Kenney Pulls Gay Rights from Citizenship Guide

[g_bambino]

Thanks Mr. Canada if only I knew that all I had to do was "choose" to be straight I would have done so years ago!

You could well have; people who are devoutly heterosexual are such by choice; they choose never to cross the sexual bounds they've set for themselves, and you could've choosen to reign yourself in by the same.

Who knows why you would, though. "Straight" is just as constricting a label as "gay".

[ToadBrother]

It is?!? Holy Crap I'm cured! Thanks Mr. Canada if only I knew that all I had to do was "choose" to be straight I would have done so years ago!

Tell me what day did you wake up and say "I could be gay and well while it is tempting I think that I'm choosing to be straight. Yes I've weighed the pros and cons ever so carefully and straight is definitely the right choice."

Do you even know a gay person? Anyone in your family gay?

You have to forgive Mr. C. He was subjected to an army of penises at a Pride Parade he "accidentally" watched.

[Mr.Canada]

It is?!? Holy Crap I'm cured! Thanks Mr. Canada if only I knew that all I had to do was "choose" to be straight I would have done so years ago!

Tell me what day did you wake up and say "I could be gay and well while it is tempting I think that I'm choosing to be straight. Yes I've weighed the pros and cons ever so carefully and straight is definitely the right choice."

Do you even know a gay person? Anyone in your family gay?

Yes, many gay people choose to live a life of promiscuity. Gay people for the most part aren't monogamous very often and often have multiple sexual partners. This is what facilitated the spread of HIV in the early 80's. It is believed that HIV patient ZERO was a gay man from Montreal who was a flight attendant.

They could alternatively choose to not live this way but many do not. Now, I'm not saying all but many. Perhaps you're the sort of homosexual who enjoys a monogamous homosexual relationship but many of your people do not. I'm sure you know this already, I'd even say the majority do not. The village in Toronto is a prime example of this. Often time resulting in unprotected anal cavity sex. When people are thrusting their penises into another persons anus, the place where they bm from I don't understand how they could want to do that with several people not knowing if they're clean or what not. I don't understand it but w/e. Maybe when they cheat it's only oral sex, I have no idea just speculation.

However the proliferation of HIV through the gay commnity tells me that promiscuity or anal sex with multiple partners is still a huge problem plagueing the gay community. Down there in the village there is an AIDS clinic so you see all sorts of people with AIDS and HIV walking around. It's sad really and I would hope that at some point the gay community would stop infecting each other and be more responsible but who knows....it's sad.

I have known gay people yes, this is where I draw my conclusions from in addition to my ownresearch and observation of this behaviour in their natural environment. I don't know if it's still their but the Second Cup on Church was a great place to observe, I was constantly hit on but it was worth it in order to learn about these people and their habits. This was years ago as I used to be homeless as a youth and young adult and their was a youth shelter close by, it might be still there on Wellsley.

Anyone in my family gay? Not that I know of. If they were I would tryand presuade them not to make a lifestyle choice that would be harmful to them and to us as it is the rest of that homosexuals family that is left to pick up the pieces after they get sick.

I hope this answers your questions. I am answered it as honestly as possible and I am trying to be a non argumentative as possible. This is based on my own experiences, observations, conversations I've had with gay people and research.

[Shakeyhands]

Yes, many gay people choose to live a life of promiscuity. Gay people for the most part aren't monogamous very often and often have multiple sexual partners. This is what facilitated the spread of HIV in the early 80's. It is believed that HIV patient ZERO was a gay man from Montreal who was a flight attendant.

They could alternatively choose to not live this way but many do not. Now, I'm not saying all but many. Perhaps you're the sort of homosexual who enjoys a monogamous homosexual relationship but many of your people do not. I'm sure you know this already, I'd even say the majority do not. The village in Toronto is a prime example of this. Often time resulting in unprotected anal cavity sex. When people are thrusting their penises into another persons anus, the place where they bm from I don't understand how they could want to do that with several people not knowing if they're clean or what not. I don't understand it but w/e. Maybe when they cheat it's only oral sex, I have no idea just speculation.

However the proliferation of HIV through the gay commnity tells me that promiscuity or anal sex with multiple partners is still a huge problem plagueing the gay community. Down there in the village there is an AIDS clinic so you see all sorts of people with AIDS and HIV walking around. It's sad really and I would hope that at some point the gay community would stop infecting each other and be more responsible but who knows....it's sad.

I have known gay people yes, this is where I draw my conclusions from in addition to my ownresearch and observation of this behaviour in their natural environment. I don't know if it's still their but the Second Cup on Church was a great place to observe, I was constantly hit on but it was worth it in order to learn about these people and their habits. This was years ago as I used to be homeless as a youth and young adult and their was a youth shelter close by, it might be still there on Wellsley.

Anyone in my family gay? Not that I know of. If they were I would tryand presuade them not to make a lifestyle choice that would be harmful to them and to us as it is the rest of that homosexuals family that is left to pick up the pieces after they get sick.

I hope this answers your questions. I am answered it as honestly as possible and I am trying to be a non argumentative as possible. This is based on my own experiences, observations, conversations I've had with gay people and research.

You are so dishonest. You know damn well that the "choice" to be promiscuous or not wasn't the choice being discussed.

By the way, being a street kid and hanging around "the steps" in boys town is giving me ideas as to how you may have survived the street and your feelings towards homosexuals now.

and by the way, there are all kinds of promiscuous people in the world that practice unsafe sex, gay or hetero.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Shakeyhands

[blueblood]

Yes, many gay people choose to live a life of promiscuity. Gay people for the most part aren't monogamous very often and often have multiple sexual partners. This is what facilitated the spread of HIV in the early 80's. It is believed that HIV patient ZERO was a gay man from Montreal who was a flight attendant.

They could alternatively choose to not live this way but many do not. Now, I'm not saying all but many. Perhaps you're the sort of homosexual who enjoys a monogamous homosexual relationship but many of your people do not. I'm sure you know this already, I'd even say the majority do not. The village in Toronto is a prime example of this. Often time resulting in unprotected anal cavity sex. When people are thrusting their penises into another persons anus, the place where they bm from I don't understand how they could want to do that with several people not knowing if they're clean or what not. I don't understand it but w/e. Maybe when they cheat it's only oral sex, I have no idea just speculation.

However the proliferation of HIV through the gay commnity tells me that promiscuity or anal sex with multiple partners is still a huge problem plagueing the gay community. Down there in the village there is an AIDS clinic so you see all sorts of people with AIDS and HIV walking around. It's sad really and I would hope that at some point the gay community would stop infecting each other and be more responsible but who knows....it's sad.

I have known gay people yes, this is where I draw my conclusions from in addition to my ownresearch and observation of this behaviour in their natural environment. I don't know if it's still their but the Second Cup on Church was a great place to observe, I was constantly hit on but it was worth it in order to learn about these people and their habits. This was years ago as I used to be homeless as a youth and young adult and their was a youth shelter close by, it might be still there on Wellsley.

Anyone in my family gay? Not that I know of. If they were I would tryand presuade them not to make a lifestyle choice that would be harmful to them and to us as it is the rest of that homosexuals family that is left to pick up the pieces after they get sick.

I hope this answers your questions. I am answered it as honestly as possible and I am trying to be a non argumentative as possible. This is based on my own experiences, observations, conversations I've had with gay people and research.

You have upgraded from a shovel to a trackhoe.

I wish our side could cut some players...

[DrGreenthumb]

labelling conservative with authoritarian is flat out ignorant and using scare tactics.

No, its actually pretty damn accurate. Anyone who seriously tries to put forth that these Harper Conservatives aren't authoritarian is either dishonest or incredibly stupid.

Edited March 5, 2010 by DrGreenthumb

[DrGreenthumb]

Yes, many gay people choose to live a life of promiscuity. Gay people for the most part aren't monogamous very often and often have multiple sexual partners. This is what facilitated the spread of HIV in the early 80's. It is believed that HIV patient ZERO was a gay man from Montreal who was a flight attendant.

They could alternatively choose to not live this way but many do not. Now, I'm not saying all but many. Perhaps you're the sort of homosexual who enjoys a monogamous homosexual relationship but many of your people do not. I'm sure you know this already, I'd even say the majority do not. The village in Toronto is a prime example of this. Often time resulting in unprotected anal cavity sex. When people are thrusting their penises into another persons anus, the place where they bm from I don't understand how they could want to do that with several people not knowing if they're clean or what not. I don't understand it but w/e. Maybe when they cheat it's only oral sex, I have no idea just speculation.

You are such a tool man. So anal thrusting with your penis is ok so long as it is only with one partner? You do know that lots of hetero's enjoy anal sex too right? I actually think its kind of disgusting no matter if its a female or male anus being "thrusted", lol. I wouldn't put mine anywhere that feces came out of, I can hardly use a public toilet. I don't really care what other people do, as long as I'm not expected to take part. As far as I'm concerned, what people put in their bums is no more of the government's business than what we put in our lungs.

[blueblood]

No, its actually pretty damn accurate. Anyone who seriously tries to put forth that these Harper Conservatives aren't authoritarian is either dishonest or incredibly stupid.

And if they were authoritarian as you say, what do you think would happen the next election if they implemented their "authoritarianism"?

[myata]

Sounds just like any other of Harper's policy gymmics that are becoming a hallmark of this government.

Kyoto

death penalty for Canadians abroad

gun registry

fixed election dates

now gay rights

What happens to laws, policies, even human rights this government doesn't happen to appreciate? And yes they can do that even while sending off whatever of pathetic "official opposition" we may have to a prolonged unwanted break.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Yes, many gay people choose to live a life of promiscuity. Gay people for the most part aren't monogamous very often and often have multiple sexual partners. This is what facilitated the spread of HIV in the early 80's. It is believed that HIV patient ZERO was a gay man from Montreal who was a flight attendant.

This same B#llsh!t again? Seriously?

[MontyBurns]

Guys like Kenney will be dinosaurs, and their intellectual children will have found some other group deserving of their hatred.

You mean like the leftist Soviets are now dinosaurs.

If conservatism is a dinosaur philosophy then why does most of the world past and present subscibe to it? One of these days you will be able to tell your Muslim masters that they are dinosaurs. Femisnism, the left, gays, etc. are bringing on this as fast as time.

Edited March 6, 2010 by MontyBurns

[MontyBurns]

I made the observation that those who rant against civil liberties inevitably bring up the "pinko" card, and lo and behold, within a few posts of that, some guy brings up the Soviets. At this point it's irrelevant, gays can marry in Canada, but still, I don't often have a point proved this quickly.

The left completely collapsed in the USSR which proves that you were right all along as a leftist.

[nicky10013]

There you go again confusing the word conservative with authoritarian again.

Socially Conservative. In no way does that make all Conservatives authoritarian. There are plenty of social conservatives today are democratic. Some aren't. See Stephen Harper.

I wouldn't call CEO's of multinational corps idiot teabaggers. They know how to make money and improve the standard of living far better than the failure that is the USSR and any other socialist out there. Governments waste, the less government in the economy the better. Who am I going to listen to when it concerns economic matters, a multimillionaire CEO or some poli sci prof who can barely afford mortgage payments? Alberta vs. Quebec is a prime example of why gov't intervention causes problems.

No, I didn't call the head of multinational corporations idiot teabaggers. I called you an idiot teabagger because you imply that government intervention in some markets implies Stalinism which is ludicrously stupid. Alberta v Quebec doesn't matter anyways. Quebec is where it is and that I can't deny, but the only reason why Alberta is where it is, is due to the oil boom. You'll also notice that when the boom is truly over how stupidly the government acted by not intervening at all. The Alberta provincial government has been too busy signing royalty cheques to buy votes than actually investing in new infrastructure to help diversify it's economy. The overall bubble in Alberta is the mother of all bubbles. Housing is over valued by as much as 50%. My friend was offered a drive through timmies part time job at 20 bucks an hour. It can't last forever and it's all because the Alberta provincial economy refused to slow down a dangerously overheated market.

Considering that Tsarist Russia was the gong show it was, he fits the bill as a progressive for that time. As for liberalizing economics, anyone who calls BS on Adam Smith is the polar opposite of a liberalizing force in economics.

During the civil war they implemented a rigidly socialist economy. The new Soviet State came out completely broken and unable to do anything. Lenin and Bukharin implemented the New Economic Policy which allowed for privitization of grain farming and modest moves towards open markets to foster development. Stalin destroyed the NEP after he finally rid Russia of all of Stalin's enemies such as Zinoviev, Kamenev and Bukharin. But then again, you knew that and made such stupid comments because clearly you were joking.

Reagan and Pope John Paul II had a bigger hand in that, Gorby was playing catch up.

The only legacy Russia has is that it showed the world what a failure communism was. Doesn't matter who was in charge.

Russia was broke, they had no choice but to sell off the assets. Reagan put the screws to the USSR, and the world is a far better place because of it.

Spoken like a person who doesn't have a damned clue what he's talking about. Keep it up!

You can praise Reagan all you want but true historical records show he's nothing but a failure. First of all he was barely there and didn't even really run the White House. Trudeau once got so angry because he couldn't keep up with the talks that Trudeau stormed out of the meeting room. I attended a lecture by Colin Powell where he gave an anecdote that during a military briefing in the oval office, Reagan just kept staring out the window at squirrels. By the end of it when Powell asked if he had any questions, Reagan said "Colin, do you see that squirrel out there?"

Lets not forget that this man of small government and taxes implemented the largest tax hike in American history. Despite the fact that you think he "spent the Russians broke." The Russian economy was dead in the 60s. It was going to break down either way. Reagan's increased defence spending only led to the horrible economic conditions of the late 80s early 90s in the west, not to any breakup of the USSR. Reagan is nothing more than a legend, and a dangerous one at that. Conservatives everyhwere have created this narrative of what happened during his term, but most of it never did. At least not the way Conservatives remember it. Reagan was one of the first leaders of the new conservative movement that defines what it is today. Too bad he never did anything about it. The difference between modern conservatives and liberals is that conservatives tax and spend and lie about being tax cutters and small government. Liberals don't. Reagan, Thatcher, Mulroney, Bush 2 and now Harper, in each of their countries histories have pushed spending and government to levels never seen before. Ironically, who had to reign in what these so called small government conservatives? Bill Clinton, Tony Blair, Jean Chretien.

Small c conservatism only lives in the minds of the most uneducated blowhards. Or the richest guys who simply don't want to pay taxes. At least I understand the rich guys reasoning. If you want small government, low taxes which is conservatives definition of freedom, try Somalia. I hear it's beautiful this time of year. New conservatism is just as much a dead ideology as communism.

Edited March 7, 2010 by nicky10013

[bloodyminded]

The village in Toronto is a prime example of this. Often time resulting in unprotected anal cavity sex. When people are thrusting their penises into another persons anus, the place where they bm from I don't understand how they could want to do that with several people not knowing if they're clean or what not. I don't understand it but w/e. Maybe when they cheat it's only oral sex, I have no idea just speculation.

But a pretty obvious truism has not occurred to you on the matter of anal sex:

The majority of people engaging in anal sex are heterosexual.

[Dave_ON]

You could well have; people who are devoutly heterosexual are such by choice; they choose never to cross the sexual bounds they've set for themselves, and you could've choosen to reign yourself in by the same.

Who knows why you would, though. "Straight" is just as constricting a label as "gay".

You're evading the question as is Mr. C. While you're technically right one chooses who they have sexual relations with one does not choose who they are sexually attracted to. Sexual attraction is not a choice it's a biological impulse. Often times people such as Mr. C and apparently you mistake sexuality for the sexual act. One can be sexually attracted to men and never act on it but the fact remains the attraction is there regardless of whether it is acted upon.

When did you or Mr. C. for that matter "choose" to be sexually attracted to the opposite sex? When was this conscious choice made?

One can choose not to eat but that doesn't change the fact that there body wants to eat and uses various physical means to compel this. One can choose not to blink but the fact remains you still need/want to blink on a biological level.; same for breathing. We are subject to any number of biological impulses and sexual impulses is one of them; obviously not necessary to live as is breathing and eating but fundamentally the same.

[Dave_ON]

Yes, many gay people choose to live a life of promiscuity. Gay people for the most part aren't monogamous very often and often have multiple sexual partners...

Umm ok rubbish aside the same can be said about straight men, come now there are just as many promiscuous straight men out there as there are gay men. Promiscuity is a biological impulse native to males in most species not just the gay humans. Spread your seed as broad as you can etc. You should also be aware that women tend to be biologically prone to monogamy, part of the need of a stable environment to raise offspring I suppose; promiscuity among lesbians is actually quite rare.

They could alternatively choose to not live this way but many do not. Now, I'm not saying all but many. Perhaps you're the sort of homosexual who enjoys a monogamous homosexual relationship but many of your people do not. I'm sure you know this already, I'd even say the majority do not. The village in Toronto is a prime example of this. Often time resulting in unprotected anal cavity sex. When people are thrusting their penises into another person’s anus, the place where they bm from I don't understand how they could want to do that with several people not knowing if they're clean or what not. I don't understand it but w/e. Maybe when they cheat it's only oral sex, I have no idea just speculation.

Since you're the expert on unprotected sex you should be aware that Gay men are the most aware of the need for "safe sex", I hate that term, and that STD's are on the rise in Hetero's more than Gays. Actually surprisingly enough it's on the rise the most in the 50+ hetero crowd. They clearly didn't have the benefit of education on the matter the younger crowd did. Anyway I digress. Ever heard of the 60's or 70's? Free love? All ear marks of the Hetero community, in those days the gay community was still quite underground.

That aside you're evading the question of choice; I asked you directly when you "chose" to be sexually attracted to women. Not when you chose to have sex with women but when you consciously choose to "want" to have sex with women. When was this decision made?

Anyone in my family gay? Not that I know of. If they were I would tryand presuade them not to make a lifestyle choice that would be harmful to them and to us as it is the rest of that homosexuals family that is left to pick up the pieces after they get sick.

I hope this answers your questions. I am answered it as honestly as possible and I am trying to be a non argumentative as possible. This is based on my own experiences, observations, conversations I've had with gay people and research.

It doesn't really answer my fundamental question, when did you choose to be attracted to the opposite sex? When was that choice made? Please don't confuse the sexual act with sexual attraction the two are completely different. Any man is physically capable of having sex with a woman but that doesn't make them straight. God knows I know many gay men; myself included who tried to be straight for our own reasons. For the record my partner and I have been together for 8 years now, and monogamy isn't as rare in the gay community as you believe it to be. Eventually, gay men, like straight men realize how empty it is and settle down. But regardless I don't judge anyone for the choices they make, even if I don't agree with them, who am I to tell anyone else how they should live their life? Who's to say I have all the answers? Perhaps others know a truth I've yet to discover.

[nicky10013]

But regardless I don't judge anyone for the choices they make, even if I don't agree with them, who am I to tell anyone else how they should live their life? Who's to say I have all the answers? Perhaps others know a truth I've yet to discover.

Amen. But then again that's the problem right there. Their truth comes from a fictional, incomplete book that's 2000 years old. Social Conservatives claim to love freedom and most importantly individual freedom. That holds true just so long as you're a white, straight, anglo-saxon man.

Edited March 7, 2010 by nicky10013

[g_bambino]

You're evading the question as is Mr. C. While you're technically right one chooses who they have sexual relations with one does not choose who they are sexually attracted to. One can be sexually attracted to men and never act on it but the fact remains the attraction is there regardless of whether it is acted upon.

And a man who identifies himself as gay can be sexually attracted to women and never act on it, but the fact remains the attraction is there, regardless of whether it is acted upon. You see, I think all people can be attracted to others of either gender, to varying degrees at different points in their lives. The question is: do they act on it, or restrict themselves to the confines of what their chosen sexual label allows?

I've made a conscious choice to eschew stupid sexual designations. I made this choice when I realised how futile, and fake, those labels are.

Hence, I've no real compassion for those who whine that the citizenship guide didn't give attention to their particular coveted cause. The liberalisation of our societal attitudes towards sex is far broader than just the narrow scope of gay rights.

[c/e]

Edited March 7, 2010 by g_bambino

[nicky10013]

And a man who identifies himself as gay can be sexually attracted to women and never act on it, but the fact remains the attraction is there, regardless of whether it is acted upon.

[c/e]

You're argument dies in the first sentence. If you're straight why would you identify yourself as gay? Most parts of the world aren't too friendly to homosexuality. I don't think you realize what it means to be identified as gay. Even in Toronto, I have friends who simply don't want to come out due to fear of their family disowning them or what we may think or religious pressures. Why would someone pretend to be gay when they're straight and choose to go through that kind of persecution? Could it happen? I suppose but I can guarantee the fraction of people that do is infintecimal compared to the gay people who feel that they HAVE to live a straight life.

[Mr.Canada]

Homosexuals choose to live the way they do. It's a choice they consciously make. They could choose otherwise but they don't, they choose a life of immorality and non etical behaviour. I suspect many people who choose to lvie this way are from homes where they have an overbearing mother figure. These are said to promote it.

Edited March 7, 2010 by Mr.Canada

[Smallc]

You're argument dies in the first sentence. If you're straight why would you identify yourself as gay? Most parts of the world aren't too friendly to homosexuality. I don't think you realize what it means to be identified as gay. Even in Toronto, I have friends who simply don't want to come out due to fear of their family disowning them or what we may think or religious pressures. Why would someone pretend to be gay when they're straight and choose to go through that kind of persecution? Could it happen? I suppose but I can guarantee the fraction of people that do is infintecimal compared to the gay people who feel that they HAVE to live a straight life.

I think his point is being missed. No one is completely gay or straight. Where we are on the spectrum is determined by a number of factors. Gay and straight are simply labels that people choose to affix to themselves.

Edited March 7, 2010 by Smallc

[g_bambino]

You're argument dies in the first sentence. If you're straight why would you identify yourself as gay?

Funnily, your argument dies right at the question you launch it with. A narrow minded concept of sexuality limits you to believing only that once a sexual label is settled on, all capability to ever feel anything opposed to what that label requires for application ceases. A question for you would be: why after you've decided you're gay can you never, ever, ever have a reflexive sexual urge for a woman; or vice versa? Is the world really so black and white for you?

[g_bambino]

Homosexuals choose to live the way they do. It's a choice they consciously make. They could choose otherwise but they don't, they choose a life of immorality and non etical behaviour. I suspect many people who choose to lvie this way are from homes where they have an overbearing mother figure. These are said to promote it.

Heterosexuals choose to live the way they do. It's a choice they consciously make. They could choose otherwise but they don't; they choose a life of slightly more acceptable immorality and non ethical behaviour (strap-ons, anal sex, bondage, prostitution, swinging, hypocritically accepted lesbianism, etc.). I suspect many people who choose to live this way are from homes with a mother and father, just a mother, just a father, grandparents, orphanages, etc. These are said to promote it.

[Dave_ON]

Homosexuals choose to live the way they do. It's a choice they consciously make. They could choose otherwise but they don't, they choose a life of immorality and non etical behaviour. I suspect many people who choose to lvie this way are from homes where they have an overbearing mother figure. These are said to promote it.

Still waiting for an answer. When did you conciously choose to be attracted to the opposite sex. It's a simple question and a simple answer will do.

My thoughts? You know the answer is you never conciously chose to be attracted to opposite sex, it came unbidden and naturally to you. You, and others like you, refuse to admit this truth as it would lend validity to the notion that one is born gay not made so by their "over bearing mother" or by choosing to be attracted to the same sex.

[Keepitsimple]

Still waiting for an answer. When did you conciously choose to be attracted to the opposite sex. It's a simple question and a simple answer will do.

My thoughts? You know the answer is you never conciously chose to be attracted to opposite sex, it came unbidden and naturally to you. You, and others like you, refuse to admit this truth as it would lend validity to the notion that one is born gay not made so by their "over bearing mother" or by choosing to be attracted to the same sex.

I agree Dave. Some people are born gay. It's just the way they are wired. I know that this will cause some controversy but best estimates are that 2-3% of the population is gay. Seems pretty high to me but those are the best estimates. Activists want us to believe that it's 10-15% but any notion that it's higher than 2-3% is strictly because of the concentrations in the small gay enclaves in Toronto, San Francisco, etc......and the Liberalized attention activists receive in Hollywood. But back on point.....many/most gays are born that way. Bi-sexuals? Don't get me started.

Edited March 8, 2010 by Keepitsimple