Moonbox Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Actually Alexander did conquer the region... briefly. Of course, everything about Alexander's reign was brief. Afghanistan is easy to conquer. It's the backwards armpit of the world. Holding on to it and changing it has always been the problem, from Darius to present day included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Except that very few have ever wanted to actually conquer Afghanistan. The Brits only interest in Afghanistan was to keep the Russians out and to protect their Indian empire. Likewise the Soviets wanted a friendly government on their border. Neither had any interest in conquering the place. Same goes for NATO today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 (edited) Afghanistan is easy to conquer. It's the backwards armpit of the world. Holding on to it and changing it has always been the problem, from Darius to present day included. At least parts of it were pretty interesting, particularly in the post-Alexander Greco-Bactrian era, where you had this extraordinary synthesis of Zoroastrianism, Buddhism and Hellenism (I suspect Hellenic Judaism and Christianity probably owe a great deal to this region), far more pronounced than what was seen in India, and Bactria was for centuries a key cultural and trade link between the Mediterranean and the Orient. The lands that make up Afghanstian have not always been simply regions filled with violent tribes. Edited April 7, 2010 by ToadBrother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 oppose the war, not because I don't want Afghanistan to be liberated from tyranny, but because I doubt that war is the best way to bring it about. I believe that the losses in war, not just for soldiers (who are willing to die for their country) but for the civilians caught up in it. I believe psychologically, emotionally, many of them will hate us more. They are uneducated. And although we look at their lives as if it's horrible, this is what they are used to. We put them through a deeper horror during the war because of the violence and the possibility of change which will only come about many decades later. Then you don't understand the Taliban, or the other terrorist gangsters in this tragic event...sometime the only way to fight fire is with fire....and in this case the biggest stick wins.... Our losses as tragic as they are, have been light, compared to other conflicts this nation has been in....what you have lost sight of is everyone of those soldiers volunteered, they saw something about Afghan that they thought the risk would be worth it....let me ask you this every had that feeling....every sat down and thought if i accept this mission it could cost me my life.....Our soldiers are doing that everyday for years....Canadians think they know what freedom is all about....when really everyone needs to see what absolute caus looks like, smells like, tastes like....and once you see it...then you'll know what a great gift we could provide them with just a little peace....This is what our soldiers are providing and why they risk thier lives for.... The Civilians caught up in this conflict are what personally got me to come back 3 tours....each time i left i had to look them in the eyes and tell them i had to return to my family , friends and way of life...knowing full well life for them was going to be a day to day struggle, for food, shelter, water...who was going to keep the bad guys away in the middle of the night....the end of each tour was the worse for me....it ripped my guts out knowing in less than 12 hours i'd be home eating steak drinking beer, listening to my kids giggle and laugh....and while we might not be loved or even liked by all the population....those we did help are freinds for life....and trust me for every horror story you read about in the media there is 10 good will stories that did not get reported....because blood sells papers.... Down kanadar looks like any other middle east city, cars , trucks commerence, cell phones, lap tops in cafes ....everyone chasing a buck.....and while they are not all university educated do not sell them short...most of the men have good educations....doctors, engineers, etc etc... SO as most Canadians are letting out thier breath with our new reployment date in 2011, it's not something we should be proud of....it is what most Canadians want....it's not what our soldiers want...yes we are tired of this war, but we want to finish it, to be able to look our allieds in the face , shake hands , and say thanks for coming out....i want to be able to give those Afghan civilians the same .... a fighting chance at a stable life, without war and all of what it brings.... Nobody really knows what they have until they loss it...or see the consquences of lossing it....the gifts and freedoms we have here in this nation are plentyful....and i can not for the life of me know why we can not share them.... every time i land in Canada i kiss the ground and thank god for being Canadian...because i've seen the worse...and i know what a great gift we all have.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 I don't think they realized how messed up a country it actually was. At this point now, it's all trying to get out while doing the least damage possible. Bailing out of nowhere will make it worse or at BEST no better than when they started. it won't make a difference...I think the soldiers that died there would appreciate it if what they did made some sort of difference.dead don't appreciate anything, they're dead..wasted lives for a war that can't be won... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 dead don't appreciate anything, they're dead.. That's rather obvious isn't it? Dead is dead. If my spouse croaks before I do, he'll be dead and I'll be appreciating a survivor's pension. If I go first, he'll be appreciating a survivor's pension compliments of me. But we already knows that. It's the same with soldiers who go to a combat zone. They know they may not survive even before they're dead. So some things we may appreciate before we're dead. wasted lives for a war that can't be won... Even when we withdraw from the combat mission, if we commit to reconstruction or humanitarian projects, lives may be lost as well. Seems you just can't win when you're in harm's way. To be philosophical, I would say that just being alive put you in harm's way. I think soldiers know this and are quite willing to sacrifice their personal security to make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 it won't make a difference... based on what evidence ? dead don't appreciate anything, they're dead..wasted lives for a war that can't be won... No but the living sure appricate it....and as for the rest is your opinion.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 based on what evidence ? history, the Taliban will be back the moment NATO leavesNo but the living sure appricate it...no, they don't care it's sentimental BS, the dead are forgotten in a couple weeks, life continues on without them... and as for the rest is your opinion.and McCrystals, he's a good student of history...dying for a war that can't be won... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 history, the Taliban will be back the moment NATO leaves Fair enough, how many times in history have the Taliban regained power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Fair enough, how many times in history have the Taliban regained power? heh heh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 heh heh ask if you can a refund on your education, it was obviously wasted...heh heh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 There really is no "Taliban" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 no, they don't care it's sentimental BS,the dead are forgotten in a couple weeks, life continues on without them... Sorry Wyle, but they are not forgotten, I've been approached dozens of times by Afghan civilians who thank me and my comrads for thier service, and our sacrifices....as for Canadians we will remember them during the many rememberance day ceremonies....And at the Unit level thier Names will be scribed in our Units history, and read aloud on serveral occassions through out the year....Soldiers will sit down over some beers and tell stories of the fallen, the funney shit, the sad shit, NO sir they will not be forgotten... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 ask if you can a refund on your education, it was obviously wasted...heh heh You didn't answer the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 You didn't answer the question. He can't becuase history is only for making his pionts, and can't be used again'st him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 Sorry Wyle, but they are not forgotten, I've been approached dozens of times by Afghan civilians who thank me and my comrads for thier service, and our sacrifices....as for Canadians we will remember them during the many rememberance day ceremonies....And at the Unit level thier Names will be scribed in our Units history, and read aloud on serveral occassions through out the year....Soldiers will sit down over some beers and tell stories of the fallen, the funney shit, the sad shit, NO sir they will not be forgotten... you're deluding yourself, a tiny tiny fraction of Canadians show up for any remembrance ceremony, most use the day off to relax or sleep in...they don't care...Unit level is the equivalent of a slow pitch team winning a Labour day tournie, tell me some funny shit about Pte. J Adams, who? you have no clue, neither does anyone else... 33 million other Canadians don't give a rats ass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 He can't becuase history is only for making his pionts, and can't be used again'st him... a military man who doesn't who is not a student of military history, that has to be embarrassing...we can safely assume your not an officer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 You didn't answer the question. when I see a intelligent question worth answering I'll respond...but that's an infrequent occurrence around here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 a military man who doesn't who is not a student of military history, that has to be embarrassing...we can safely assume your not an officer... An even safer assumption is you let your sphincter do your talking... So once again, when was the last time the Taliban regained power, oh pompous student of history? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 you're deluding yourself, a tiny tiny fraction of Canadians show up for any remembrance ceremony, most use the day off to relax or sleep in...they don't care...Unit level is the equivalent of a slow pitch team winning a Labour day tournie, tell me some funny shit about Pte. J Adams, who? you have no clue, neither does anyone else... 33 million other Canadians don't give a rats ass... I think you'd be surprised how many Canadians attend some type of rememberance ceremony....But thats not the piont...rememberance day is really not about all Canadians....it's about the Vets and military to gather and salute fallen comrads, then latter over some beers shot the shit, tell stories....and hey if you want to sleep in relax scratch your bag then good for you....I know where i'll be , and now i know where you'll be....it's why we do the things we do ...so you have choices, in your case scratching your bag...in my case remembering those of my comrads who where lost in combat....and to celbrate thier lives... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome Rob Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 I think you'd be surprised how many Canadians attend some type of rememberance ceremony....But thats not the piont...rememberance day is really not about all Canadians....it's about the Vets and military to gather and salute fallen comrads, then latter over some beers shot the shit, tell stories....and hey if you want to sleep in relax scratch your bag then good for you....I know where i'll be , and now i know where you'll be....it's why we do the things we do ...so you have choices, in your case scratching your bag...in my case remembering those of my comrads who where lost in combat....and to celbrate thier lives... Not just Vets. I am not one, but will remember friends lost. We're not all vicarious a-holes. I can understand the good things that come from the deployment in Afghanistan, but in the big picture, WTF is any westerner doing there? Do they even know what the strategic goal is? Or is it changing yearly like Iraq? Elimination of the Taliban? Will that ever happen, for every one you kill, their are 9 more to take his place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 (edited) I think you'd be surprised how many Canadians attend some type of rememberance ceremony....But thats not the piont...rememberance day is really not about all Canadians....it's about the Vets and military to gather and salute fallen comrads, then latter over some beers shot the shit, tell stories....and hey if you want to sleep in relax scratch your bag then good for you....I know where i'll be , and now i know where you'll be....it's why we do the things we do ...so you have choices, in your case scratching your bag...in my case remembering those of my comrads who where lost in combat....and to celbrate thier lives... I attended the 2009 remembrance ceremony, in city of 1 million people I'd estimate 5-6K attended, no one cares(ok, extremely few)...if you die other than your friends and family no one will care, a few politicians will try make some political points being seen with your grieving mother but they don't care either...no one will remember your name next week just as you have no idea who Pte. J Adams was...and I went to the remembrance ceremony out of respect for the living, not the dead, the dead don't know they're dead... Edited April 14, 2010 by wyly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 I can understand the good things that come from the deployment in Afghanistan, but in the big picture, WTF is any westerner doing there? Do they even know what the strategic goal is? Or is it changing yearly like Iraq? Elimination of the Taliban? Will that ever happen, for every one you kill, their are 9 more to take his place? Naybe we can, maybe we can't. What we can do is keep them too busy to let Al Qaeda back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Not just Vets. I am not one, but will remember friends lost. We're not all vicarious a-holes.I can understand the good things that come from the deployment in Afghanistan, but in the big picture, WTF is any westerner doing there? Do they even know what the strategic goal is? Or is it changing yearly like Iraq? Elimination of the Taliban? Will that ever happen, for every one you kill, their are 9 more to take his place? Part of removing a government, is sticking around and assisting in replacing that government with something more stable... Everything changes, but our stragictic goal has remained as stated above. The Taliban is made up of a shit load of different groups, not all following the Taliban drum....The hard core Taliban guys are tribal related, and will always be Taliban....the others are working for money...or Muslims fighting for religious reasons, there is many different reasons....why they fight ....but the hard core members are becoming fewer....and will die out over time....generations.... And i won't lie to you Yes NATO's actions do drive some undecided to thier wings....just like thier actions drive some to our side....If you talk to the Average Afghan they all want the same thing PEACE....and after 30 years of war who ever can deliver it will get thier support.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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