Olympic ceremonies lack French

[CANADIEN]

IMV, there should have been more French for the simple reason that Radio-Canada has better production values than the CBC. And the opening ceremony reminded me of bad CBC.

The French-speaking coverage of the opening ceremony on TV was better than anything Radio-Canada has done at past Olympics. Half the irrelevant and innacurate comments.

[CANADIEN]

Sorry Macho, it has a lot to do with Canada, especially with Graham encouraging 20 federal departments and agencies to put linguistic pressure on VANOC relating to the use of the French language.

This started back in Dec. 2008.

And he was right to do so.

Fraser should get more acquainted with Quebec and go and practice his vocation over there.

No surprise... You are clueless to the fact that the function of the Commissioner is to monitor how FEDERAL language legislation is implemented. Which Fraser and all past Commissioners have done in ALL the country.

BTW, nice contradiction from you... The federal government has nothing to say about what happens as at an international event taking place in Canada (remember, you said that the Feds should respect BC policies), but he should investigate strickly provincial policies when they are in Quebec.

[CANADIEN]

Is there anything the french won't cry about?

Those who complain are Canadians, not French. And they are right to do so if they believe that the organizers of the opening ceremony did not include enough French (I dsiagree with them, BTW, but it's another story).

This is BC more people speak native german than french.

This is canada, with Canada welcoming the world, and French is a Canadian language, the same as English and First Nations languages. German, with all due respect due to it, is not.

[Oleg Bach]

Watching five minutes or less of the ceremony was more than enough for me- who are they trying to impress? Certainly not me.

[cybercoma]

The IOC is based in Lausanne, Switzerland. What the hell does that have to do with French Voyageurs?

Clearly, I was discussing the cultural component of the show. Your flippancy aside, it was a salient point because that part of our history was almost entirely overlooked in Opening Ceremony's artistic representation of Canadian culture and history. They spent a considerable time elevating the First Nations to mythical status, while nearly ignoring the French, who fostered ties with the Natives in order to cover a much larger area of North America than they would otherwise be able. That's not to say they weren't instrumental in displacing the Natives and, to be sure, the Jesuits did their part in destroying their culture, but that's beside the point. The French founded this country; the English took it over. This oversight--that the organizers left the French element out of the program--ought to be an affront to anyone with even a modicum of historical knowledge. Edited February 17, 2010 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

{James Moore, and any other politicians wishing to discuss "Canadian biculturualism" or "les deux solitudes" or similar can feel free to go do a backflip into an empty pool as far as I'm concerned.}

kimmy, I typically love your posts, but you come off as a stereotypical Western Canadian here. I'm not necessarily saying that's a bad thing. Perhaps Canada really is too large and this ocean to ocean project will end up as a massive failure. Regional politics may kill this country, but perhaps its for the best. Maybe each region needs to have its own autonomy. Maybe the sheer size of Canada is an anachronism to the imperial era and needs to be re-arranged. Nevertheless, we're a single "nation" and to deny the notions of les deux solitudes is to intentionally ignore how this country came to be. Edited February 17, 2010 by cybercoma

[CANADIEN]

Clearly, I was discussing the cultural component of the show. Your flippancy aside, it was a salient point because that part of our history was almost entirely overlooked in Opening Ceremony's artistic representation of Canadian culture and history. They spent a considerable time elevating the First Nations to mythical status, while nearly ignoring the French, who fostered ties with the Natives in order to cover a much larger area of North America than they would otherwise be able. That's not to say they weren't instrumental in displacing the Natives and, to be sure, the Jesuits did their part in destroying their culture, but that's beside the point. The French founded this country; the English took it over. This oversight--that the organizers left the French element out of the program--ought to be an affront to anyone with even a modicum of historical knowledge.

Looks like we didn't see the show in the same manner. The violin-dance part of the show was opened with a reference to one of French-Canadian most famous legend, "La Chasse-Galerie", a story about lumberjacks who make a deal with Satan o that he will bring them in a flying canoe to their loved ones during the Holidays. There were no Voyageurs? Their were no Loyalists, no Chinese railworkers.

[Leafless]

No surprise... You are clueless to the fact that the function of the Commissioner is to monitor how FEDERAL language legislation is implemented.

And you are clueless to the fact that Fraser and his gang of 20 federal departments and agencies were badgering VANOC and NOT monitoring.

BTW, nice contradiction from you... The federal government has nothing to say about what happens as at an international event taking place in Canada (remember, you said that the Feds should respect BC policies), but he should investigate strickly provincial policies when they are in Quebec.

Again you are clueless to the fact that the federal government does NOT even recognize French as being the official language in Quebec or the federal government would NOT be there offering federal services in ENGLISH and FRENCH.

Edited February 17, 2010 by Leafless

[fellowtraveller]

Yet, there is no doubt that it is Canada, not jsut Vancouver or BC, that is welcoming the world.

The Quebec and federal politicians that are continually yapping about the horrors of insufficent French would disagree.

[CANADIEN]

And you are clueless (...)

And here's the pot (you) calling the kettle black

(...)to the fact that Fraser and his gang of 20 federal departments and agencies were badgering VANOC and NOT monitoring.

Monitoring includes making sure things are done.

Again you are clueless to the fact that the federal government does NOT even recognize French as being the official language in Quebec or the federal government would NOT be there offering federal services in ENGLISH and FRENCH.

Now that I stopped laughing. Reminder... I have been saying all along that English and French were equal in status at the federal level in ALL the country (including Quebec). That the Feds choose (and rightly so) to ignore Quebec language legislation is proof of that.

Edited February 17, 2010 by CANADIEN

[William Ashley]

The Quebec and federal politicians that are continually yapping about the horrors of insufficent French would disagree.

I understand why people are upset that people want more french. It is because those anglophones are too stupid to learn french, and it reminds them of their stupidity when they hear it.

English is a type of french that came about when the French Normans conquerred England - and removed the teuton threads of anglosaxon, and instead engrained the french language into the former native language of the isles which was largely eradicated and modified by the latin french.

Little do you stupid anglos realize but you are speaking the language your french masters imposed on you over a millennium ago.

If you didn't realize there is a reason that French was the state language of England until 1362.

Edited February 17, 2010 by William Ashley

[CANADIEN]

The Quebec and federal politicians that are continually yapping about the horrors of insufficent French would disagree.

It is exactly BECAUSE it is Canada welcoming the world that people are claiming that it should do so in out two official languages.

As for the yapping, a lot is coming from the type of people who are saying "it's BC's and Vancouver Games" while constantly whining about French on cereal boxes.

[CANADIEN]

I understand why people are upset that people want more french. It is because those anglophones are too stupid to learn french, and it reminds them of their stupidity when they hear it.

The stupidity, to choose your own term, is not in not learning a lnaguage. It is in screaming bloody murder because another language has equal status... Or in linking learning of another language with intelligence.

[Machjo]

Clearly, I was discussing the cultural component of the show. Your flippancy aside, it was a salient point because that part of our history was almost entirely overlooked in Opening Ceremony's artistic representation of Canadian culture and history. They spent a considerable time elevating the First Nations to mythical status, while nearly ignoring the French, who fostered ties with the Natives in order to cover a much larger area of North America than they would otherwise be able. That's not to say they weren't instrumental in displacing the Natives and, to be sure, the Jesuits did their part in destroying their culture, but that's beside the point. The French founded this country; the English took it over. This oversight--that the organizers left the French element out of the program--ought to be an affront to anyone with even a modicum of historical knowledge.

If that was the OP's intent, then that wasn't clear. The OP itself was addressing language specifically. And on that front, there were't too many problems. Almost everything was started in French. Apperently, one speech wasn't totally interpreted into French, and that's an unfortunate oversight, but certainly not the end of the world.

As for the presentation of French culture, yes I agree it could have received more coverage, considering that Federal funding went into the Olympics.

[William Ashley]

If that was the OP's intent, then that wasn't clear. The OP itself was addressing language specifically. And on that front, there were't too many problems. Almost everything was started in French. Apperently, one speech wasn't totally interpreted into French, and that's an unfortunate oversight, but certainly not the end of the world.

As for the presentation of French culture, yes I agree it could have received more coverage, considering that Federal funding went into the Olympics.

I just saw a RONA truck (Another sponser of the olympics and was reminded that their company colours are the same of the Bay -- red and blue... same as the CPC colours coincidence? both the Bay and Rona seem to be screaming english companies, another was blue bell, and finally thje other was CTV which is red blue (And green) ... hmm coincidence that the colours of sponsers are all CPC colours? (and english..)

Edited February 17, 2010 by William Ashley

[Machjo]

I understand why people are upset that people want more french. It is because those anglophones are too stupid to learn french, and it reminds them of their stupidity when they hear it.

Check Stats Can. Only about 43% of Quebecers know English. And if we consider that StatsCan is based on self assessment, the real figure is probably even lower. So are most Quebecers stupid because they don't know English?

I'd disagree. Quite simply, both English and French are difficult languages to learn. Even in Germany where they speak a Germanic langauge as a mother tongue, only an estimate 6% of Germans really know English well.

The bottom line is, English and French are difficult languages to learn. I count myself lucky to know both languages fluently, but would not consider those who don't know both languages to be stupid, but rather less lucky.

[M.Dancer]

both the Bay and Rona seem to be screaming english companies,

Rona is a Quebec based operation that trades on the TSX and employs 21,000 people across canada.

[Oleg Bach]

Internationally Canada is viewed is an English nation. No one out there views it as a partial French nation. They view France as a french nation...only we are caught up in the pandering and appeasement of our French irritants and noble prisoners of a long forgotten war. I guarantee that not one other citizen of the planet earth noticed that we did not pay proper tribute to the French- other than radical Quebecists.

[Machjo]

Internationally Canada is viewed is an English nation. No one out there views it as a partial French nation. They view France as a french nation...only we are caught up in the pandering and appeasement of our French irritants and noble prisoners of a long forgotten war. I guarantee that not one other citizen of the planet earth noticed that we did not pay proper tribute to the French- other than radical Quebecists.

Have you ever been abroad. When I was in Asia, I'd met people who asked me about Canada's different cultural groups, including First Nations, Quebecers, and even Franco-Ontarians. So if people on the other side of the world know of Franco-Ontarians, then I can assure you they're aware of Quebec. It's the same as us being aware of Japan's minotiry ethnic groups like the Korean Japanese and the Ainu for example.

[William Ashley]

Check Stats Can. Only about 43% of Quebecers know English.

Who cares what does french have to do with Quebec.. there are french speaking Canadians who live outside of Quebec.

And if we consider that StatsCan is based on self assessment, the real figure is probably even lower. So are most Quebecers stupid because they don't know English?

The premise of both sole anglos and francos does apply - it isn't hard to learn the basics of another language.

I'd disagree. Quite simply, both English and French are difficult languages to learn.

They aren't. People would rather sit infront of a tv watching people going around in circles or watching totally baseless fantasy rubish about police chasing down criminals than trying to learn more about the country they live in. It is a population who bases itself in a fantasy reality rather than grounded in real applicable skills.

Even in Germany where they speak a Germanic langauge as a mother tongue, only an estimate 6% of Germans really know English well.

Who cares.

The bottom line is, English and French are difficult languages to learn.

They aren't.

I count myself lucky to know both languages fluently, but would not consider those who don't know both languages to be stupid, but rather less lucky.

I disagree.

Edited February 17, 2010 by William Ashley

[Oleg Bach]

Have you ever been abroad. When I was in Asia, I'd met people who asked me about Canada's different cultural groups, including First Nations, Quebecers, and even Franco-Ontarians. So if people on the other side of the world know of Franco-Ontarians, then I can assure you they're aware of Quebec. It's the same as us being aware of Japan's minotiry ethnic groups like the Korean Japanese and the Ainu for example.

YOU must have been mixing with other privledged people who could afford to fly around the planet for fun...most like myself are earth bound.

[Oleg Bach]

I retract that to a degree. Yes there are bright and aware people all over the world- there is even a cult of Jews in China ....existence of Mongolian Koreans-- Black Etheopians who are Christian Jews...and lets not forget....well you- who are probably French and are still wanting not to be part of multi-culturalism.

[fellowtraveller]

Have you ever been abroad. When I was in Asia, I'd met people who asked me about Canada's different cultural groups, including First Nations, Quebecers, and even Franco-Ontarians. So if people on the other side of the world know of Franco-Ontarians, then I can assure you they're aware of Quebec. It's the same as us being aware of Japan's minotiry ethnic groups like the Korean Japanese and the Ainu for example.

You're both wrong, 99.99% of the worlds popualtion know nothing of Canada and have no desire to know more.

Our little disagreements about language and culture have lost resonance here and never had any anywhere else.

[fellowtraveller]

They spent a considerable time elevating the First Nations to mythical status, while nearly ignoring the French,

If you want comprehensive coverage of Canadian history, take a few classes. There just isn't time in an Olympic pageant to cover it all.

But from the perspective of the host city and province, the cultural aspects they did try to cover- First Nations influence- was far, far more important than French influence.

It still is to this day.

[fellowtraveller]

I understand why people are upset that people want more french. It is because those anglophones are too stupid to learn french, and it reminds them of their stupidity when they hear it.

English is a type of french that came about when the French Normans conquerred England - and removed the teuton threads of anglosaxon, and instead engrained the french language into the former native language of the isles which was largely eradicated and modified by the latin french.

Little do you stupid anglos realize but you are speaking the language your french masters imposed on you over a millennium ago.

If you didn't realize there is a reason that French was the state language of England until 1362.

What people 'want more French'?

If they actually exist anymore, they have virtually no impact on my life.

The etymology of either language is of no interest except to pedants and separatists, what is of interest is the future. Trade in Canada, the money that greases all wheels, is mainly and increasingly North-South, not East -West. If you live in English Canada, you're wasting your time learning French instead of Mandarin, Japanese, Hindi or Spanish because those are where the future lies, not in fighting old battles with Central Canada. If you are from French Canada, learn Englisg because your financial future is with the United States and they are not learning your language.