Bloc. That's not an "apples to apples" comparison.

[ToadBrother]

You do realize that Darwinian THEORIES of evolution where at the heart of the ethos' of Marxism and Fascism?

They were? Wow! That's amazing, considering the Communist Manifesto was released in 1848 and the first edition of Origin of the Species wasn't published until 1859. That Marx, what an incredible guy, time traveler on top of economic and political theorist.

As to Fascism, it's hard to see how Darwin had anything to do with that. Nazism, in particular, pretty much advocated a diametrically opposed position to Darwin's theory. Evolutionary theory says variation is an advantage. The Nazi race theorists thought variation bad, that there was an idealized man, and mixing with lower races weakened the Aryan race.

Or, to put it more bluntly, you're full of crap, but even if you weren't, evolution is a scientific theory. How it is used by politicians and political theorists is hardly a condemnation of the theory. Trying to damn a theory by association, particularly with such obviously false claims, seems pretty odd to me. Can you explain yourself a little further as to why you would do such a thing.

[Shady]

Does it have to be an either-or? To my mind, the Left and the Right set into motion policies that lead to the collapse.

No, but it has to be the truth. The truth is, deregulation (signed into law by President Clinton) wouldn't have any negative economic impact if the mortgages banks held were valid. However, even if deregulation hadn't taken place, these invalid mortgages, pushed by socialist policies, would have negatively effected the economy regardless. As soon as interest rates began to rise, even just a little. That's fact. Sometimes facts can be stubborn things.

[Jack Weber]

They were? Wow! That's amazing, considering the Communist Manifesto was released in 1848 and the first edition of Origin of the Species wasn't published until 1859. That Marx, what an incredible guy, time traveler on top of economic and political theorist.

As to Fascism, it's hard to see how Darwin had anything to do with that. Nazism, in particular, pretty much advocated a diametrically opposed position to Darwin's theory. Evolutionary theory says variation is an advantage. The Nazi race theorists thought variation bad, that there was an idealized man, and mixing with lower races weakened the Aryan race.

Or, to put it more bluntly, you're full of crap, but even if you weren't, evolution is a scientific theory. How it is used by politicians and political theorists is hardly a condemnation of the theory. Trying to damn a theory by association, particularly with such obviously false claims, seems pretty odd to me. Can you explain yourself a little further as to why you would do such a thing.

Full of crap,indeed....

http://www.articlebase.com/religion-articles/scourges-stemming-from-darwinism-communism-fascism-satanism-and-terror-i-967603.html

http://darwinistdictators.com/articles/thebloodyalliancedarwinismfascismcommunism.html

[ToadBrother]

Full of crap,indeed....

http://www.articlebase.com/religion-articles/scourges-stemming-from-darwinism-communism-fascism-satanism-and-terror-i-967603.html

http://darwinistdictators.com/articles/thebloodyalliancedarwinismfascismcommunism.html

You can't be serious. You must have frantically searched Google for anything. What's next, quotes from the Discovery Institute?

I do love a guy who quotes a site called darwinistdicators.com.

You're still full of crap, and those sites of full of crap. Hitler was no evolutionist and most of Marx's theories were formulated nearly two decades before Darwin published.

For good measure:

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA006_1.html

Put it in your pipe and smoke it.

Edited May 20, 2010 by ToadBrother

[Sir Bandelot]

They followed eugenics.

[Jack Weber]

They followed eugenics.

And Adolph Hitler,the great Divine Rightist,carried around books written by Helena Blavatsky...

And was a memeber of the Thule Society...

Edited May 20, 2010 by Jack Weber

[Argus]

...I told ya it was liberating...I've 8 or 9 on my bannished list and the forum has become a much better place for me...

Yes, you only get to talk to yourself, and you don't suffer having to read people who disagree with you.

[Argus]

PR of course...and whats modern about a 2 party system?...if we need ten parties to reflect Canadians politcal leanings so be it, it may get messy but thats democracy at it's best...

Rule by committee might be democracy at its best but it's government at its worst, with endless deal-making and vote buying and never a balanced budget in sight.

[Argus]

The only reason Harper continues to get elected is because Christian fundamentalist groups continue to vote him praying as hard as they can for a majority so that Harper will have the power to strip Homosexuals and women of their hard faught for rights. !

Hysterical drivel.

[Keepitsimple]

Rule by committee might be democracy at its best but it's government at its worst, with endless deal-making and vote buying and never a balanced budget in sight.

Bingo.

[PIK]

If I was a liberal I would be embarressed by dr greenthumb.But at least harper walks the walk, he at least play music with musicans, not just hang on to them like the last 2 liberal leaders.

[jbg]

The only reason Harper continues to get elected is because Christian fundamentalist groups continue to vote him praying as hard as they can for a majority so that Harper will have the power to strip Homosexuals and women of their hard faught fought for rights.

Hysterical drivel.

What's hysterical is how funny the good doctor is. Edited May 20, 2010 by jbg

[Sir Bandelot]

at least harper walks the walk, he at least play music with musicans, not just hang on to them like the last 2 liberal leaders.

Now there's a useful attribute... no not really.

As a musician I don't think he's that good anyway. His singing is quite bad. He'd be better off sticking to anecdotes about hockey players.

The only reason Harper stays in power is that there's no one else out there who's as good a leader as him. Much to the detriment of the other parties, and all Canadians.