g_bambino Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 Spare me the "without context" comments.... if there is any missing context I'm sure it will be made available by the police. Uh, maybe it will. But the point was that it's poor journalism to broadcast videos with no more story than what's in the video itself. In case you didn't notice, it leads some soft-minded people to formulate and then froth about all sorts of baseless assumptions. Quote
kimmy Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 Fight? No, no, silly; in DrG's world, injured cops should apologise to the innocent partyers for ruining a perfectly good night out. Spoil sport fascists. [c/e] oh come on. That is ridiculous. Nobody is saying that the cops shouldn't defend themselves, or that the guys they were innocent, or that the fight shouldn't have been broken up. The video starts with the guy in the yellow coat delivering kicks to the back of a guy who is already on the ground and restrained. The same guy goes and does the same later on. There was no justification for it. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Guest TrueMetis Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 No by all means intervene to break up the fights using only as much force as necessary. That's the law, even if you are defending yourself. You are not allowed to lay a beating on the person after the fact of continue to kick them once they have been neutralized. I'm definitely not ok with the cops administering a beating to someone who is no longer a threat. Define not a threat because even laying on the ground people are still a threat. Quote
wyly Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 Define not a threat because even laying on the ground people are still a threat. the man was following all orders the police gave...they told him to get down on the ground and was complying,he was on his hands and knees and there was no resistance, that's when the bald idiot in the yellow coat walked over and kicked him in the ribs followed by kneeing...this is assault, expect a lawsuit and a dismissal from the police force... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
g_bambino Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 oh come on. That is ridiculous. It would be, if I was serious. But I wasn't; I was merely mocking the stance that the OP and some subsequent responses have taken in immediately presuming, without even any valid evidence, that the people being arrested did not in any way deserve what they got, calling the police "SICKENING" and "PIGS" (all caps theirs). A tad extreme, no? The video starts with the guy in the yellow coat delivering kicks to the back of a guy who is already on the ground and restrained. The same guy goes and does the same later on. There was no justification for it. Of course, at first glance it appears rather brutal; however, even though it might have been an overreaction by that officer, how do we know there's no justification for what he was doing? Is there some evidence that the guy complying with the "sit down" order hadn't already been told to sit down one or more times before and he kept getting up? Or that, in addition to refusing to remain seated, he was one of the more violent participants in the brawl? A protagonist, perhaps? Who knows but them, right now? Quote
wyly Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 oh come on. That is ridiculous. Nobody is saying that the cops shouldn't defend themselves, or that the guys they were innocent, or that the fight shouldn't have been broken up. The video starts with the guy in the yellow coat delivering kicks to the back of a guy who is already on the ground and restrained. The same guy goes and does the same later on. There was no justification for it. -k the video isn't clear on the first person who was being beaten, he may have deserved the force that was being used... the 2nd incident doesn't look good for the police... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
eyeball Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) So which one of you guys is the cop in yellow? Ah, by taking quotes out of context you eliminate my description of the context in which the video-clip-out-of-context-was shown. What news station do you work for? I was simply comparing the amount of time it took you to come to your conclusions (seemingly the very first thought that came to you) to the time it took the pig in yellow to act on his. If I didn't know any better I'd say you were the same person. By the way I've had a day or so now to come to the conclusion this cop is definitely a pig. Edited March 25, 2010 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
wyly Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 Uh, maybe it will. But the point was that it's poor journalism to broadcast videos with no more story than what's in the video itself. In case you didn't notice, it leads some soft-minded people to formulate and then froth about all sorts of baseless assumptions. it's the only video they had it wasn't shot by a news crew...not showing it would be bad journalism, this video will be prime evidence in the trial that will likely follow... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
DogOnPorch Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 It's clear many here have never seen a street brawl outside the movies. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
wyly Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 Of course, at first glance it appears rather brutal; however, even though it might have been an overreaction by that officer, how do we know there's no justification for what he was doing? Is there some evidence that the guy complying with the "sit down" order hadn't already been told to sit down one or more times before and he kept getting up? Or that, in addition to refusing to remain seated, he was one of the more violent participants in the brawl? A protagonist, perhaps? Who knows but them, right now? which is why there will be a enquiry...the video evidence doesn't look good at this point...even from witnesses not involved in the incident thought it was an overreaction... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
blueblood Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 oh come on. That is ridiculous. Nobody is saying that the cops shouldn't defend themselves, or that the guys they were innocent, or that the fight shouldn't have been broken up. The video starts with the guy in the yellow coat delivering kicks to the back of a guy who is already on the ground and restrained. The same guy goes and does the same later on. There was no justification for it. -k For someone who has a knowledge of fighting, does being on the ground automatically mean they are not a threat? None of us know if the first guy was fully restrained, he is too far away, and more likely than not, resisting arrest by making it difficult to put the cuffs on. Gentleman number 2 was blatantly making it difficult to arrest by squirming around on the ground. Why do those guys feel the need to resist arrest? Are they going off to a death camp? I didn't know the drunk tank was that bad. Not only that those cops were severly outnumbered. There were 3 of them breaking up a brawl of 8 more, then there is the possibility of by standards getting involved. That was a very dangerous situation, and those people needed to be put in cuffs ASAP, rolling around on the ground flailing your arms around not only can cause unnecessary injury to the cop performing an arrest, the perp could also get lucky and get their side arm - then that's where the fun really begins. Perp number 2 had the opportunity to lie on the ground and put his hands behind his back and go limp, he chose not to. What happened here is far more fortunate than what happened in Alberta, 2 people with bruised ribs, versus a half a dozen people including officers beaten to a pulp. Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
wyly Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 It's clear many here have never seen a street brawl outside the movies. it's also clear some here have never seen first hand what some police are capable of...I've known a lot of cops in my life some are great guys and others shouldn't be allowed to wear the uniform... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
M.Dancer Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 If I didn't know any better You never know any better.. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
DogOnPorch Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 it's also clear some here have never seen first hand what some police are capable of...I've known a lot of cops in my life some are great guys and others shouldn't be allowed to wear the uniform... You know cops, Nazis...what's next? Mafia members? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
wyly Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 None of us know if the first guy was fully restrained, he is too far away, and more likely than not, resisting arrest by making it difficult to put the cuffs on. Gentleman number 2 was blatantly making it difficult to arrest by squirming around on the ground. gentleman number two did not resist...squirming on the ground is reaction to someone kicking him in the ribs...if someone is beating you try and avoid the blows, that's not resisting...only "bruised ribs".....my martial arts training focused on on attacking the ribs first, sensitive, relatively easy to break, disabling...downside it can cause major internal injuries, punctured lungs liver, killing someone is serious problem even when it's self defense during a brawl... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 You know cops, Nazis...what's next? Mafia members? mafia, nope...gang members criminals, a few... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
DogOnPorch Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 mafia, nope...gang members criminals, a few... You hang out with Nazis and yet call others Nazis...interesting. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
g_bambino Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 it's the only video they had it wasn't shot by a news crew...not showing it would be bad journalism, this video will be prime evidence in the trial that will likely follow... Whether or not not showing it would be bad journalism, showing it without context, or without even an admission that the wider circumstances are unknown, is bad journalism. It was presented merely for it's shock value, not as a balanced news story. Quote
g_bambino Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 I was simply comparing the amount of time it took you to come to your conclusions to the time it took the pig in yellow to act on his. And I explained to you that the difference lies in the fact that I was able to explain the context in which I saw the video, whereas the cop has not been able to explain the context in which the events in the video took place. Can you follow along? Quote
g_bambino Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 which is why there will be a enquiry... And such is the appropriate thing to do, as opposed to jumping to conclusions. Quote
wyly Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 Whether or not not showing it would be bad journalism, showing it without context, or without even an admission that the wider circumstances are unknown, is bad journalism. It was presented merely for it's shock value, not as a balanced news story. sitting on a story isn't journalism... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
g_bambino Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 sitting on a story isn't journalism... I never said it was. Quote
wyly Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 And such is the appropriate thing to do, as opposed to jumping to conclusions. right and there will be an enquiry...on the evidence we've seen it doesn't look good... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 I never said it was. they went with what they had, a cel phone video and bystander accounts...do you suggest that we(the public)be with held information about events until well after they occur? who gets to judge when sufficient information has been gathered?... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
g_bambino Posted March 25, 2010 Report Posted March 25, 2010 do you suggest that we(the public) be with held information about events until well after they occur? What defines "well after"? Do you think all media reporting comes to you live? The event had already taken place. If the need to air the footage of it immediately somehow trumped the option of sending a reporter to do some prior investigation, then there should have been, as I said, at least a caveat that the surrounding circumstances were unknown. There was neither. Quote
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