Back in USSR

[Sir Bandelot]

A new government program aims to train thousands of parking industry employees nationwide to watch for and report anything suspicious.

Funded by the Federal Emergency Management Agency and administered by TSA, the program teaches parking lot operators to watch for odd activities: strange odors, cars parked where they shouldn't be, people who seem to be taking photos or drawing sketches.

The program is part of a larger effort by the government to enlist ordinary people airline passengers, subway riders, bus drivers, truckers, doormen, building superintendents to serve as the eyes and ears of security enforcement.

"A lot of this is just developing a sense of personal responsibility about things that just don't seem right."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37154988/ns/us_news-security/

This sounds a little disturbing to me. A nation where people watch each other, and report to the authorities anything that seems suspicious... that's how it was in the Soviet Union and in other communist countries like Cuba. A chivato on every corner.

In terms of adding real security I think it could backfire- there might be so many false alarms by the nature of what ordinary people do. There's lots of harmless but eccentric people who might seem "odd" to anybody. Now there will be a database for anybody who gets reported on, right or wrong. Don't like your neighbors? Report them. Eventually there will be so many reports it will become routine, there won't be any way to determine who the real threat is.

Edited May 15, 2010 by Sir Bandelot

[Oleg Bach]

We have it here...have a party - some neighbour does not like the noise or is jealous of the joy..calls the cops - five cops arrive and say they have a "complaint" __ You ask who complained and they say "We can not reveal that information" - in other words you can not face your accusers or even know who they are.

[bush_cheney2004]

This sounds a little disturbing to me. A nation where people watch each other, and report to the authorities anything that seems suspicious... that's how it was in the Soviet Union and in other communist countries like Cuba. A chivato on every corner.

Ever heard of "Neighborhood Watch"? It's a program that started in 1960's USA. Other nation's have similar citizen based programs.

http://www.pontiac.mi.us/images/neighborhoodwatch.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_watch

In terms of adding real security I think it could backfire- there might be so many false alarms by the nature of what ordinary people do. There's lots of harmless but eccentric people who might seem "odd" to anybody. Now there will be a database for anybody who gets reported on, right or wrong. Don't like your neighbors? Report them. Eventually there will be so many reports it will become routine, there won't be any way to determine who the real threat is.

Then why do you find it "disturbing"? You don't live in the United States, Cuba, or the former Soviet Union.

[Bonam]

Seems normal to me. Similar to the whole "See something, say something" idea in the US. Of course the USSR has a very ugly history when it comes to such things, and so it is worrisome in that context, but the reality is that some degree of vigilance by the citizenry is needed in the age of terrorism.

[Moonlight Graham]

Hasn't the gov been saying this since, like, 9/11? I do believe.

[bush_cheney2004]

Hasn't the gov been saying this since, like, 9/11? I do believe.

No...more like....7 December 1941.

[Sir Bandelot]

There are always recommendations for people to be vigilant, like your neighbourhood watch. It's a step up when the government provides training programs to specific groups across the nation, essentially making them government agents charged with the task of spying on the citizenry.

And although it may seem reasonable given the present circumstances, isn't the real risk of terrorism very low? Homeland security does a lot of surveillance for organized groups where they may detect communications, but this is more like an effort to find the lone rogues. In doing so, unusual people will be targeted. That may not seem bad in itself, but when put in the context of other proposed changes such as removing Miranda rights for those SUSPECTED of terrorism, there could be a risk of having people locked up for nothing.

Edited May 15, 2010 by Sir Bandelot

[Sir Bandelot]

why do you find it "disturbing"? You don't live in the United States, Cuba, or the former Soviet Union.

Because America represents the idea of freedom, for the whole world. The idea of America needs to be defended. If the idea of America fails it threatens freedom everywhere.

[bush_cheney2004]

Because America represents the idea of freedom, for the whole world. The idea of America needs to be defended. If the idea of America fails it threatens freedom everywhere.

Really? Do you really believe that? The "whole world"? America has over 2 million incarcerated felons. Maybe the "whole world can't count.

[bush_cheney2004]

There are always recommendations for people to be vigilant, like your neighbourhood watch. It's a step up when the government provides training programs to specific groups across the nation, essentially making them government agents charged with the task of spying on the citizenry.

Nonsense...the "government" has provided training programs for many years at the local, state, and federal level. First responders, teachers, medical professionals, etc. all have varying degrees of not only training, but legal requirements to report certain behaviors to "authorities".

And although it may seem reasonable given the present circumstances, isn't the real risk of terrorism very low? Homeland security does a lot of surveillance for organized groups where they may detect communications, but this is more like an effort to find the lone rogues. In doing so, unusual people will be targeted. That may not seem bad in itself, but when put in the context of other proposed changes such as removing Miranda rights for those SUSPECTED of terrorism, there could be a risk of having people locked up for nothing.

So what? Regular people are locked up all the time. Not sure where you are going with this....and it's ironic that you are watching your "southern neighbors" in such a way and with such concern.

Edited May 16, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Moonlight Graham]

No...more like....7 December 1941.

Haha, true dat.

[eyeball]

In our town, these neighborhood watch types advertised for recruits by likening the war on drugs to the battle of Stalingrad and called for neighborhood committees to watch and report suspicious activity to police. It was quite Freudian really.

They also declared that they wanted to get rid of alcohol but I haven't seen any Chivato's hanging around the liquor store.

I think I'll join and start making lists of neighborhood committee types who purchase liquor. I suspect I could also create quite a lot of heat and work for the authorities by hanging out in front of the school where underage kids gather to smoke tobacco - you know, the real gateway drug. Underage tobacco use also makes a really good gateway to the thrill of illicit behaviour and contempt for authority in general by the time they finally grow into adults.

It would sort of be like borrowing a page from Mr. Canada's book of shattering public complacency and forcing the authorities to either put up or shut up.

[Sir Bandelot]

Really?

Yes.

Do you really believe that?

Yes.

The "whole world"?

Yes!

America has over 2 million incarcerated felons. Maybe the "whole world can't count.

It does now. Because of gradual and perpetual erosion. And it's small changes like this that do it, over a long time.

That's why the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots...

[bush_cheney2004]

It does now. Because of gradual and perpetual erosion. And it's small changes like this that do it, over a long time.

Your timelines are confused, from slavery to Trail of Tears to WW2 internments. The myth of the "shining beacon" has never really existed.

That's why the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots...

This is a perfect example of how some Canadians even import their rhetoric from America. How does somebody grow up in Canada and adopt such co-dependent views?

Edited May 16, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Sir Bandelot]

This is a perfect example of how some Canadians even import their rhetoric from America. How does somebody grow up in Canada and adopt such co-dependent views?

I saw it on TV. "The Rock" with Nicholas Cage and Sean Connery.

[bush_cheney2004]

I saw it on TV. "The Rock" with Nicholas Cage and Sean Connery.

I know.....but that's not the original source (Thomas Jefferson). I guess American media rules your world more than watching neighbours.

[maple_leafs182]

Then why do you find it "disturbing"? You don't live in the United States, Cuba, or the former Soviet Union.

If you lived next to Germany in the 30's would you not be disturbed as to what is going on there.

Yes I am comparing the USA to Nazi Germany because that is what America is becoming.

[bush_cheney2004]

If you lived next to Germany in the 30's would you not be disturbed as to what is going on there.

Yes I am comparing the USA to Nazi Germany because that is what America is becoming.

No...I live next door to Canada and it is not disturbing at all, despite limits on freedom of expression, property rightsm, "Miranda" rights, crown corps, unnacountable PMOs, former residential schools, unsettled land claims, etc. A comparison to Nazi Germany would be too kind....maybe more like the Soviet Union!

[Sir Bandelot]

that's not the original source (Thomas Jefferson).

Yeah I know. I wonder what Thomas Jefferson would say about the state of liberty in the US today.

I guess American media rules your world more than watching neighbours.

Sean Connery is Scottish. And Nicholas Cage's parents are from Germany and Italy. But I would not exclude myself from watching a movie, just because it's American

[bush_cheney2004]

Yeah I know. I wonder what Thomas Jefferson would say about the state of liberty in the US today.

He would be shocked...no more slaves to have sex with.

Sean Connery is Scottish. And Nicholas Cage's parents are from Germany and Italy. But I would not exclude myself from watching a movie, just because it's American

The point is that the America you think exists / existed was learned through American media. You are at least twice removed from reality.

[Sir Bandelot]

The point is that the America you think exists / existed was learned through American media. You are at least twice removed from reality.

I think you're right, America is a police state that incarcerates more people than any other country in the world, it's history is rife with oppression but portrays itslef with an illusion of freedom.

That's why I prefer to stay here in Canada, the true north strong and free.

Hahhhh...

[bush_cheney2004]

I think you're right, America is a police state that incarcerates more people than any other country in the world, it's history is rife with oppression but portrays itslef with an illusion of freedom.

Good....one more sucker cured of his/her fixation on an American fantasy.

That's why I prefer to stay here in Canada, the true north strong and free.

Hahhhh...

North yes...strong and free, no.

[Sir Bandelot]

Good....one more sucker cured of his/her fixation on an American fantasy.

Yes exactly comrade... that's why I started this here thread. To disillusion the fools who actually live there

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes exactly comrade... that's why I started this here thread. To disillusion the fools who actually live there

Nope....you're more of a rube than they are. Now appearing in a theatre near you.....

[Sir Bandelot]

Nope....you're more of a rube than they are. Now appearing in a theatre near you.....

Rube

n. Slang

An unsophisticated country person.

Yeah I kinda like that, good ole country common sense. Not you're slicker nouveau cuisine eatin liberal city boy.

See your problem is you really got no position. I come in and say, America is a police state complete with a stazi style spy class, and you say no it's not. Then I lead you on by saying America is land of the free and you say, no it's not. Then I say, yeah you're right it's not and you say, yeah it is. Then you take a cheap shot at me.

If you were a woman I'd say, lets get married baby, we were made for each other!