Alta4ever Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 Harper DOESN't have a majority. A majority would indicate that a majority of the population supported the government, thus giving it the right to govern accordingly. A minority government indicates that the majority of the population does NOT support the governing party and do not trust them to govern without the checks and balances of strong opposition watching their every move. Your complaints are therefore meaningless. Aside from the rest of the garbage in you post, its been a long time since a majority was won where more then 50% voted for one party. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
DrGreenthumb Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) Wyly......I pointed out that the Alliance Church has many, if not all of the same beliefs as the Roman Catholic Church. Yet you choose to discriminate against that Church as fanatical and yet agree that there's nothing wrong with Roman Catholicism. How do you justify such a position? One of the central tenets of Canada's "evangelicals" - a very broad term - is that they help the less fortunate. The Church of the Salvation Army falls under the umbrella of Evangelicism. Do you also consider the Salvation Army as radical? Do you think your Canadians really want no part of the Salvation Army? Or does your shallowness simply reveal that you hate the Alliance Church because Harper attends every now and then? The catholics are not bible literalists, and most catholics do not really give a rat's ass what the church has to say about social issues. Most catholics use birth control even though the pope forbids it. Missionary Alliance church members are a fanatical group who lets the bible trump scientific fact. They believe the world is only 6000 years old for example. If you can get Harper to state publicly that he believes that the world has existed for hundreds of thousandsof years, I might reconsider my opinion of his religion induced blindness. Edited May 20, 2010 by DrGreenthumb Quote
waldo Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 I recommend you follow the rest of us who long ago put B-C on ignore. It is absolute heaven to do so....I'm so glad that I did. HEHEHEHE...I think I started a trend!!! went for the two-fer... a winning exacta of B_C & Shady to grace my ignoramus list... quite refreshing - indeed! Quote
Jack Weber Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) went for the two-fer... a winning exacta of B_C & Shady to grace my ignoramus list... quite refreshing - indeed! It really "destupidifies" the whole place,does'nt it? By the way....What was the payout on the exacta? Edited May 20, 2010 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
wyly Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) The catholics are not bible literalists, and most catholics do not really give a rat's ass what the church has to say about social issues. Most catholics use birth control even though the pope forbids it. yup that's been my experience...catholics I've known over the years are spread across the political spectrum, Conservative, Liberal and NDP...these fundy christian nutters seem to only come in one stripe, hard core far right...Missionary Alliance church members are a fanatical group who lets the bible trump scientific fact. They believe the world is only 6000 years old for example. If you can get Harper to state publicly that he believes that the world has existed for hundreds of thousandsof years, I might reconsider my opinion of his religion induced blindness. which is why he won't answer any questions about his beliefs he knows what happened to Stockwell Day when he revealed his weird ideas... he's a certified member of the tinfoil hat crowd...apocalypse/Armageddon/creationism/man living with dinosaurs on a 6K year old planet...and belongs to a church that wants to convert all of us to save us from a burning hell...ya just the sort of nutter I want having a majority government... Edited May 20, 2010 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
waldo Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 Please note that Stephen Harper actually attended the United Church ( you know the NDP of prayer)until he went out west.and it is written that the, "charged 1988 decision by the United Church General Council to approve the ordination of homosexuals", was what instigated Harper's father's defection from the United Church... as the father goes, so goes the son! Apparently, you can thank Preston Manning and Diane Ablonczy, for Harper's "redemption" and call to the evangelical Alliance Church.Do you know of any Muslim, Sikh or Hindu temples which approve of homosexuality or which would allow any homosexuals to lead their congregations in prayers? I thought I was offering relevant follow-up to the United Church reference... probable insight into the motivation of Harper in following his father's defection. There certainly was quite a defection across the United Church ranks when it chose to ordain gay ministers. Now... in your case, if you're looking for a temple (Muslim, Sikh or Hindu) that looks kindly on your persuasion, I'm sorry, I can't help there - but good luck in your search. Quote
wyly Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 went for the two-fer... a winning exacta of B_C & Shady to grace my ignoramus list... quite refreshing - indeed! ...I told ya it was liberating...I've 8 or 9 on my bannished list and the forum has become a much better place for me... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
justme Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 A majority would indicate that a majority of the population supported the government, thus giving it the right to govern accordingly. A minority government indicates that the majority of the population does NOT support the governing party and do not trust them to govern without the checks and balances of strong opposition watching their every move. A majority government means that one party has the majority of the seats, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the majority of the population voted for or supports that party - see Chretien's 97 win for an example. Minority governments are the result of the vote being split among four parties. People who vote Bloc don't support Canadian federal parties period, and that takes away a significant number of the seats from federal parties. It's disgusting that a province that benefits, at the expense of others, from multi-billion dollar transfer payments every year, yet refuses to vote for political parties that represent the nation as a whole. By voting Bloc, they're essentially saying that they're happy to use Canadians, but don't want to be part of Canada. Also, to be consistent, you'd have to apply your argument about minority governments not only to Harper, but to Pearson and Martin as well. Quote “The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities.” –Theodore Roosevelt “The symptoms of dying civilizations are well known. The death of faith; the degeneration of morals; contempt for the old values; collapse of the culture; paralysis of the will, but the two certain symptoms that a civilization has begun to die are a declining population and foreign invasions no longer resisted.” – Patrick J. Buchanan "Liberalism is the ideology of Western suicide. Its ideas pursued to their logical end will prove fatal to the West." -- James Burnham
wyly Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 Therefore, the point still stands: the people who complain about the percentage of the vote that the Conservatives got are hypocrites. who said it only applies to conservatives???? Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Jack Weber Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 I thought I was offering relevant follow-up to the United Church reference... probable insight into the motivation of Harper in following his father's defection. There certainly was quite a defection across the United Church ranks when it chose to ordain gay ministers. Now... in your case, if you're looking for a temple (Muslim, Sikh or Hindu) that looks kindly on your persuasion, I'm sorry, I can't help there - but good luck in your search. Uh...Waldo...I left the United Church for the same reason...It's not the only reason,but it was a major determining factor. By the way,I'm no fan of theocrats,or Mr.Harper... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 he's a christian fundamentalist fanatic something not part of our culture it's not even part of our Conservative governments of our past, he is not popular now nor will he ever be in the future...in hindsight Canadians will wonder how we could ever elect him as PM...well I guess the majority of us haven't elected him or his party of fanatics, he govern's only because of a f****d up electoral system... The reason Mr.Harper,and his party,gets elected is because no opposition party has been able to galvanize the public around its leaders OR any of their policies. Harper rules not because he is terribly loved East of the Manitoba border,but because the opposition allows for this almost by default... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
wyly Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) A majority government means that one party has the majority of the seats, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the majority of the population voted for or supports that party - see Chretien's 97 win for an example. Minority governments are the result of the vote being split among four parties. the electoral system is f*****... minority or majority is irrelevant, the % of the votes cast does not reflect the number of seats...People who vote Bloc don't support Canadian federal parties period, and that takes away a significant number of the seats from federal parties. It's disgusting that a province that benefits, at the expense of others, from multi-billion dollar transfer payments every yearAlso, to be consistent, you'd have to apply your argument about minority governments not only to Harper, but to Pearson and Martin as well. we live in a semi-democracy the people of Quebec can vote as they choose what issues do you have with democracy is it not being the conservatives preferred way?yet refuses to vote for political parties that represent the nation as a whole. By voting Bloc, they're essentially saying that they're happy to use Canadians, but don't want to be part of Canadayou mean regional parties like the extinct Western Canada Party, the Reform Party, the Social Credit Party?...seems to me those were all hard core conservative parties... Edited May 20, 2010 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 The reason Mr.Harper,and his party,gets elected is because no opposition party has been able to galvanize the public around its leaders OR any of their policies. Harper rules not because he is terribly loved East of the Manitoba border,but because the opposition allows for this almost by default... he rules because the electoral system is broken...he rules because the hard core right aligned with moderate conservatives...if the center and left did the same this coalition of the right would never again govern...fix the electoral system and never again will a conservative party govern alone... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
waldo Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 Uh...Waldo...I left the United Church for the same reason...It's not the only reason,but it was a major determining factor.By the way,I'm no fan of theocrats,or Mr.Harper... as was your prerogative... as was Harper's prerogative. In regards this particular reference, I'm more interested in recognizing Harper's alternative Alliance Church position on homosexuality, proper, and interpreting how/if, in practice, Harper's Conservative government extends to homosexuals, without reservation, the Alliance Church's gospel of repentance, forgiveness,..... and transformation! Quote
Jack Weber Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 he rules because the electoral system is broken...he rules because the hard core right aligned with moderate conservatives...if the center and left did the same this coalition of the right would never again govern...fix the electoral system and never again will a conservative party govern alone... Are you advocating for some sort of Proportional Representation and a modern 2 party federal system(we'll leave the Bloc out of this for the moment)? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 as was your prerogative... as was Harper's prerogative. In regards this particular reference, I'm more interested in recognizing Harper's alternative Alliance Church position on homosexuality, proper, and interpreting how/if, in practice, Harper's Conservative government extends to homosexuals, without reservation, the Alliance Church's gospel of repentance, forgiveness,..... and transformation! Well...Look,if he believes in the silliness of groups like Exodus,then he's off his rocker.If he takes the position that I do,that for example,no church should be forced to perform a gay marriage ceremony,then I don't have a problem with that. If he's saying that homosexuals need to be "re-educated",then we've got serious trouble... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
wyly Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 Are you advocating for some sort of Proportional Representation and a modern 2 party federal system(we'll leave the Bloc out of this for the moment)? PR of course...and whats modern about a 2 party system?...if we need ten parties to reflect Canadians politcal leanings so be it, it may get messy but thats democracy at it's best...and the Bloc has every right to be there just as in the days when the Social Credit Party was found in Alberta, then there is the Western Block Party, a separatist party with no seats... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Jack Weber Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 PR of course...and whats modern about a 2 party system?...if we need ten parties to reflect Canadians politcal leanings so be it, it may get messy but thats democracy at it's best...and the Bloc has every right to be there just as in the days when the Social Credit Party was found in Alberta, then there is the Western Block Party, a separatist party with no seats... Nothing is terribly modern in a 2 party system,but you said that if the Centre and the left formed the same coalition as the right,the right would never be in power in this country again...Unless I'm mistaken? That might not happen like that precisely in a PR situation,but let's say we had some sort of single party of the centre left in this country using the system we have now... As much as I'm loathe to say it,I think the con's would end up in a majority situation.Most right leaning Liberal members would jump ship immediately,and the Dips are too far to the left to form a government without serious moderation. I would say this about the current situation.The Liberals offer almost nothing different to the populous.I do think the the opposition would be better served by having a party that reflects a different vision of the country.I'm no fan of Layton,and if the NDP were the opposition Mr.Harper would have his majority,but we would see a true left/right debate that would be far more healthy and engage more people. If we had a PR type of voting system,we would need a new type of party leader that was far less ideological.That includes Mr.Layton...Because comprimise would be the order of the day because any,and all forms of coalitions would be the only way to form government. Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
justme Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 who said it only applies to conservatives???? http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3239/3088215524_ffd54d31f9.jpg Quote “The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities.” –Theodore Roosevelt “The symptoms of dying civilizations are well known. The death of faith; the degeneration of morals; contempt for the old values; collapse of the culture; paralysis of the will, but the two certain symptoms that a civilization has begun to die are a declining population and foreign invasions no longer resisted.” – Patrick J. Buchanan "Liberalism is the ideology of Western suicide. Its ideas pursued to their logical end will prove fatal to the West." -- James Burnham
jbg Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 Aside from the rest of the garbage in you post, its been a long time since a majority was won where more then 50% voted for one party. I think that was Mulroney in 1984, no? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
justme Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 we live in a semi-democracy the people of Quebec can vote as they choose what issues do you have with democracy is it not being the conservatives preferred way? I thought I was pretty clear that I take issue with Quebec slapping the rest of Canada in the face while it's more than willing to take their money year after year, and in fact, demand more. The Conservatives aren't the only federal party to choose from. you mean regional parties like the extinct Western Canada Party, the Reform Party, the Social Credit Party?...seems to me those were all hard core conservative parties... I believe that uniting the right was one of the best things to happen in Canadian politics in years because it gives Canadians a viable alternative to the Liberals - neither the NDP nor the Bloc will form a government. I'm for a united country with a strong sense of national identity, clearly defined culture, common history and federal political parties that run in elections across the country. In other words, I'm for what keeps the country healthy. That means that I'm opposed to things that would threaten that such as separatism and multiculturalism. Quote “The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities.” –Theodore Roosevelt “The symptoms of dying civilizations are well known. The death of faith; the degeneration of morals; contempt for the old values; collapse of the culture; paralysis of the will, but the two certain symptoms that a civilization has begun to die are a declining population and foreign invasions no longer resisted.” – Patrick J. Buchanan "Liberalism is the ideology of Western suicide. Its ideas pursued to their logical end will prove fatal to the West." -- James Burnham
justme Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) he rules because the electoral system is broken...he rules because the hard core right aligned with moderate conservatives... They call it a big tent, which is what you need to win elections. Dion was a far left environmental nut, but he belonged to the same party as a fiscal conservative like Martin. The same holds true with the US btw. You like to go on about the Republicans, but the truth is that there is a lot of diversity in opinions within both the Democrat and Republican parties. ...if the center and left did the same this coalition of the right would never again govern...fix the electoral system and never again will a conservative party govern alone... There is no center party. The Conservatives are right of center, the Liberals are left of center and the NDP is far left of center. The Liberals and Conservatives do tend to move towards the center to gain support however, save when the Liberals try to take votes away from the NDP. Also, either you're forgetting or you're ignorant of the fact that the Conservatives won the most seats in Canadian history under Brian Mulroney. That election was also the last time that the winning party received over 50% of the vote - something Chretien failed to do even though he won 3 majorities. Edited May 20, 2010 by justme Quote “The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities.” –Theodore Roosevelt “The symptoms of dying civilizations are well known. The death of faith; the degeneration of morals; contempt for the old values; collapse of the culture; paralysis of the will, but the two certain symptoms that a civilization has begun to die are a declining population and foreign invasions no longer resisted.” – Patrick J. Buchanan "Liberalism is the ideology of Western suicide. Its ideas pursued to their logical end will prove fatal to the West." -- James Burnham
Oleg Bach Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 I take back any bad spirited remarks regarding Harper _ NOW that I know he has a music room set up in his house - I admire the guy - at least he adores beauty and is NOT a utlitarian culture hating socialist. The battle between utlity and beauty rages on ! Beauty is the worthy victor. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 Well...Look,if he believes in the silliness of groups like Exodus,then he's off his rocker.If he takes the position that I do,that for example,no church should be forced to perform a gay marriage ceremony,then I don't have a problem with that. If he's saying that homosexuals need to be "re-educated",then we've got serious trouble... That is not what he is saying. He is saying that bureacrats and social engineers should not educate young people to be homosexuals..If a young person is genetically predispose to be an asexual..then so be it - but do not educate or push those on the line over the line - TEACHER - LEAVE THOSE KIDS ALONE...Let nature take it's course and put the artifical formation aside. Quote
DrGreenthumb Posted May 20, 2010 Report Posted May 20, 2010 The only reason Harper continues to get elected is because Christian fundamentalist groups continue to vote him praying as hard as they can for a majority so that Harper will have the power to strip Homosexuals and women of their hard faught for rights. Missionary Alliance, Mennonite, hutterite, all the Christian taliban types vote Theo-Con every time. I worked for some of these nutters for a while and though they seemed like nice family oriented people they had no qualms about using politics to force their religious views on the rest of the public. The rants I used to hear about the evils of homosexuality and how ALL abortion is murder were so hateful, I don't know how they could consider themselves followers of Christ. The Christ I know does not hate anyone, or discriminate or advocate a "PUNISH" the sinners mentality. I dislike what Harper stands for. He is a paternalistic authoritarian, religious fanatic, and should not EVER be given power over others. He has the personality type that is SURE to abuse it. Look how he has behaved even with a minority! Quote
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