Could James Cameron Speak @ U of O?

[Michael Hardner]

What about the shooting and killing of climate skeptics? How's that fit into the equation?

Glenn Beck isn't a climate skeptic. He believes in Global Warming.

[Michael Hardner]

Where to begin....

1) Ann Coulter was never denied permission to speak in Canada.

2) You don't seem to understand the concept of 'identifiable group', as defined in the Charter.

Yeah, AW is right... this thread is just ridiculous.

[Shady]

This is the third time I'm repeating it now: .... if all Coulter had made was one such remark, instead of having the reputation she does from the many such comments she has made.....

Ok. So clarify for me how many hateful comments one is allowed to make before it's deemed hate speech? So if I wish death on a group of people who disagree with me, but only once, as far as we know, then that's ok. But if I make three or four, then that's not ok? Where is this imaginary line of yours? At which point did you choose to start the line, and at which point did you choose to end the line. And who the hell gave you the authority to conjure such a line in the first place???? :angry:

Yeah, AW is right... this thread is just ridiculous.

It's ridiculous because you people are being ask to hold everyone to an equal standard. Which you can't. Sean Penn just made the statement that he wishes everyone that calls Hugo Chavez a dictator to die screaming of rectal cancer. Would he be allowed to speak at U of O? Would the do-gooder, busy-bodies be protesting him? And if not, why not? And should everyone invited to speak there be held to the same standard, and have the same opportunity to speak, free of thuggish, anti-free speech, smiley faced fascists like the ones who showed up on tuesday night?

[nicky10013]

Ok. So clarify for me how many hateful comments one is allowed to make before it's deemed hate speech? So if I wish death on a group of people who disagree with me, but only once, as far as we know, then that's ok. But if I make three or four, then that's not ok? Where is this imaginary line of yours? At which point did you choose to start the line, and at which point did you choose to end the line. And who the hell gave you the authority to conjure such a line in the first place???? :angry:

It's ridiculous because you people are being ask to hold everyone to an equal standard. Which you can't. Sean Penn just made the statement that he wishes everyone that calls Hugo Chavez a dictator to die screaming of rectal cancer. Would he be allowed to speak at U of O? Would the do-gooder, busy-bodies be protesting him? And if not, why not? And should everyone invited to speak there be held to the same standard, and have the same opportunity to speak, free of thuggish, anti-free speech, smiley faced fascists like the ones who showed up on tuesday night?

You simply just can't grasp the issue of hate speech. All the more surprising since it's an easy one to grasp.

It's not about the amount of things people say, it's what they say. Saying I dislike someone because of their policy or political ideology is kosher. Saying I hope they die is horrible but generally allowed just so long as it isn't in the form of a threat. Saying you don't like people because they belong to a racial, sexual, national group is a no-no. So, let's recap, saying I hope all opponents of Chavez dies of rectal warts, though ridiculous is allowed. Saying someone should die because they're muslim is hate speech and could be viewed as inciting genocide.

[Shady]

You simply just can't grasp the issue of hate speech.

Oh I do. Hate speech is anything you and your ilk don't like or don't agree with. The very definition of hate speech was composed by people. And what each person considers hate can vary. But what's quite clear, is that the subjective term of hate speech is constantly used against conservatives, to silence them, and their opinions.

Saying someone should die because they're muslim is hate speech and could be viewed as inciting genocide.

Didn't Cameron suggest that somebody should die if they question global warming? Didn't Penn suggest people should die if they question Hugo Chavez? Apply your standard evenly a-hole! And at least the two comments I'm referring to were actually said. Unlike your statement of muslims.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Shady

[nicky10013]

Oh I do. Hate speech is anything you and your ilk don't like or don't agree with. The very definition of hate speech was composed by people. And what each person considers hate can vary. But what's quite clear, is that the subjective term of hate speech is constantly used against conservatives, to silence them, and their opinions.

Didn't Cameron suggest that somebody should die if they question global warming? Didn't Penn suggest people should die if they question Hugo Chavez? Apply your standard evenly a-hole! And at least the two comments I'm referring to were actually said. Unlike your statement of muslims.

It was an example. I didn't specifically cite it to a particular person. As I said, no what Cameron said doesn't apply. He said what he said due to people's specific views which is entirely legitimate. He didn't say they should die because they belong to a specific religious, ethno-national, sexual group. The different is ideas are malleable, can be attacked and should be attacked to determine their worth or lack of worth. It's what democracy is all about. Attacking people solely due to the fact that they're a muslim or gay is wholly unacceptable. Why? Because these people can't control where they were born or how they look or what their family raised them as. It's not someone of Islamic faith's fault that they happen to occupy the same vague title as a nut like Osama Bin Laden. The notion of taking away their rights as Coulter has on many occaisions is sickening and should be defined as such. It's dehumanizing not just to the entire religion of Islam, but to the entire middle east region, 99% of which just want to go about living their lives on a daily basis.

It brings questions of free speech, but my response to that is with another question. What does undeniable racism and sexism bring to the table of rational debate? Absolutely nothing. It has no place in society whatsoever.

Listen, my deep down personal belief on this is divided. In the end, I think there should be some kind of hate speech law for extreme cases. I used to unfailingly believe that letting them speak would show society how stupid you crazy people can be. However, the fact that more and more people are buying into this non-sense (like the extreme radicalization of the tea party into a violent mob. A democratic congressman had his gas line cut) says to me that there needs to be something there to protect both sides from each other in a time of growing polarization and radicalization.

Edited March 25, 2010 by nicky10013

[Michael Hardner]

It's ridiculous because you people are being ask to hold everyone to an equal standard.

See my post above. Just because there's a double standard, doesn't give you license to come up with logically gaping analogies. We know what you're getting at, but your example is lacking. Why don't you go and get a coffee ?

[ironstone]

Definitely. Lets be honest, here, U of O didn't bar her from speaking. The Coulter and Levant camp cancelled because they were afraid of protests.

Seems to me that there was a very real threat of violence from the protesters.These dangerous idiots want to be judge,jury and hangman combined.

Based on some of his own foolish comments,James Cameron would have the red carpet rolled out for him at the U of O.

[Shady]

Why don't you go and get a coffee?

I just did thank you very much. A large double-double from Tim Hortons.

[nicky10013]

Seems to me that there was a very real threat of violence from the protesters.These dangerous idiots want to be judge,jury and hangman combined.

Based on some of his own foolish comments,James Cameron would have the red carpet rolled out for him at the U of O.

That was based on previously bad information. There was no such threat.

[KeyStone]

I just did thank you very much. A large double-double from Tim Hortons.

Shady

Do you think that David Ahkanew was a Conservative?

Have you even bothered to look up, or try to understand what 'identifiable group' means, or you plan to continue to exhibit a complete lack of understanding of the concept?

[Shady]

Have you even bothered to look up, or try to understand what 'identifiable group' means

So is it ok to espouse hate toward unidentifiable groups?

lack of understanding of the concept?

The concept is completely subjective, and soley used against conservative commentators to silence opinion. Being crude and even vulgar is not hate speech.

Again I ask, why is it ok to wish death on certain people who Cameron and Penn disagree with? But if others use satire and humour to make points not even close to reaching the scale of the likes of Cameron and Penn, it's classified as hate speech?

You can all take your brown shirts off, roll them up really tight, and cram them!

[ToadBrother]

It brings questions of free speech, but my response to that is with another question. What does undeniable racism and sexism bring to the table of rational debate? Absolutely nothing. It has no place in society whatsoever.

What does rational debate have to do with free speech? Why does speech have to be rational?

[capricorn]

What does rational debate have to do with free speech? Why does speech have to be rational?

If rational debate determined admission to this board, half of all posts would be relegated to the recycle bin. With free speech, I take the good with the bad.

[ToadBrother]

If rational debate determined admission to this board, half of all posts would be relegated to the recycle bin. With free speech, I take the good with the bad.

If rationality determined proper speech, then every copy of the Bible, the Qu'ran, Book of Mormon and Deepak Chopra book would thrown in the garbage.

[bloodyminded]

I'm was just kinda wondering if James Cameron, director of Avatar would be allowed to speak at the University of Ottawa?

Btw, this thread is just about James Cameron and the standards set by U of O. It's not about anybody else. So please don't make it be. Thank you in advance.

Now, I could be wrong. But calling somebody a f****** a**hole sounds a lot like some pretty hateful language!

First of all, that is not hateful, but mere reportage.

Seriously, more to the point, Beck initiated this little insult-game by calling Cameron the AntiChrist.