Are the Conservatives now in trouble?

[maplesyrup]

Tories deny bilingualism program changes

The issue flared Thursday after Scott Reid, an Ottawa area MP and the Conservative candidate for the riding of Lanark-Frontenac-Lennox and Addington, was quoted in the Moncton Times and Herald News as saying he supports removing Ottawa's obligation to offer bilingual services across much of Canada and that the senior civil servants no longer should be required to speak both of the country's official languages

The problem for the Harper Conservatives here is that Scott Reid is the Harper-appointed Bilingualism critic for the Conservatives.

[Kliege]

Nah this is a one day story thanks to your guy Jack Layton this will be way down on the news list. Martins outrage will be on the front pages of all the newspapers across Canada not this Maple.

Plus this election will be decided in Ontario, not Quebec the Bloc as locked that province up.

[maplesyrup]

I think it may have actually have an impact in the franchophone areas, including Quebec, of the country.

[willy]

Conservatives aren't likely to win many seats in Quebec anyway. However;

Harper has been clear that he will champion biligualism. That is party policy.

[BigGunner]

This gaffe will hurt the conservatives, especially in Quebec.

Quebec is a province that the tories need to win seats, if not an outright majority if ever they want to sit on the governing side of the HOC. With this blunder, the tories can forget any kind of working arrangement if they were in a position to form a minority gov't.

This won't play well in bilingual communities in Ontario and the Maritimes too...where they might have been looking for an alternative to the liberals, now I'm sure they will look away from the tories and perhaps to the Montreal born Jack Layton.

The Jack Layton/homeless/Martin rant might be more outrageous if it wasn't true...but most people understand that Paul Martin cut the federal housing program and it did lead to a sharp increase in homelessness...death by exposure to the extreme elements is a natural byproduct.

Liberal spin doctors attempted to pin this on Mulroney, but it was infact Martin who shut the program down.

I don't know about the eastern media, but out here on the west, it was a positive story for Layton as the media went to town and also blamed Martin for shutting down the housing program.

I predict: Layton bounce in the polls.

[idealisttotheend]

Ah, the Reform/Alliance/Conservaties are alive and well. Another case of the foot in the mouth disease they must catch at fundraisers or something. Harper must be livid, he's been working hard to prevent this kind of thing even though it is the basis of a grassroots system.

[Kliege]

I don't see why this would hurt the Conservaties the only places it would matter is in Quebec and the CPC is in the low double digits there. With Martin being sued and Jack layton running his mouth this should be old news by Sunday. As long Harper stays clear of any problems this will go the way of Goodales comments.

The story in the papers will be Martin being sued and Jack Laytons big mouth.

[August1991]

Good fun. This is 1979 all over again, sort of. Tory candidates in English Canada, by chance, embarrassed Clark. Clark bent over backwards to say he was open to Quebec. End result? Big headlines in English Canada, no headlines in Quebec. Clark won 2 seats of 75 in Quebec.

Stephen Harper will be EXTREMELY lucky if the Tories get two seats in Quebec. But the future augurs differently. You figure.

What have I heard about Harper in Quebec? Here goes:

First, his accent in French is extremely irritating (true). Second, c'est un vrai bloke. Third, "C'est ton voisin straight que t'as envie de séduire".

Conclusion? Go figure.

[Kliege]

I agree most of the support that the CPC would need in Quebec are Bloc voters and as long as the Bloc is around the CPC will not be able to have a foothold in Quebec. So this story isn't big.

On the National it was the third story and it didn't even get the opening headline. Guess what did? Jack Layton big mouth and Paul Martin being sued. When the CBC thinks its a low end story then you know its much to about nothing. After today its old news.

Friday Paul Martin is going to announce deal on gas tax sharing

I wonder why Martin couldn't do this four weeks ago.

[Alliance Fanatic]

Why does'nt anybody criticize Quebec for their langauge policies. The fact is bilingualism does need a major overhaul. For example in BC their is'nt much of a need for french speaking civil servants, but their is a need for Mandirin speaking ones.

My opinion, leave langauge policy up to the provinces

[Goldie]

“You know what maybe some people who prefer to speak French can speak French. There are Croatians who speak Croatian. There’s the Serbians who speak Serbian. Good luck to them but I think the official language is English. French can be a second language.”

(Hec Cloutier, Former Liberal MP, Vancouver Sun, April 8, 1998)

“With regards to official bilingualism, it’s an Ottawa imposed, impractical, bureaucratic, coast to coast policy that won’t work.”

(Joe Peschisolido, Liberal MP, February 19, 2000)

"On a poet-laureate for each official language: “I would rather the bill die then have some type of – I don't like saying, it because it's an unkind word – some type of artificial duality. In my mind, to establish this duality ... is against the idea of one Canada.”

(Senator Jerry Grafstein, Ottawa Citizen, June 13, 2001)

“You know some people have lived in a dream world for years… Maybe it’s time they wake up – there’s an English Canada and a French Canada.”

(Jean Lapierre, Martin's Quebec Lieutenant and Liberal Candidate, Kitchener-Waterloo Record, March 16, 1990)

And you guys think the conservatives have problems.

This was not a gaffe, the guy (Scott Ried) wrote a book about his feelings and they are not party policy. What, only Liberals can say the obvious?

[BigGunner]

Why does'nt anybody criticize Quebec for their langauge policies. The fact is bilingualism does need a major overhaul. For example in BC their is'nt much of a need for french speaking civil servants, but their is a need for Mandirin speaking ones.

My opinion, leave langauge policy up to the provinces

Oddly enough, I agree

The provinces, and perhaps the cities themselves have a better idea of what language requirements are needed for government services...instead of a politically appointed bookworm in Ottawa.

[maplesyrup]

Well, when I moved to BC I was very disappointed with the lack of French. I think it is time for us to revisit this issue, and develop policies that will fully bilingualize all Canadians in English and French.

But getting back to Reid's gaffe. I can almost guarantee you the Liberals will have a field day with it, and it will be used in Quebec, in parts of the Maritimes, parts of northern Ontario, and parts of Manitoba, against the Conservatives. It is a real hot button issue in Canada

[BigGunner]

Well, when I moved to BC I was very disappointed with the lack of French. I think it is time for us to revisit this issue, and develop policies that will fully bilingualize all Canadians in English and French.

But getting back to Reid's gaffe. I can almost guarantee you the Liberals will have a field day with it, and it will be used in Quebec, in parts of the Maritimes, parts of northern Ontario, and parts of Manitoba, against the Conservatives. It is a real hot button issue in Canada

You cannot impose a culture. Especially in BC.

BC is THE most culturally diverse area of the country, and french is one of them.

Imposing a culture or language is a can of worms that would be very stupid to open. This kind of thinking comes from the right, not the left. Only rightists would impose a culture or religion on someone.

[maplesyrup]

Scott Reid is the first casualty of this mess - he has had to resign from his position in the Conservative party as bilingualism critic.

Also interesting to note that the PC forced the Alliance to adopt a progressive position on bilingualism as part of the merger agreement.

[Goldie]

Just wondering if this would make a difference. What if he was speaking for a majority of his constituents? Would it be o.k. to state thier opinion?

[Kliege]

Im sure the Liberals will try to make an issue out of anything they can get there hands on. The way the Liberal campaign and Paul Martin run this week is weak and just a sign of things to come.

The CPC isn't a factor in Quebec in this election, plus the areas in northern Ontario were there are high french population such as Ottawa-Vanier, Glengarry-Prescott-Russell and Ottawa-Orléans are already strong liberal ridings. Plus the only place outside Quebec were this would matter is in the western part of New Brunswick and Saint Bonifance. Reid as resign his post the story will be dead by sunday.

[Argus]

This gaffe will hurt the conservatives, especially in Quebec.

Quebecers weren't going to vote Conservative in enough numbers for them to win any seats anyway.

Quebec is a province that the tories need to win seats, if not an outright majority if ever they want to sit on the governing side of the HOC. With this blunder, the tories can forget any kind of working arrangement if they were in a position to form a minority gov't.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but neither the BQ nor either of the Quebec provincial governments supports official bilingualism.. Do you really think the government of Quebec gives a crap whether post offices in rural Alberta are providing fully bilingual services? Nor do the Tories need Quebec votes now that the seat numbers have risen so much in western Canada and Alberta.

This won't play well in bilingual communities in Ontario and the Maritimes too...where they might have been looking for an alternative to the liberals

Realistically, Francophones vote Liberal. They have for decades. You rarely find any Tories or NDP candidates getting elected in ridings with substantial Francophone numbers. You certainly don't around here.

[Argus]

I think it may have actually have an impact in the franchophone areas, including Quebec, of the country.

Francophone areas vote Liberal. They always have. They always will. It doesn't matter what the Tories do, or, for that matter, what the Liberals do. Francophones vote Liberal. Except in Quebec, of course, where they have their PQ/BQ as well.

[Argus]

Scott Reid is the first casualty of this mess - he has had to resign from his position in the Conservative party as bilingualism critic.

Also interesting to note that the PC forced the Alliance to adopt a progressive position on bilingualism as part of the merger agreement.

You consider it progessive. Most of us Anglos who have to live under it don't. I frankly doubt the majority of Tory candidates wouldn't agree with what Reid said. He was fired for opening his mouth in public about it. I'm sure they were all told before the election not to express any peresonal opinions, not to make any deviations from party policy for any reason, on issues related to Quebec, the French, immigration or minorities.

The tories don't want any more "asian invasion" messes on their hands. That candidate in Winnipeg was actually pro immigration, believe it or not. And her talk was pro immigration, though few ever realized it. Because she provided one perfect sound byte the Liberals could use to make the Alliance seem like racists who were anti-immigrant and anti Asian. The rest of her speech was ignored.

Likewise, from what I've heard, Reid did not say anything very startling. He said there would be no change without some kind of national consensus. But that won't be reported on much. It will just be reported that a Tory MP spoke out against bilingualism and wanting it cut.

[Rob1963]

Argus, Here in Nova Scotia, there are several ridings with substantial francophone populations which vote Tory and NDP. West Nova is a good example with a large francophone population which traditionally alternates between a Liberal and a Tory member. If there was a Tory running this time, it would be their turn.

None-the-less, I think I read many comments here from (I assume) Conservative Party supporters who support what Mr. Reid said. That is fine, let's have a debate in this election on the matter. But of course, Harper feels it won't sell to the public, so he says what he thinks Canadians want to hear, despite what his Party supports.

Can you trust a leader, or a Party, for that matter, which puts out a platform which goes against the thinking of a majority of it's membership? Are they saying what they think we want to hear, and if they are elected, will they be able to implement their platform?

They go out of their way to say that they are a progressive Party, but what happens when an issue that hasn't come up in this election, comes up and we have elected the Conservatives? Do you trust them to handle it the way you want it handled? (Remember, Same-sex marriage wasn't an issue in 2000, neither was the Iraq War, national security, and a host of other items).

[willy]

Rob1963, parties are not homogenous. This is why they have party policy that all candidates agree to support. People in the Liberal Party hold the same view as do some of the NDP. I was talking to a Conservative supporter yesterday and I would have thought he was NDP but on military spending he was clear that he supported the Conservative point of view. It comes down to where individual hot button issues are. Many Conservatives may be in favour of getting rid of bilingualism out west but it is so far down the priority list why even go there.

[Argus]

None-the-less, I think I read many comments here from (I assume) Conservative Party supporters who support what Mr. Reid said. That is fine, let's have a debate in this election on the matter. But of course, Harper feels it won't sell to the public, so he says what he thinks Canadians want to hear, despite what his Party supports.

Can you trust a leader, or a Party, for that matter, which puts out a platform which goes against the thinking of a majority of it's membership?

I doubt you will find a majority of Liberal supporters who, if they actually understand all of what the present policy incorporates, would like it either.

However, there has been, in this country, for some time now, the generally agreed view on the part of the major parties and the media that anyone who isn't 100% enthusiastic about Official Bilingualism is evil incarnate, worse than a child molester, someone to be lumped in with Nazis and racists and such.

That is why bilingualism was never discussed on the national stage before the Reform Party showed up. No politician either wanted to or, if they wanted to, dared to bring up any problems with it.

A year or so back an Alliance MP dared to get up in the House and suggest that perhaps there were aspects of Official Bilingualism as it was being applied within the civil service which were unfair to Anglos. Well, what a stink. Don Boudria got up in all his righteous indignation and declared he had never in his life heard such an insulting question. Sheila Copps got up and said this was an indication of what bigots the Alliance were. His own party repudiated him and he wound up sitting as an independent.

You CAN NOT suggest that something is unfair to Anglos, not in this country. It isn't allowed. Official Bilingualism consumes hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars each year, but you CAN NOT question its value or cost or whether any aspect of it is wrong or unfair.

The government has a deliberate policy of seeking out and french speakers abroad willing to settle in areas of Alberta, Mannitoba, Ontario, etc. where there are small French communities in order to bolster the size of those communities. There is, of course, NO such program to bring in English speakers to bolster the size of English speaking minority communities in Quebec. And if there was, you can imagine the absolute uproar it would cause in Quebec.

[Rob1963]

Willy, you ask ...why go there? Because, right or wrong... good or bad, it is a major part of Canada's identity. It is a major policy area.

Argus, I doubt, you would find many, let alone a majority of, Liberal Party members who disagree with major areas in their policy. Maybe they do, but I doubt it.

I'm not sure if I understand whether you agree with Official Bilingualism as it is currently set up or not.

If the Conservative Party does not, They should not be afraid to state their position and support it during an election (or anytime for that matter).

[maplesyrup]

Do we want the Liberals to rule this country forever? Well they will if the opposition don't get their act together on basic Canadian values, and bilingualism is one of them. If Conservatives were smart they would promote French more than the Lberals do. Then watch the changes in voting patterns in this country.

Anyway kudos to Stephen Harper who has taken the time to learn to speak French.