English Canada must deal with the BQ

[bush_cheney2004]

I wouldn't bet too much on that going forward. Eventually, most of the western world will probably become one...eventually. Quebec will probably not leave Canada, but some day, Canada may become part of a larger community, like the EU.

Good luck with that...we are seeing just how robust the EU is...not! The IMF with US backing will be required to get the job done...again.

[August1991]

Reading through this thread, I have the impression that many posters are in denial.

The Bloc has about 40-50 seats in the federal parliament and this will continue for the foreseeable future. As a result, no English Canadian political party will be able to form a majority.

No poster here seems able to accept this obvious fact and talk about it intelligently.

[Smallc]

The Bloc has about 40-50 seats in the federal parliament and this will continue for the foreseeable future. As a result, no English Canadian political party will be able to form a majority.

I'm not sure what you think there is to talk about. But, if you want to talk about it, a majority will probably become possible with the addition of about 30 seats in Ontario, Alberta, and BC. It would be difficult, but possible. Regardless, there have been majorities in the past with the presence of the Bloc, and there will be again at some point, with a possible deminished Bloc presence. I've always said, though I don't necessarily favour proportional representation, Alberta and Quebec are the best arguments for it. With current results, they appear to be homogeneous provinces....and they aren't even close to that.

[August1991]

I'm not sure what you think there is to talk about. But, if you want to talk about it, a majority will probably become possible with the addition of about 30 seats in Ontario, Alberta, and BC. It would be difficult, but possible.

That seems to be the Harper government approach to the problem - and it also repudiates most of Canadian history where compromise with minorities is a common (if not universal) feature.

Smallc, if you go back to the OP, I considered this Harper solution to the Bloc. I reckon that it won`t work.

[Smallc]

That seems to be the Harper government approach to the problem

It's not an approach to any problem. It's only fair that the under represented provinces at least get a half way fix.

[Wild Bill]

Reading through this thread, I have the impression that many posters are in denial.

The Bloc has about 40-50 seats in the federal parliament and this will continue for the foreseeable future. As a result, no English Canadian political party will be able to form a majority.

No poster here seems able to accept this obvious fact and talk about it intelligently.

August, I grant that by living there you may have a better perspective but I have to also wonder about how broad a circle of friends you may have to give you an accurate poll of Quebec society.

IOW, to say that the Bloc will ALWAYS have 40-50 seats is your opinion, unless you inherited psychic power from JoJo Savard, the psychic lady who was on TV some years ago.! I'm wondering how well founded is your opinion.

Some pundits have stated that the Bloc is an old man's party with an old man's dream. The implication is that there is less new blood to replace what dies off. Do you attend party meetings? Do you see a higher percentage of bald heads and blue-dyed hair?

We all saw the quick rise and fall of Mario Dumont. This again is more of a "youth" thing, where something old is abandoned for a new fad but being a fad there is no staying power. Still, a younger demographic has more of a "pop" culture. Are they embracing M Tete Fromage? Does he have a replacement lined up that would revitalize new, youthful votes?

Obviously I live too far away and am too much of a geezer to relate anyway. Again, I was hoping you'd have a clearer picture.

[Keepitsimple]

That seems to be the Harper government approach to the problem - and it also repudiates most of Canadian history where compromise with minorities is a common (if not universal) feature.

Not sure what you mean by "minorities". Jason Kenney in particular has done a tremendous amount of outreach work to many minority communities, including Chinese and East Indian - many of which are quite clear that their "traditional" Liberal vote has been taken for granted. The majority of these Canadians arrived under Liberal rule which led to their "default" Liberal vote. As a result, Conservatives are making considerable inroads in many of these communities. They are now entrenched as Canadians and confortable in taking a closer look at the Conservative Party. The demonization of the Conservatives as an ultra-right party by the Liberals has run its course and is now seen as nothing but bluster from a fading party. A second advantage that the Conservatives have is that most new Canadians typically come from culturally conservative countries and are not as comfortable with some of the more "progressive" policies of the Left.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Keepitsimple

[Argus]

That seems to be the Harper government approach to the problem - and it also repudiates most of Canadian history where compromise with minorities is a common (if not universal) feature.

Smallc, if you go back to the OP, I considered this Harper solution to the Bloc. I reckon that it won`t work.

Compromise? Here's how crompromising works with Quebec. Quebec wants $100. You compromise on $50. That satisfies everyone... this year.

Next year they're screaming again for $50. You compromise on $25. That satisfies everyone... for a year.

The following year Quebec is screaming for $25. You compromise on $12.50.

This goes on until Quebec has the whole $100, at which point they start screaming about how the system is unfair to them and then demand another $100.

Harper gave them recognition of how wonderfully unique they were, and billions more in payments and how long did that keep Quebec happy? Six months before the FEDERALIST premier was screaming and whining and tearing at his hair about how evil the Tories are and how they were mistreating Quebec.

There is nothing, absolutely NOTHING that will ever stop Quebec from being the spoiled, narcisistic, self-serving, worthless, shiftless good-for-nothing whiner of confederation. Quebec is like the lazy guy on welfare who whines forever about how society is mistreating him, all the while deftly avoiding any and all jobs that incidentally come his way. Everyone is unfair to him. Everyone cheats to get ahead at his expense. He cares nothing for anyone but himself. And nothing will ever change his mind.

You reckon it won't work? Good. Hope it pisses off Quebec to no end and you all leave.

[Smallc]

I think someone should calm down before they have a stroke.

[Guest TrueMetis]

I think someone should calm down before they have a stroke.

We might be better off.

[Smallc]

We might be better off.

Seriously though, can't you just feel the venom and anger in all of his posts?

[Guest TrueMetis]

Seriously though, can't you just feel the venom and anger in all of his posts?

Yep, the funny thing being (unless I'm mistaken) he works for the government. I wonder how essential his job is.

[jbg]

Yep, the funny thing being (unless I'm mistaken) he works for the government. I wonder how essential his job is.

If he (or anyone) works for the Government the only thing I care about is can they speak French. I simply don't care if they can't do the job.

[Shwa]

If he (or anyone) works for the Government the only thing I care about is can they speak French. I simply don't care if they can't do the job.

Really? Do you have some insight to share on that?

[Argus]

I think someone should calm down before they have a stroke.

What makes you think I wasn't and aren't calm? I assure you that What I stated has been my opinion for quite a long period of time and not arrived at in a fit of pique. I regard it as logical and reasonable and while I resent Quebec's presence and their endless whiny bitching it doesn't exactly drive me to fits of anger.

[Argus]

We might be better off.

Ah, if only that were to happen. Then the collective IQ of this site might, you think, drop low enough that your own would edge out of the fourth quartile!

It's a grand dream, I know, but you might as well forget it unless you can find a whole bunch of cretins to join mapleleaf web. Maybe you have friends.....?

[Argus]

Seriously though, can't you just feel the venom and anger in all of his posts?

You are a child, and easily excitable. You read strong opinions as venom because you have none, and see emotion behind everything because emotion drives your own beliefs.

[Shwa]

You are a child, and easily excitable. You read strong opinions as venom because you have none, and see emotion behind everything because emotion drives your own beliefs.

I dunno Argus, I am no child and not easily excitable and I thought your post - especially the last paragraphs - were a little over the top angry. I mean, I have worked in the Federal Government with guys that were avowed separatsistes - happily collecting their nice paycheques all the while complaining about Canada - so I think sometimes the anger is justified. Just don't paint everyone with the same brush.

Hope it pisses off Quebec to no end and you all leave.

Interesting use of language (i.e. "pisses off") that suggests this sentence is driven by emotion.

[Argus]

I dunno Argus, I am no child and not easily excitable and I thought your post - especially the last paragraphs - were a little over the top angry.

Contemptuous, rather. I've watched Quebec whining about how unfair everyone is to them for decades now. It just makes me roll my eyes now. The comparison I made to the welfare bum who never acknowledges his own responsibilities, who thinks he's so hard done by, so mistreated, that is how Quebec has behaved. Are you saying the comparison is wildly off base? I wasn't pleased to see Harper bend over backwards to Quebec, I'll tell you that, giving them their cherished recognition and billions more as well. And my contempt for Quebec grew when that grudgingly satisfied them for like, a year, before they were back snivelling about how unfair TROC was to them. I simply don't have time for these people any more. I don't believe they contribute anything to confederation and should go already.

Interesting use of language (i.e. "pisses off") that suggests this sentence is driven by emotion.

No, because I said it would piss off Quebec, and everything Quebec does is driven by emotion. If Quebec ever does leave it won't be for any logical reason - unless they discover oil - it will be out of a fit of emotional pique out of some supposed insult which gets their collective backs up.

[jbg]

I've watched Quebec whining about how unfair everyone is to them for decades now.....No, because I said it would piss off Quebec, and everything Quebec does is driven by emotion. If Quebec ever does leave it won't be for any logical reason - unless they discover oil - it will be out of a fit of emotional pique out of some supposed insult which gets their collective backs up.

It's interesting how it's unsuccessful cultures such as the French and the radical Muslims get "insulted" so readily. Think "cartoon Jihad". Successful groups and individuals have no time to nurse grievances.

[waldo]

It's interesting how it's unsuccessful cultures such as the French...

as you are an American, this is nothing new in regards the stereotypical American 'French bashing', although... this appears a new twist to presume to collectively denigrate French culture. Or - was this simply a misspeak in referencing "the French", in reply to a Quebec reference?

[jbg]

as you are an American, this is nothing new in regards the stereotypical American 'French bashing', although... this appears a new twist to presume to collectively denigrate French culture. Or - was this simply a misspeak in referencing "the French", in reply to a Quebec reference?

In this case, both French and French-Canadian. Both are masters of playing victim.

[bush_cheney2004]

as you are an American, this is nothing new in regards the stereotypical American 'French bashing', although... this appears a new twist to presume to collectively denigrate French culture. Or - was this simply a misspeak in referencing "the French", in reply to a Quebec reference?

Nothing the Americans haven't seen or heard for years....from the French no less. Deal with it....

[kimmy]

Reading through this thread, I have the impression that many posters are in denial.

The Bloc has about 40-50 seats in the federal parliament and this will continue for the foreseeable future. As a result, no English Canadian political party will be able to form a majority.

No poster here seems able to accept this obvious fact and talk about it intelligently.

I keep asking, and you keep ignoring the question: what do you propose English Canada do to "deal" with the BQ?

As is your wont, you continue to talk in "big picture" terms that are so "big" they're invisible.

English Canada has no means of "dealing" with the BQ because it is entirely up to Quebec voters. Quebec voters will continue to send their 40-50 BQ MPs to Ottawa regardless of what overtures English Canada's representatives make. I challenged you to explain what measures a national party could take to persuade Quebec voters to give up the BQ and vote for a national party, and you can't, because there aren't any.

How can English Canadians "deal" with the BQ? We've been doing it for 20 years. It's really not difficult.

-k

Edited May 20, 2010 by kimmy