Happy 420

[Wilber]

Now that Vancouver City Council has made it illegal to smoke on public beaches or parks, I wonder if they will be handing out tickets next 420 Day.

[maple_leafs182]

I wasn't impressed with 420 in winnipeg. Sure like 2 thousand people showed up but the protest had no soul. Everyone was there just to get high and not to get it legalized.

[wyly]

Now that Vancouver City Council has made it illegal to smoke on public beaches or parks, I wonder if they will be handing out tickets next 420 Day.

if I remember correctly it was illegal in the Netherlands to smoke pot outdoors(I recall a cop asking someone to please put it out)and illegal to smoke tobacco indoors, strange contradiction

[Dave_ON]

if people could grow there own just as we are allowed to make our own wine and beer how would you tax it?...

the benefit I see is it would destroy the gang culture and their grow ops and save the taxpayers many millions in enforcement and prison expenses...

Even if you make your own wine it's regulated as you can't sell it. You can only make it for personal consumption or give it away as it were. My assumption would be a control board would be setup to regulate, and consequently tax, pot simillarly to how we handle Liquor. This also has the added benefit of giving those hard done by tobacco farmers in Ontario a new crop to grow.

[Dave_ON]

I work out at home...

Who drives to the gym anyway? I guess if you live in a rural area maybe, most people I know work out at a gym that's close by and walk there.

Have I ever been a little high and drove, yes.

I haven't gotten a speeding ticket let alone in accident.

Likely you haven't received a speeding ticket because you felt like 20kph was super fast

[wyly]

Even if you make your own wine it's regulated as you can't sell it. You can only make it for personal consumption or give it away as it were. My assumption would be a control board would be setup to regulate, and consequently tax, pot simillarly to how we handle Liquor. This also has the added benefit of giving those hard done by tobacco farmers in Ontario a new crop to grow.

I don't know of anyone who sells they're home made products but a few who share and trade...I don't think anyone could go into business selling pot if everyone can grow their own on their balcony, for any commercial venture selling to those who are greenthumb challenged tax them as any business would be taxed...

[Wilber]

if people could grow there own just as we are allowed to make our own wine and beer how would you tax it?...

the benefit I see is it would destroy the gang culture and their grow ops and save the taxpayers many millions in enforcement and prison expenses...

No it wouldn't because over 70% of commercial grow production in Canada is for export to places where it is illegal. If you want to take the gang element out of the equation, you need to legalize it both sides of the border. If we didn't learn anything else from prohibition, we should have learned that.

[wyly]

No it wouldn't because over 70% of commercial grow production in Canada is for export to places where it is illegal. If you want to take the gang element out of the equation, you need to legalize it both sides of the border. If we didn't learn anything else from prohibition, we should have learned that.

legalizing it will drive the gangs out of business or legitamize their business...I really don't care what they americans do or think about it just as they don't care what we think of their lack of control over handguns...

[Wilber]

legalizing it will drive the gangs out of business or legitamize their business...I really don't care what they americans do or think about it just as they don't care what we think of their lack of control over handguns...

How will it do that? When prohibition was in effect in the US, there was plenty of gang activity in Canada supplying them with booze. Read your history books. Bootlegging was a major industry in many Canadian communities during prohibition. Capone had an operation in Moose Jaw. How much of it do you think got taxed? If there is an illegal market, how are you going to supply it with a legal business without breaking the law? Using your argument, if we legalized handguns to the same extent as the US, we should have fewer issues with them being used by criminals.

The Americans will do what they will do whether I agree with them or not and speaking personally, I don't want to have my ability to travel restricted just so someone can get stoned.

[M.Dancer]

I find the idea that criminal gangs will somehow become law abiding business men once pot is legalized to be quite niave...they are in it for the money...if there is money to be made selling un taxed "bootleg" herb, they will...I also find it amusing that the asusmption is that gang ventures are verticle operations...indeed they are not. They are diversified and run prositution, gambling, loansharking***, protection rackets..etc etc..and if there isn't enough profit in legal pot they will happily traffic, coke, crack, meth, etc etc....

There were gangs long before prohibition...and the ending of prohibition did nothing to end them.

*** funny how you can get a legal loan but loansharking still exists...

[wyly]

How will it do that? When prohibition was in effect in the US, there was plenty of gang activity in Canada supplying them with booze. Read your history books. Bootlegging was a major industry in many Canadian communities during prohibition. Capone had an operation in Moose Jaw.

I know my history, Canada had prohibition at the same time and it didn't work so it was repealed but even during the prohibition legal production was still legal for export and taxes would've been collected...Capone was a smuggler anything else about his exploits in MJ are unverified myth, why would he produce what he was buying from distilleries legally?

How much of it do you think got taxed? If there is an illegal market, how are you going to supply it with a legal business without breaking the law? Using your argument, if we legalized handguns to the same extent as the US, we should have fewer issues with them being used by criminals.

handguns are legal in Canada but they're controlled, we contol the sale...and a handgun is far more deadly than a joint...

The Americans will do what they will do whether I agree with them or not and speaking personally, I don't want to have my ability to travel restricted just so someone can get stoned.

nothing would change those restrictions are already in place...

[maple_leafs182]

Let's legalize all drugs. Gangs make most of their money off selling drugs, if people are buying drugs legally then gangs would shrink in size for they would lose a lot of funding. Gangs aren't GM, they can't just go to the government and ask for a bailout to continue operations.

[M.Dancer]

Gangs aren't GM, they can't just go to the government and ask for a bailout to continue operations.

They don't need to, they are criminals. If they need bridge financing, they steal it.

[Wilber]

I know my history, Canada had prohibition at the same time and it didn't work so it was repealed but even during the prohibition legal production was still legal for export and taxes would've been collected...Capone was a smuggler anything else about his exploits in MJ are unverified myth, why would he produce what he was buying from distilleries legally?

And who will do the smuggling next time? The fact remains, there will be far more money to be made smuggling untaxed weed.

handguns are legal in Canada but they're controlled, we contol the sale...and a handgun is far more deadly than a joint...

Depends on what you are doing when under the influence as well as the long term effects of smoking it. I'm certainly not in favour of removing restrictions on hand guns but their deadliness depends on the user, just like drugs.

nothing would change those restrictions are already in place...

Naive at best. You know the intentions of the US government regarding legalization in Canada?

[maple_leafs182]

They don't need to, they are criminals. If they need bridge financing, they steal it.

They are people like me or you. They don't sell drugs just to prove a point by breaking the law, they sell drugs because there is a really big market for them.

We want our drugs, people may find it morally wrong so don't do them, let the ones who want to do them do them.

Edited April 21, 2010 by maple_leafs182

[M.Dancer]

They are people like me or you. They don't sell drugs just to prove a point by breaking the law, they sell drugs because there is a really big market for them.

Yet you believe they will not be criminals if drugs are legalized....

[maple_leafs182]

Yet you believe they will not be criminals if drugs are legalized....

I believe gangs would be much smaller if we stopped creating a billion dollar market to fund their operations. I believe the streets would be safer with less gangs.

I can't speak for every gang member or possibly know what he would do if drugs were legalized, that is his or her choice to make.

[Muddy]

But no one addressed my concern about having the stuff wafting over my hedge into my living room! Never mind the filthy language that seems to be part of getting high. If others have rights to smoke the weed ,I insist that I have a right to not be inconvenienced by it.But then I am just the old guy ! Who cares! His kind will be gone soon.

[Moonbox]

I believe gangs would be much smaller if we stopped creating a billion dollar market to fund their operations. I believe the streets would be safer with less gangs.

I can't speak for every gang member or possibly know what he would do if drugs were legalized, that is his or her choice to make.

I think you need to understand what makes a criminal a criminal. They're society's failures.

If pot were legalized you'd actually have successful and intelligent people growing large scale and efficient crops with machinery, distribution chains etc. The relatively small scale operations of the gangs etc would quickly be pushed out of business through simple economies of scale.

This would lead them back to a criminal life and on to the next illicit activity/substance.

Again, I'm not really against it being legal, but the argument that it would reduce crime is just silly. It holds no water.

Edited April 21, 2010 by Moonbox

[maple_leafs182]

But no one addressed my concern about having the stuff wafting over my hedge into my living room! Never mind the filthy language that seems to be part of getting high. If others have rights to smoke the weed ,I insist that I have a right to not be inconvenienced by it.But then I am just the old guy ! Who cares! His kind will be gone soon.

You should live next to me, I am a very quiet and peaceful person.

It's not the pot that makes them swear, it's the person themselves.

I think you need to understand what makes a criminal a criminal. They're society's failures.

I look at it from a different angle, i see it as society is failing them.

If pot were legalized you'd actually have successful and intelligent people growing large scale and efficient crops with machinery, distribution chains etc. The relatively small scale operations of the gangs etc would quickly be pushed out of business through simple economies of scale.

This would lead them back to a criminal life and on to the next illicit activity/substance.

Again, I'm not really against it being legal, but the argument that it would reduce crime is just silly. It holds no water.

70% of the Mexican drug cartels income comes from pot alone. If they lost that stream of revenue, they would hurt bad. They would have to down size.

When they legalized alcohol in the states again, much of the crime associated with bootlegging alcohol dissipated. Same would happen with pot and all drugs.

If gangs can't make money they won't exist.

Too say that eliminating millions if not billions of dollars from gangs pockets wouldn't reduce crime is silly.

Gangs only exist because we give a untaxed billion dollar underground market to thrive in.

[Dave_ON]

But no one addressed my concern about having the stuff wafting over my hedge into my living room! Never mind the filthy language that seems to be part of getting high. If others have rights to smoke the weed ,I insist that I have a right to not be inconvenienced by it.But then I am just the old guy ! Who cares! His kind will be gone soon.

Does anybody around you drink? Smoke? Does that not drift over your hedges too? I find it hard to believe that pot smokers in your neighbourhood are "rowdy" by any means and disturbing the peace as it were. I somehow suspect that the filthy language is not a matter of the pot as much as the personalities that live near you. Be that as it may, you can't do much of anything about what someone else does on their private property, unless you can demonstrate that they are disturbing the peace, or causing a general disruption. I'm afraid smoke doesn't meet these criteria.

[M.Dancer]

70% of the Mexican drug cartels income comes from pot alone. If they lost that stream of revenue, they would hurt bad. They would have to down size.

And where ddid you dream up that figure?

When they legalized alcohol in the states again, much of the crime associated with bootlegging alcohol dissipated. Same would happen with pot and all drugs.

While they may have stopped bootlegging, they just truned to other revnue streams. Legalizing drugs is anot a panacea for crime.

If gangs can't make money they won't exist.

I agree but that is a naive notion. Did the mafia disappear after the end of prohibition?

Too say that eliminating millions if not billions of dollars from gangs pockets wouldn't reduce crime is silly.

To assume they won't find new ways to make money is even sillier.

Gangs only exist because we give a untaxed billion dollar underground market to thrive in.

I await your clarion call to legalize child prostitution, extortion, loan sharking, protection etc etc

[Moonlight Graham]

All drugs are for idiots. That includes alcohol and nicotine.

[maple_leafs182]

And where ddid you dream up that figure?

Some mainstream news network.

While they may have stopped bootlegging, they just truned to other revnue streams. Legalizing drugs is anot a panacea for crime.

Nor do i think it is a panacea for crime, but its a start.

I agree but that is a naive notion. Did the mafia disappear after the end of prohibition?

No, and gangs would still exist, just the scale of them would be a lot smaller.

To assume they won't find new ways to make money is even sillier.

I never said they wouldn't.

I await your clarion call to legalize child prostitution, extortion, loan sharking, protection etc etc

Loan sharking is legal, do you see some of the rates MasterCard and Visa charge.

I do think prostitution should be legal, not child prostitution though.

If women wanna have sex for money, let them. I guess men too.

I am very liberal as a person, I don't support the Liberals but I think people should have the right to live their lives the way they wish.

[M.Dancer]

Loan sharking is legal, do you see some of the rates MasterCard and Visa charge.

Is there a subject that you actually know something about?