Why Harper did not dare to look at Obama who waged finger at him?

[xul]

And there are things different from what they think before they came out. Since China developed so fast, even several year's difference makes people feel large different. Earlier immigrants thinks their life may improved a lot after come here, for immigrants in recent years, especially from the developed part of China, many people may find more and more situations that live in Canada is not as good as in China. But those from poor provinces still thinks Canada has much better life compare with their living in China. I know several people is just in such case. But many others went back in the first several years. Most of them find it hard to find a professional job and reluctantly work as a labor.

I said that I thought you were telling the truth that you were a Canada citizen because you, like your pure-blood countrymen--lol only a joke, I mean those Canadian who have never been to China, showed having no idea about what the life is like in China nowadays but some misleading information from some incredible website.

Do you really believe those internet fairy tale that if someone who has washed dishes in Canada for years comes back China, he will be able to find a well-paid job like a manager? LOL, unless he has a well-paid top-ranked communist dad first.

There do have some immigrants coming back their home countries. In China, I guess most cases are among these:

1. A young man(I mean a person who has no need to consider the difficulties to his families especially children caused by migrating from one place to another) who already has a well-payed job in China and he just wants to find some oppotunities to promote his career in a foreign country. When he came to Canada and found things were not as easy as he thought, he had to rush back China, usually several months after he came Canada, before he lost his original job.

2. A dude of a corrupt communist official who has found a safe hiding place in Canada to hide the money which his dad defalcated. He comes back China because his dad wants him to continue his dad's communist revolutionary business.

3. Some one who may not be rich but is "well-connected" in his hometown, usually in a small city or town because in such place it seems like that everyone has an "uncle" in local government, hospital, school...or some place where there are some relatives who can do him a favour to make his life more convenient and easy. If a "poor dude" like this comes to Canada and somehow has to stay, I bet he will go mad at last.

4. Some one was spanking "educated" by his peasant dad into a college in China. When he came Canada, he found annoyingly that laws here protect naughty kids' asses so his kids would not make MBAs or something like their dad so he has to come back his hometown to continue the ass-spanking education before the kids were taken by CAS....

Anyway, I don't think there are a lot of serious immigrants may come back because they consider the fairness of the system they have chosen rather than their temporary economical or living-standard loss. In other words, they eye on long term benefits more than present interests.

In China, people knows most of news here.

In China, people who can read english like you and me may know most of news here, though sometimes they are not able to open the website from youtube to Dalai Lama's.

In Canada, people who can read Chinese may know most news in China. Though they are able to access any Chinese website but there still are some news they will never know just like Chinese people, because not all news in China are allowed to report.

if I were a dictator in China, I will order universities to study western system carefully, and tell people with all those facts how western media fool people, so that no need to worry about lies. And they can find the positive part that can be use in China and use it for its people.

I find you do have all ingredient of being a dictator except political sense ....how on earth could you "order" a professor to study something to come to a prescriptive result? If a professor is "ordered" to "study" out a prescriptive conclusion, he is definitely not studying anything but doing stenographer's work. Whether you are a dictator or an elected political leader, you only can fund a professor to do his study on a certain subject which you interest and let himself alone to come to the conclusion if you really want him to do study for you.

Edited April 23, 2010 by xul

[bjre]

Do you really believe those internet fairy tale that if someone who has washed dishes in Canada for years comes back China, he will be able to find a well-paid job like a manager? LOL, unless he has a well-paid top-ranked communist dad first.

Are you belonging to those who can not find a job in China now? Unlike old immigrants, many of technical immigrants from China now had a good job that they may earn 100k - 200k yuan a year without a management job. So when they came here, they rent apartment over 1k a month, buy nice cars. They can survive for years without a job. Unlike many old immigrants who come to western country with empty pockets. Many from private company, and foreign invested companies in China. If as you said, only those who have a top-ranked communist dad can take a well-paid job, how come the sales of cars in China be more than US now?

There do have some immigrants coming back their home countries. In China, I guess most cases are among these:

1. A young man(I mean a person who has no need to consider the difficulties to his families especially children caused by migrating from one place to another) who already has a well-payed job in China and he just wants to find some oppotunities to promote his career in a foreign country. When he came to Canada and found things were not as easy as he thought, he had to rush back China, usually several months after he came Canada, before he lost his original job.

2. A dude of a corrupt communist official who has found a safe hiding place in Canada to hide the money which his dad defalcated. He comes back China because his dad wants him to continue his dad's communist revolutionary business.

3. Some one who may not be rich but is "well-connected" in his hometown, usually in a small city or town because in such place it seems like that everyone has an "uncle" in local government, hospital, school...or some place where there are some relatives who can do him a favour to make his life more convenient and easy. If a "poor dude" like this comes to Canada and somehow has to stay, I bet he will go mad at last.

4. Some one was spanking "educated" by his peasant dad into a college in China. When he came Canada, he found annoyingly that laws here protect naughty kids' asses so his kids would not make MBAs or something like their dad so he has to come back his hometown to continue the ass-spanking education before the kids were taken by CAS....

Anyway, I don't think there are a lot of serious immigrants may come back because they consider the fairness of the system they have chosen rather than their temporary economical or living-standard loss. In other words, they eye on long term benefits more than present interests.

Don't know where your comment come from. I have several former colleagues who go back China and find a job in weeks in private companies. And I have schoolmates, after go back to China from Japan, they create their own business, hiring many people and doing large projects now. I know they pay some of their employees 10k yuan a month several years ago.

In China, people who can read english like you and me may know most of news here, though sometimes they are not able to open the website from youtube to Dalai Lama's.

I did not try youtube while I was in China, I guess this is true. Lots of other website can be open and China don't lack of video sharing sites.

In Canada, people who can read Chinese may know most news in China. Though they are able to access any Chinese website but there still are some news they will never know just like Chinese people, because not all news in China are allowed to report.

In Canada, you can not expect main stream news cover some topic. One example is Jan Wong..

On September 16, 2006, three days after the shooting at Dawson College in Montreal, Canada’s nationally distributed, newspaper of record, The Globe & Mail, published a front-page article titled, “Get under the desk,”[1] by Jan Wong.[2] In the article, Ms. Wong controversially linked all three Québec school shootings of the last two decades—1989 École Polytechnique Massacre (15 deaths), 1992 Concordia University Massacre (4 deaths), and 2006 Dawson College Shooting (2 deaths)—to the purported alienation brought about by “the decades-long linguistic struggle” within the province. Public outcry and political condemnation soon followed in many venues. In response, a Globe and Mail editorial attempted to minimize the controversy as a "small uproar" over journalistic freedom, but this caused further condemnation. Jan Wong maintained her perspective.

Political reaction

Micheline Labelle, director of the Centre de recherche sur l’immigration, l’ethnicité et la citoyenneté (CRIEC, "center of research on immigration, ethnicity and citizenship") at the Université du Québec à Montréal stated that she saw in the arguments something akin to "neoracism", that is to say, a generalization of a cultural trait applied to a given population. "For less than that, minorities go to the courts", she said.[4]

On September 19, 2006, the Canadian Press reported that federalist Premier of Quebec Jean Charest demanded an apology, calling the article a "disgrace". He sent an open letter[26] to the Globe vigorously defending the Quebec society and its language protection.

“ In this kind of situation, anyone who ventures to put forward explanations or comparisons at the very least risks making a fool of himself. Jan Wong has certainly discredited herself with her gamble.

I was shocked and disappointed by the narrow-minded analysis published in the Saturday, September 16 edition, in which Ms Wong sought to identify the affirmation of French culture in Québec as the deeper cause of the Dawson College shootings and the killings at the Polytechnique in 1989.

Quebecers make up less than 3% of the North American population. Over the centuries, through the vicissitudes of history, we have managed to preserve our language and culture, and in so doing, cherished the highest democratic ideals. Every year, we welcome tens of thousands of individuals from the four corners of the earth, people who contribute to building a free society in Québec, a society that is proud of its difference. [...]

Ms Wong’s article is a disgrace. It betrays an ignorance of Canadian values and a profound misunderstanding of Québec. She should have the decency to apologize to all Quebecers.

”

Conservative Prime Minister of Canada Stephen Harper called Wong's argument "prejudiced", "absurd", "irresponsible" and "without foundation".[citation needed] He sent the Globe a similar letter. "These actions (the killings) deserve our unqualified moral condemnation, not an excuse for printing prejudices masked in the language of social theory," Harper wrote.[27] Parti Québécois leader André Boisclair declared that the journalist had, on the intellectual level, "slipped into the dregs" ("glissé dans les bas fonds").[28] Former Premier of Quebec Bernard Landry declared to La Tribune "if she is of good faith, she will have to apologize [...] It is incredible that it is still possible today of conveying so delirious opinions on Quebec. Especially at an era when Quebec is more cosmopolitan than ever. [...] It is insulting for Quebec and dishonouring for Canada. In the same way as if I saw a similar article about Ontario in La Tribune, I would be ashamed for La Tribune."[29]

Cameroon-born Bloc Québécois Member of Parliament Maka Kotto issued a declaration at the Canadian House of Commons stating "to pretend that there could be a link of any kind of cause-and-effect between the dramatic episode of Dawson College and Bill 101 — described as infamous by the journalist — pertains of a defamatory delirium disconnected from the Quebec reality. [...] Quebec is an inclusive, welcoming society where it is pleasant to live. As an immigrant, I felt very rapidly welcome there and I deplore that the openness of the Quebec people can be put into question." He invited the federal government to denounce the writings of Jan Wong as well.[30] On September 20 the House of Commons unanimously passed a motion requesting an apology "to the Quebec people" for the column.[31] Denis Coderre, the Liberal MP who tabled the motion, called the column "classless".[32] "People feel there's a sort [...] of trend.", he said. "I think that it's enough. We're not "Quebecistan", we're not a people that ostracizes, we're a model of integration."[33] Coderre was in the group of politicians attacked by Barbara Kay in the "Quebecistan" controversy, also accused of "Quebec bashing". Marie-Hélène Paradis, press attaché of Quebec Minister of Immigration Lise Thériault, said "No data can support what Ms. Wong advances." She declared that such allegations feed "the type of fast judgements that lead to discrimination."[4]

Despite having voted for the motion, Conservative Member of Parliament Daniel Petit declared that there might be a link, as Wong suggested. "I think that the billion (dollars) that we put in the registery (the Canadian gun registry) should have been put into education and integration of immigrants in Montreal", Petit said. Dimitri Soudas, press attaché for Conservative Prime Minister Harper, said "The comments of Mr. Petit are unacceptable, he should retract them and it does not reflect in any case the position of the government", adding that Petit was met by the Prime Minister's cabinet on the subject. MPs of the House of Commons criticized him for his statements, including Michel Gauthier, of the Bloc Québécois, and Denis Coderre, of the Liberal Party of Canada, who demanded apologies. He offered them promptly. "I made inappropriate remarks," Petit said in a statement. "I withdraw them entirely because you cannot draw any link between the integration of immigrants in Quebec and the terrible tragedy at Dawson College."[32][34]

[edit] Globe and Mail editorial response

On September 21, 2006, The Globe and Mail published an editorial on the affair. Calling the controversy a "small uproar", it defended the right of the journalist to question such phenomena, the "need to ask hard questions and explore uncomfortable avenues", saying that it "merely wondered". The editor claimed not to be surprised by the hundreds of letters of protest received, including those of First Ministers Charest and Harper. The editorial validated Wong's claims of alienation in Quebec, which the Globe called "politics of exclusion". Asking whether this exclusion led to marginalization and perhaps alienation, it said that the answer is "arguable". However, it called the marginalization and alienation of the three shooters "obvious". About whether it could be associated with the murders, it answered that "[n]o such evidence exists".[5] In a sentence apparently intended to balance the assertions, it implied at the same time that an even worse discrimination existed in the Quebec of the past, as it wrote: "By the same token, it would be remiss to forget that today’s Quebec is not the Quebec of yesteryear."[5] The Globe and Mail did not issue an apology for Jan Wong's piece, as requested by many, including the unanimous House of Commons.

[edit] Reactions to the editorial

Leader of the Bloc Québécois Gilles Duceppe declared that he considered the editorial an attempt at justification.[34] "It even suggests there might be some problems in Quebec because of the language laws. It's unacceptable and it's deplorable and it's shameful for a newspaper of that stature", he said. "Try imagining the opposite — If I'd made such nonsensical, absurd remarks (about English Canada). Then all the editorial writers across Canada would get involved."[32] Premier of Quebec Jean Charest was said to be disappointed by the Globe and Mail response. He was also said to be offended by the little consideration the paper gave his open letter, that was published in the readers' opinion page (like the one from Prime Minister Harper). "The (House of Commons) motion is totally ignored", said the Premier's press attaché.[35] On September 23, 2006, the Canadian Press reported that Edward Greenspon, editor of The Globe and Mail, expressed regrets. In a Globe and Mail column, without making formal apologies, he wrote that the personal opinions of Wong should have been excised from the piece, not because they were unacceptable, but because they constituted a "thesis", not a "statement of fact". He wrote that "they should have been put into a separate piece clearly marked opinion". He however believed the reaction to be clearly disproportionate.[36] Despite Greenspon's insinuation that the piece was not "clearly marked opinion", it had in fact been accompanied by a headshot of Wong, the traditional means of designating opinion pieces. [1]

So, in such an environment, who can expect any non - official thinking can be allowed in main stream news? Whom else will dare to public such kind of articles without worry about losing their jobs? Actually, "the government thinks for you and decides what you're allowed to believe. " maybe is just the case in Canada. Freedom in western nations? It is just such a lie.

Edited April 24, 2010 by bjre

[bush_cheney2004]

Are you belonging to those who can not find a job in China now? Unlike old immigrants, many of technical immigrants from China now had a good job that they may earn 100k - 200k yuan a year without a management job....

200K / year = $28,500 maximum annual salary for non management? Better to stay in Canada and drive garbage truck!

[bjre]

200K / year = $28,500 maximum annual salary for non management? Better to stay in Canada and drive garbage truck!

You simply have no idea of price of goods in China. One can survive with less than 1k a month in many cities.

[bush_cheney2004]

You simply have no idea of price of goods in China. One can survive with less than 1k a month in many cities.

No want to just just survive....in China.

[xul]

200K / year = $28,500 maximum annual salary for non management? Better to stay in Canada and drive garbage truck!

200k yuan a year can really make a person or a family among rich guys and living in a decent living standard in some Chinese towns, even judged by western criterian. Food and housing are so cheap in most part of China, like that a two bedroom apartment like this only costs a peron 50k to 200k yuan in some small town or city, but I can not guarantee that the food are safe and the building will not collapse if there is an earthquake so it is hardly to compare the lives in North America and in China.

Since earthquakes do not always happen and there have not a lot of Chinese dead for poisonous food, I may say that the living standard of a person who earn 200k yuan a year in a smal Chinese city or town is approximately equivalent with a peron who eran $60k to $80k a year in Canada or USA except he can't get a gardon in his back yard---house is really rare in China because this country has already been overpopulated.

What bjre is misleading or being misleading is there are not many 200k/year jobs available in Chinese small towns. As for those mega cities like Beijing and Shanghai, since both communist and capitalist share the universal taste of setting up their HQ there, there do have many people earn over 200k yuan a year. But the price of housing in Beijing (the unit of the chart is "yuan/per square meter" not per house ).... wish bjre and his friend reading the chart first before they throw their Canadian passport into a trashcan and come back China....

Edited April 24, 2010 by xul

[xul]

If as you said, only those who have a top-ranked communist dad can take a well-paid job, how come the sales of cars in China be more than US now?

I said "Do you really believe those internet fairy tale that if someone who has washed dishes in Canada for years comes back China, he will be able to find a well-paid job like a manager?"

This was the response of your statement "But many others went back in the first several years. Most of them find it hard to find a professional job and reluctantly work as a labor."

I have several former colleagues who go back China and find a job in weeks in private companies.

If that is true, obviously you didn't work in a warehouse, so did your colleagues...

And I have schoolmates, after go back to China from Japan, they create their own business, hiring many people and doing large projects now.

Where did they initial capital come from? Were they some poor Chinese peasant immigrants and after they had worked for years in some Japanese warehouses as labour workers, they became millionnaires?---Japanese yuan millionnaires Maybe. And then they came back China, an super-idiotic communist banker of Bank of China mistook their 1 million Japanese yuan notes as Chinese yuan notes, so they became real millionaires and started their business...

I know they pay some of their employees 10k yuan a month several years ago.

If I run a business, I will willingly pay a person $10 million a year regardless what kind of colour his ass's is, if he is able to convince me that he will earn $1 billion for me.....so do those Canadian employers.

I did not try youtube while I was in China, I guess this is true. Lots of other website can be open and China don't lack of video sharing sites.

There is a joke:

After got the majority he dreamed, the first thing Harper did was----to ban all Chinese food in Canada.

Pure British blood Canadian Human Right defender bjre came outside Harper's office protesting.

Harper was surprised. "You are not Chinese and don't eat Chinese food at all, and as for those Chinese, there also are a lot of options like French food, Italian food....available," he called in bjre and asked, "why do you protest my policy?"

bjre: "I'm not merely speaking for Chinese......I protest because If people let government decide what foods they eat, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny.....”

In Canada, you can not expect main stream news cover some topic.

I never said that CNN-kinds were the symbol of justice and fair. On the contrary, in a capitalist system, as a form of business media also has its own interests. That makes them no different from Walmart-kinds though they try to convince people that they are different.

But I was comparing the system. You can not deny that in Canada, people have more rights to access the information if they want.

The photo you quoted in this topic for one. In Canada, as a politician Mr. H.Canada maybe just laugh off it. But even if he is furious, he still can do nothing to stop the media or people like you to make use of it because his power is restricted by the system. If such thing happened in China, Mr. H.China might laugh off it to show his tolerance so you may feel there is no difference. But if he decides not tolerating such thing, the system almost makes him being able to do anything he wants to deal with the media and you, and that makes huge difference between the two systems.

[Born Free]

If so then he is pretty damn good

Not really...

[Moonbox]

Not really...

He's trying to hard to just be a troll.

[bjre]

I said "Do you really believe those internet fairy tale that if someone who has washed dishes in Canada for years comes back China, he will be able to find a well-paid job like a manager?"

This was the response of your statement "But many others went back in the first several years. Most of them find it hard to find a professional job and reluctantly work as a labor."

I never heard of such a fairy tale if you did not tell me. No body I know who wash dishes. The people I know did just stay at home in Canada without a job for several months or a little more than a year and go back and find another job in China.

They reluctant work as a labor, so they did not go for that.

If that is true, obviously you didn't work in a warehouse, so did your colleagues...

Where did they initial capital come from? Were they some poor Chinese peasant immigrants and after they had worked for years in some Japanese warehouses as labour workers, they became millionnaires?---Japanese yuan millionnaires Maybe. And then they came back China, an super-idiotic communist banker of Bank of China mistook their 1 million Japanese yuan notes as Chinese yuan notes, so they became real millionaires and started their business...

The initial capital came from their Japanese bosses. They were business partners. Maybe now still is, I don't know.

If I run a business, I will willingly pay a person $10 million a year regardless what kind of colour his ass's is, if he is able to convince me that he will earn $1 billion for me.....so do those Canadian employers.

You'd better fulfill your dream.

There is a joke:

After got the majority he dreamed, the first thing Harper did was----to ban all Chinese food in Canada.

Pure British blood Canadian Human Right defender bjre came outside Harper's office protesting.

Harper was surprised. "You are not Chinese and don't eat Chinese food at all, and as for those Chinese, there also are a lot of options like French food, Italian food....available," he called in bjre and asked, "why do you protest my policy?"

bjre: "I'm not merely speaking for Chinese......I protest because If people let government decide what foods they eat, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny.....”

I don't believe in any protest. I said in one of my previous posts that protest in Canada don't solve general problems, special problem for particular individual case may be able to solve if lucky enough.

I never said that CNN-kinds were the symbol of justice and fair. On the contrary, in a capitalist system, as a form of business media also has its own interests. That makes them no different from Walmart-kinds though they try to convince people that they are different.

But I was comparing the system. You can not deny that in Canada, people have more rights to access the information if they want.

The photo you quoted in this topic for one. In Canada, as a politician Mr. H.Canada maybe just laugh off it. But even if he is furious, he still can do nothing to stop the media or people like you to make use of it because his power is restricted by the system. If such thing happened in China, Mr. H.China might laugh off it to show his tolerance so you may feel there is no difference. But if he decides not tolerating such thing, the system almost makes him being able to do anything he wants to deal with the media and you, and that makes huge difference between the two systems.

The post was just for an idea why Harper did not look straight at Omaba, it was somewhat a leisure topic. It becomes another China topic because you guys are so interested in.

And the 2 systems are not so different. Harper was only elected in his own region, not nationally. And many discussions and decisions are behind close doors.

Edited April 25, 2010 by bjre

[xul]

It becomes another China topic because you guys are so interested in.

I agree it's kinda unfair. I remember I was also accused as a propagandist or a brainwashed when I tried to say something different from what they used to know. Sometimes I felt I'd better tell them I was a pure blood Brit....lol, a pure blood Brit is supposed to write English better than me. But I could tell them I was a German, no, an Icelander may better---for it's a country having "no colonialism, communism, Nazism.....history" .

LOL, I never thought of that. But this is a Candian political forum, even Harper or Ignatiffe can not survive from such kind of attacks. It isn't pleasant but it's a part of the system, maybe one of the dark sides of the system. You can choise ignoring such off-topic replies or making reasonable debate. It is unwise playing as a "red Chinaman" just for others call you a red Chinaman. You need not pretend that the CPC is some noble thing even if you do have a communist dad and you perfectly know he isn't as evil as most of Canadian think---using the actor lines of the film Patton, "most ordinary Nazi join the party just about the same way Americans become Republicans and Democrats...."

Just imagine, if you were a German, and happened having a great grandfather who was not a "cruel bad guy" at all but an "ordinary Nazi"---that means he thought the membership of Nazi Party may be helpful to get some governmental orders for his uniform making business, would you let your kids wearing a swastika to honor the party?

I think you just don't understand, the cause of the "unfair" treatment you suffered in this forum is just the same cause of some new immigrants who complain they are "unfairly" treated for they can not find good jobs. Insufficiency of credibility is essential causes in both cases. To those new immigrants, employers have no way to verify the skills they claimed in their resumes. As for you, the stories you presented to support your claimes, such as how some kind-hearted Japanese capitalists who run big firms added his poor Chinese workers who didn't have communist official dads to "help" the business as "partners", usually are incredible.

Harper was only elected in his own region, not nationally.

I'm not aware that PM Trudeau was only elected in Quebec...

Edited April 26, 2010 by xul

[bjre]

I agree it's kinda unfair. I remember I was also accused as a propagandist or a brainwashed when I tried to say something different from what they used to know. Sometimes I felt I'd better tell them I was a pure blood Brit....lol, a pure blood Brit is supposed to write English better than me. But I could tell them I was a German, no, an Icelander may better---for it's a country having "no colonialism, communism, Nazism.....history" .

LOL, I never thought of that. But this is a Candian political forum, even Harper or Ignatiffe can not survive from such kind of attacks. It isn't pleasant but it's a part of the system, maybe one of the dark sides of the system. You can choise ignoring such off-topic replies or making reasonable debate. It is unwise playing as a "red Chinaman" just for others call you a red Chinaman. You need not pretend that the CPC is some noble thing even if you do have a communist dad and you perfectly know he isn't as evil as most of Canadian think---using the actor lines of the film Patton, "most ordinary Nazi join the party just about the same way Americans become Republicans and Democrats...."

Just imagine, if you were a German, and happened having a great grandfather who was not a "cruel bad guy" at all but an "ordinary Nazi"---that means he thought the membership of Nazi Party may be helpful to get some governmental orders for his uniform making business, would you let your kids wearing a swastika to honor the party?

I think you just don't understand, the cause of the "unfair" treatment you suffered in this forum is just the same cause of some new immigrants who complain they are "unfairly" treated for they can not find good jobs. Insufficiency of credibility is essential causes in both cases. To those new immigrants, employers have no way to verify the skills they claimed in their resumes. As for you, the stories you presented to support your claimes, such as how some kind-hearted Japanese capitalists who run big firms added his poor Chinese workers who didn't have communist official dads to "help" the business as "partners", usually are incredible.

I'm not aware that PM Trudeau was only elected in Quebec...

I did never complain about "unfair" on this. Fairness is relative, unfair is absolute.

As for "Insufficiency of credibility", that used when one can not find anything to support his idea. When a manager in a company don't want hire a person because he feel that the candidate is too good that can even be better than the manger himself, the manager may use "insufficiency of credibility" to refuse.

The fact new-immigrant easier find a professional job in US, even with H1 visa only, make American companies much powerful than Canada ones.

Does the Japanese capitalist "kind-hearted", that is not necessary for them to do it, they may just think about the profit. They know how to work with talented people no matter where he came from. They can expand their own business when they do that. Even in Canada, when there is profit, capitalist will choose not use "insufficiency of credibility", like some of the credit card companies such as Capital One, PC bank, and some others when they try to sell more credit cards.

When I was just landing in Canada, I was refused by a job agent. When I asked him: "Do you have any doubt that I have the ability to do that job"? he said he surely believe I can do it, and he said if I came several years earlier, I may find get an IT job very easily. I have a friend in Mississauga who find an IT job after just 3 month training in later 1990s. No one ask if she has experience let alone "Canadian experience" at that time and no one care.

The reason why many Canadian don't want to hire new immigrants is because they don't want to offer more jobs not only for new immigrants but also for citizens. New immigrants are surely have more disadvantage because of language and others. The powerful Unions make salary more unfair, to maintain that, company have no choose but offer less jobs. The tax is high. companies have no choice but to hire less people so that they can reduce cost, even like this, they still find it hard to beat companies in other countries, this make them hire even less employees in Canada. The company that don't follow this rule will bankrupt, like Notel, which hire too many people just several years before its fall. It is the laws that make more people without a job. It has nothing to do with "insufficiency of credibility".

[Moonbox]

The reason why many Canadian don't want to hire new immigrants is because they don't want to offer more jobs not only for new immigrants but also for citizens. New immigrants are surely have more disadvantage because of language and others. The powerful Unions make salary more unfair, to maintain that, company have no choose but offer less jobs. The tax is high. companies have no choice but to hire less people so that they can reduce cost, even like this, they still find it hard to beat companies in other countries, this make them hire even less employees in Canada. The company that don't follow this rule will bankrupt, like Notel, which hire too many people just several years before its fall. It is the laws that make more people without a job. It has nothing to do with "insufficiency of credibility".

This is how you should talk here if you don't want to get mocked. At least here it looks like you're actually interested in debating Canadian politics.

[xul]

The reason why many Canadian don't want to hire new immigrants is because they don't want to offer more jobs not only for new immigrants but also for citizens.

....but are you or me or others so different? If you have a well-payed job in a company, and you know a guy who is better than you but if you introduce him to your boss, you wil be kicked off and never make such a well-payed post again, will you introduce him to your boss?

This is what the system is designed. If you stand for unions, you may say, "how greedy these capitalists are! They move their factories to China and abandon us just for making more profits!" But if you stand for capitalists, you may also say, "if Canadian capitalists are so patriotic that they never move their factories elsewhere, so they are defeated by Japanese companies and bankrupt, will union members refuse to abandon the sinking ships and find new jobs in those Japanese firms? If somehow Dalai Lama's jinx at China goes wrong which turns every rock in China to pure gold so every Chinese become as rich as Arabian Kings and no longer work, will Canadian workers refuse to work for Chinese capitalists who will pay triple wages to hire them?"

You said fairness was relative, that's absolutely right. A new-comer may complain the unfair treatment of the refusal and the protectionism of the labour market, but if he manage to get through, the system may also protect him from competation of new-comers. So the system is still "fair" as a whole.(It's just unfair to capitalists, and that's why they move their factories to China---the system today there is more fair to them.... )

I know very well the hardness most new immigrants will face. I wasn't blaming them. But do you really think Canada should be responsible for the situation? If Canada government promised immigrants jobs, the immigration officer should issue everyone a job offer maybe paycheck with the visa. Canada offers immigrants the options of stay or going back, so everyone needs to do is to make a choice suitable for himself, then trust his own choice, do his best, don't let negative feeling get him and let fate decide.

[bjre]

Anyway, I don't think there are a lot of serious immigrants may come back because they consider the fairness of the system they have chosen rather than their temporary economical or living-standard loss. In other words, they eye on long term benefits more than present interests.

Flows of People and the Canada-China Relationship (Canadian International Council)

http://www.asiapacific.ca/sites/default/files/filefield/China_Papers_No10.pdf

(May 2010)

(page 34)

Canadian communities in China are growing for many reasons. Although the exact number remains unknown, the best estimate puts

the number of Canadians in China (Mainland and HKSAR) at 250,000-300,000

, roughly the size of the population of Saskatoon or Windsor. Canada cannot afford to ignore the fact that so many Canadians live in China. How Canada can turn its diaspora in China into an advantage remains a huge challenge.

I guess the main reason is because of the difficulty to find a professional job.

Edited May 19, 2010 by bjre

[bjre]

Flows of People and the Canada-China Relationship (Canadian International Council)

http://www.asiapacific.ca/sites/default/files/filefield/China_Papers_No10.pdf

(May 2010)

(page 34)

Canadian communities in China are growing for many reasons. Although the exact number remains unknown, the best estimate puts

the number of Canadians in China (Mainland and HKSAR) at 250,000-300,000

, roughly the size of the population of Saskatoon or Windsor. Canada cannot afford to ignore the fact that so many Canadians live in China. How Canada can turn its diaspora in China into an advantage remains a huge challenge.

I guess the main reason is because of the difficulty to find a professional job.

Also from that paper (page 12) I have found that from 2001 to 2008, there are 278,073 Chinese immigrants enter Canada. That means the number current in China are about the same number who enter Canada in the 8 years. That indicates how hard for a Chinese immigrant to survive in Canada. So they have to choose go back home.