No Extradition for Marc Emery

[M.Dancer]

Venezuela has an existing treaty with the USA and the US refuses to extradite Luis Posada Carriles an ex CIA operative who escaped custody in Venezuela on charges he blew up a civilian airliner...

The US courst ruled against extradition because of the threast he would be tortured. Never the less, he sits in a Jail.

[DrGreenthumb]

Marc is a civil rights hero in Canada. Extraditing him will just be one more nail in the Conservative party's coffin.

[fellowtraveller]

but do we extradite a man crime where the punishment we consider out of line with our standards? what if some country wanted to extradite a Canadian for petty theft and the punishment is amputation of the hand or life in prison, do we send him?

How is it beyond our standards. The sentence Emery got is well within the Candian guidelines for trafficking drugs.

Your question makes no sense at all, since nobody seeks or grants extradition for petty crimes.

[M.Dancer]

Marc is a civil rights hero in Canada. Extraditing him will just be one more nail in the Conservative party's coffin.

I didn't realize trafficking was a civil rights issue.

[fellowtraveller]

That's what I understand as well, he wanted to do it. He wanted to get caught. But if he wanted only to get rich, then he wouldn't have wanted to get caught, so I think your conclusion about his motives is incorrect.

But regardless of the motive, he broke the laws in Canada and apparently did so for quite a few years, he claims he declared it on his taxes and payed large sums of money to the Canadian government. Yet no one from Revenue Canada or the RCMP made a move to arrest him.

I read his blog, in it he claims that Health Canada referred medical marijuana patients to his site for a source of seeds. There is no way to independantly verify this. But if that's inconceivable, still the previous point remains unanswered, why he was not arrested under Canadian law and instead is being handed over to the United States?

I think it's because, no court in Canada would convict him, or if they did then he would get a fairly light sentence and be out of jail in a short time, to do it again. If you agree with this theory, then it implies that Canadian authorities are using US courts and laws to circumvent the problem of getting a conviction. It's more than likely that he will face a much longer prison term in the US than he would ever get for the same crime here in Canada.

That is utterly riduclous, in whole and in part.

He did not want to get caught selling dope in the US or anywhere else, if he did he could have popped across the border and been busted in 5 seconds. He didn't , even though he is supposedly some honourable "folk hero".

The reason he didn't is because he was making millions of dolars from selling seeds by mail to the US, and why would he ionterrupt that revenue stream.

It does not matter that Canada did not charge him, he did not go to jail for what he did here, he went to jail for the crimes he committed elsewhere.

And his motivation is not anything so silly as a belief in the injustice of the law, or any in any way noble.

His motive was greed, plain and simple, and now he pays for his price and selfishness. The only decent thing this arsehole has done for years is spare his family and staff from joining him in jail.

[wyly]

How is it beyond our standards. The sentence Emery got is well within the Candian guidelines for trafficking drugs.

Your question makes no sense at all, since nobody seeks or grants extradition for petty crimes.

in Canada it's viewed and treated as a petty crime...it's subjective to your POV, adultery or homosexuality here is not even a crime yet in some countries it brings the death penalty...

[M.Dancer]

in Canada it's viewed and treated as a petty crime...

Comox Valley RCMP have arrested Daniel Anthony Kostantin, charging him with production of marijuana, possession for the purpose of trafficking marijuana plants, trafficking marijuana seeds and breach of an undertaking. The RCMP are also recommending charges of possession of marijuana for the purpose of exporting and two charges of trafficking marijuana seeds.

http://www.canada.com/vancouverisland/comoxvalleyecho/story.html?id=5207f487-b793-4000-af91-169f72458348

[Guest TrueMetis]

How is it beyond our standards. The sentence Emery got is well within the Candian guidelines for trafficking drugs.

Your question makes no sense at all, since nobody seeks or grants extradition for petty crimes.

In Canada he would get a few months and probation. At least that's what Justice Richard Low, Mary Newbury, and Anne Rowles say.

My link

Comox Valley RCMP have arrested Daniel Anthony Kostantin, charging him with production of marijuana, possession for the purpose of trafficking marijuana plants, trafficking marijuana seeds and breach of an undertaking. The RCMP are also recommending charges of possession of marijuana for the purpose of exporting and two charges of trafficking marijuana seeds.

http://www.canada.com/vancouverisland/comoxvalleyecho/story.html?id=5207f487-b793-4000-af91-169f72458348

He was sentanced to 30 days. Says so in the asticle I linked above.

[Guest American Woman]

That is utterly riduclous, in whole and in part.

He did not want to get caught selling dope in the US or anywhere else, if he did he could have popped across the border and been busted in 5 seconds. He didn't , even though he is supposedly some honourable "folk hero".

My thoughts exactly, which is why I asked for a source verifying that he wanted to get caught in the U.S., and I've seen nothing to indicate that he did. Like you said, all he would have had to do is step foot in the U.S. and he would have been arrested. Obviously he's been avoiding that at all costs. Some hero, is right. Imagine Rosa Parks hiding behind the skirts of someone else when she was standing up for Black's civil rights the way Emery is hiding behind the Canadian government's skirt. Such bravery and conviction selling to Americans from the safety of Canadian soil.

Edited March 18, 2010 by American Woman

[Sir Bandelot]

He did not want to get caught selling dope in the US or anywhere else, if he did he could have popped across the border and been busted in 5 seconds. He didn't , even though he is supposedly some honourable "folk hero".

The point is not to get arrested and simply disappear from view while spending time in jail, as so many have done before. The point is to make as much publicity out of it as possible, to raise public awareness of the injustice of pot laws and imprisonment of people over a plant.

Emery is not the typical seed seller or underground pot dealer you might think he is. If you read the article a few posts back you'll note his activities were intended to be highly visible, he flaunted what he was doing very publicly. He has made several tours across Canada as a public speaker, he started his own political party, has run in several elections municipal, provincial and federal. He has had meetings with political leaders including but not only Jack Layton. He sold many seeds and donated a lot of his money, millions according to him to fund pro-marijuana legalization efforts in both Canada and the United States. Things like rallies, magazines, dispensaries, support for political groups and bail money for activists. This is one reason why he is being singled out by the US, as the US prosecutor DA himself proclaimed, the imprisonment of Marc Emery strikes a blow to the legalization movement. And I can provide you the links to that quote if you don't believe it. Because that is where Emery's main efforts have been directed.

"In 2002, Emery founded the Iboga Therapy House, an ibogaine-assisted detoxification therapy program located on BC's Sunshine Coast. Emery and his staff offered free ibogaine therapy to volunteer heroin and cocaine addicts with a plant-based alkaloid called ibogaine, which eliminates withdrawal symptoms and helps produce the mental change needed to quit using."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Emery#Iboga_Therapy_House

"Today's DEA arrest of Marc Scott Emery, publisher of Cannabis Culture Magazine, and the founder of a marijuana legalization group -- is a signficant blow not only to the marijuana trafficking trade in the U.S. and Canada, but also to the marijuana legalization movement."

Karen Tandy, American DEA Administrator (Same link as above)

From the 60 minutes interview/ transcript:

"I am blessed by what the DEA has done," Emery said. "I'd rather see marijuana legalized than me being saved from a U.S. jail."

"Your language is pretty much that of a martyr," Simon remarked.

"The language I like to use is one of a person, a leader who's confident and prepared to accept the punishment that noble purpose will bring about," Emery replied.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/articles/4686.html

If he's a just a drug dealer, why do all this to bring so much attention to himself, to make himself so visible in breaking the law? Because he believes it is unjust, and wants the law to be struck down. Al Capone would never agree.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Sir Bandelot

[DrGreenthumb]

The point is not to get arrested and simply disappear from view while spending time in jail, as so many have done before. The point is to make as much publicity out of it as possible, to raise public awareness of the injustice of pot laws and imprisonment of people over a plant.

Emery is not the typical seed seller or underground pot dealer you might think he is. If you read the article a few posts back you'll note his activities were intended to be highly visible, he flaunted what he was doing very publicly. He has made several tours across Canada as a public speaker, he started his own political party, has run in several elections municipal, provincial and federal. He has had meetings with political leaders including but not only Jack Layton. He sold many seeds and donated a lot of his money, millions according to him to fund pro-marijuana legalization efforts in both Canada and the United States. Things like rallies, magazines, dispensaries, support for political groups and bail money for activists. This is one reason why he is being singled out by the US, as the US prosecutor DA himself proclaimed, the imprisonment of Marc Emery strikes a blow to the legalization movement. And I can provide you the links to that quote if you don't believe it. Because that is where Emery's main efforts have been directed.

"In 2002, Emery founded the Iboga Therapy House, an ibogaine-assisted detoxification therapy program located on BC's Sunshine Coast. Emery and his staff offered free ibogaine therapy to volunteer heroin and cocaine addicts with a plant-based alkaloid called ibogaine, which eliminates withdrawal symptoms and helps produce the mental change needed to quit using."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Emery#Iboga_Therapy_House

"Today's DEA arrest of Marc Scott Emery, publisher of Cannabis Culture Magazine, and the founder of a marijuana legalization group -- is a signficant blow not only to the marijuana trafficking trade in the U.S. and Canada, but also to the marijuana legalization movement."

Karen Tandy, American DEA Administrator (Same link as above)

From the 60 minutes interview/ transcript:

"I am blessed by what the DEA has done," Emery said. "I'd rather see marijuana legalized than me being saved from a U.S. jail."

"Your language is pretty much that of a martyr," Simon remarked.

"The language I like to use is one of a person, a leader who's confident and prepared to accept the punishment that noble purpose will bring about," Emery replied.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/articles/4686.html

If he's a just a drug dealer, why do all this to bring so much attention to himself, to make himself so visible in breaking the law? Because he believes it is unjust, and wants the law to be struck down. Al Capone would never agree.

Thank you for such a good summary. Emery is a hero to millions of Canadians AND Americans. He put himself in harm's way for OUR benefit! He gave away almost all the money to legalization activities. You Emery haters are not worthy to clean the shit off the man's shoes.

[Guest American Woman]

Thank you for such a good summary. Emery is a hero to millions of Canadians AND Americans. He put himself in harm's way for OUR benefit! He gave away almost all the money to legalization activities. You Emery haters are not worthy to clean the shit off the man's shoes.

Oh please. Spare me the "hate" rhetoric. Everyone doesn't see him in the same light you do, so they "hate" him?

As for "putting himself in harm's way," what a load of crap (must be how he gets the "shit on his shoes" that you refer to). Selling seeds to Americans through the mail, while hiding behind the protection of Canada, is in no way "putting himself in harm's way." Let him set foot in the U.S., then I'll see him as something other than a coward.

[M.Dancer]

He was sentanced to 30 days. Says so in the asticle I linked above.

Yes but the crown want 15 months...showing that it is not considered a petty crime (nothing over a year is considered petty).

He had no record.....he was lucky.

[DrGreenthumb]

Oh please. Spare me the "hate" rhetoric. Everyone doesn't see him in the same light you do, so they "hate" him?

As for "putting himself in harm's way," what a load of crap (must be how he gets the "shit on his shoes" that you refer to). Selling seeds to Americans through the mail, while hiding behind the protection of Canada, is in no way "putting himself in harm's way." Let him set foot in the U.S., then I'll see him as something other than a coward.

I usually think your posts are quite good but your Emery hate is clouding your judgement obviously, or maybe it is your cannabis hate. Marc is facing extradition for selling seeds by mail into the states and was facing life in prison, still facing 5 years in prison. How is that not putting himself in harm's way? It's not like that is all he has done for the movement either. That is only how he financed most of his activism. I remember being at a rally in winnipeg on the steps of the PSB (the main jail in wpg) during a time when the pot laws were technically struck down, but still being enforced. Marc was on tour to protest the continued arrest of our people, and lit a 4 ft Cannuck's bong right in front of about 30 cops, a couple of hundred bystanders, and all the local news media. The pigs hauled him off to jail for the night, but the charges were eventually dropped, because Marc was right and Canada at the time had NO LAW PROHIBITING POT. In fact the crown ended up being forced to drop 6000 other people's charges across Canada. Marc is a hero who puts himself at risk for all the people who are too afraid to stand up to the state themselves.

[nicky10013]

Oh please. Spare me the "hate" rhetoric. Everyone doesn't see him in the same light you do, so they "hate" him?

As for "putting himself in harm's way," what a load of crap (must be how he gets the "shit on his shoes" that you refer to). Selling seeds to Americans through the mail, while hiding behind the protection of Canada, is in no way "putting himself in harm's way." Let him set foot in the U.S., then I'll see him as something other than a coward.

Because illegally bombing a country isn't cowardly at all. You never responded to what I had to say. Americans never follow rules that they don't like. So, isn't it rather hypocritical that you're demanding we submit to American Justice when it's a stated US policy never to join the ICC because god forbid US soldiers commit war crimes and would be tried where they belong; in front of an international tribunal?

As I said before, "where you do the crime, you do the time" is a lot more complicated than you make it out to be. Guess the State Department should drop all attempts to get Americans out of jail in countries where they are being tortured, because you know, that kind of thing is legal there.

[M.Dancer]

Because illegally bombing a country isn't cowardly at all. You never responded to what I had to say. Americans never follow rules that they don't like. So, isn't it rather hypocritical that you're demanding we submit to American Justice when it's a stated US policy never to join the ICC because god forbid US soldiers commit war crimes and would be tried where they belong; in front of an international tribunal?

As I said before, "where you do the crime, you do the time" is a lot more complicated than you make it out to be. Guess the State Department should drop all attempts to get Americans out of jail in countries where they are being tortured, because you know, that kind of thing is legal there.

Holy league of irrelevancies.....ICC? illegal bombing?

|for the record, you are correct, do the time where you do the crime....he violated US Mail law..in the US he will do his time.

Bye Bye Emory!!

[Guest American Woman]

I usually think your posts are quite good but your Emery hate is clouding your judgement obviously, or maybe it is your cannabis hate.

So now I hate pot as well as Emery?

I don't think it's my judgement that's being clouded by such nonsense, since I'm not making any moronic judgments about you and/or your views. I don't agree with you about Emery. Again. That doesn't mean I hate him, nor does it mean I hate pot. It means I don't see him as the hero you see him as. It means I think he's a coward for selling to Americans through the mail while refusing to set foot in the U.S. as he's passed off as some sort of risk-taking civil rights advocate/hero.

Marc is facing extradition for selling seeds by mail into the states and was facing life in prison, still facing 5 years in prison. How is that not putting himself in harm's way?

I've already explained it. As long as he is hiding behind the Canadian government, he is not putting himself in harm's way. By selling through the mail, but not stepping foot in the U.S. to fight the cause he so strongly believes in, he is not putting himself in harm's way, because I believe he felt he was immune to U.S. prosecution as long as he remained in Canada, selling seeds to Americans solely through the mail.

It's not like that is all he has done for the movement either. That is only how he financed most of his activism. I remember being at a rally in winnipeg on the steps of the PSB (the main jail in wpg) during a time when the pot laws were technically struck down, but still being enforced. Marc was on tour to protest the continued arrest of our people, and lit a 4 ft Cannuck's bong right in front of about 30 cops, a couple of hundred bystanders, and all the local news media. The pigs hauled him off to jail for the night, but the charges were eventually dropped, because Marc was right and Canada at the time had NO LAW PROHIBITING POT.

If Canada had no laws prohibiting pot, then he was not putting himself in harm's way by lighting up in front of cops, right?

In fact the crown ended up being forced to drop 6000 other people's charges across Canada. Marc is a hero who puts himself at risk for all the people who are too afraid to stand up to the state themselves.

He's your hero. Not mine. He broke the law. Knowingly. Purposely. That's a bit different from lighting up a bong when he knew there was no law prohibiting it. When he owns up to that fact, when he sets foot in the U.S. to 'fight for people's rights,' when he lights up a 4 foot bong right in front of about 30 cops in the U.S., then I'll respect him as someone willing to put himself in harm's way; but so far all I see him as is breaking U.S. law from the safety of Canada.

[nicky10013]

Holy league of irrelevancies.....ICC? illegal bombing?

|for the record, you are correct, do the time where you do the crime....he violated US Mail law..in the US he will do his time.

Bye Bye Emory!!

It's the same principle but of course we can count on you not to understand the intricacies of such situations. Why is it that we should extradite someone for a crime by all accounts we punish to the extent of a misdemeanour, to a country that has a proven track record of not living up to the same principle we're being held to right now?

It's a fair question.

[M.Dancer]

It's the same principle but of course we can count on you not to understand the intricacies of such situations. Why is it that we should extradite someone for a crime by all accounts we punish to the extent of a misdemeanour, to a country that has a proven track record of not living up to the same principle we're being held to right now?

It's a fair question.

International law, the law that governs the conduct of nations is the same principle as criminal law? I hope you don't want me to accord that statement withg any credibility.

We are not extraditing Emory, the US is. The Canada US extradition treaty does not say, we will only allow extradition if the sentences are equal...only that if yours or our laws are broken, the accused will be turned over for their day in court.

[Sir Bandelot]

The Canada US extradition treaty does not say, we will only allow extradition if the sentences are equal...only that if yours or our laws are broken, the accused will be turned over for their day in court.

It does say that the extradition cannot be politically motivated.

Refusal in extradition agreement

46. (1)The Minister shall refuse to make a surrender order if the Minister is satisfied that

c) the conduct in respect of which extradition is sought is a political offence or an offence of a political character.

The crime must also be a punishable crime in Canada.

47. The Minister may refuse to make a surrender order if the Minister is satisfied that

(a) the person would be entitled, if that person were tried in Canada, to be discharged under the laws of Canada because of a previous acquittal or conviction;

They should have arrested him since they must have known about his illegal activities. He continually informed them directly and through the media, for years. Had they done so then section D below would probably apply-

(d) the conduct in respect of which the request for extradition is made is the subject of criminal proceedings in Canada against the person

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/E-23.01/page-2.html?noCookie

Edited March 20, 2010 by Sir Bandelot