Global Warming backdown

[Alta4ever]

good on ya... don't fret... earth hour is closing in - that will certainly offset your redneck hillbilly ways.

Half way done, and I think I have used 4x as much power as normal. You hour has been nullified!

[jbg]

good on ya... don't fret... earth hour is closing in - that will certainly offset your redneck hillbilly ways.

Is the best that you can do to mock the non-panickers?

[waldo]

Waldo and Wyly I will be thinking of you tonight and dedicating all the power consumption to you, as I turn on everything in the house and the holiday trailer, and run all three vehicles. Cheers

good on ya... don't fret... earth hour is closing in - that will certainly offset your redneck hillbilly ways.

Half way done, and I think I have used 4x as much power as normal. You hour has been nullified!

Is the best that you can do to mock the non-panickers?

jbg, is it your position that Altaboy's targeted, out-of-the-blue commentary, one that offers a conveyance of wanton, wasteful, excessive power consumption... is your so-called "non-panickers" thoughtful, non-mocking expression, one unintended to spark meaningful dialogue?

but, yes... I can do better - Altaboy's lights were all on... but nobody was home!

[Moonlight Graham]

Aahhhhh...what a refreshing observation. Bravo!

Right back at ya

[wyly]

Ocean currents won't stop, not unless all the oceans in the world freeze completely. Big difference in the ocean conveyor and in ocean currents in general.

it's the same thing...

99% of all life species that have existed throughout the history of the earth have gone extinct. That's nature. For sure that rapid climate change is not friendly to the survival of many species.

species do not go extinct voluntarily they do so because of external forces and the prime external force is climate change...

Humans are a very adaptable species, and i think if the average global temp rapidly rose to 25C that our species would survive, though or course i'm sure many would also die as a result. I could move to the Yukon and likely do ok.

you haven't thought this out, when there is a mass extinction it's the mega fauna that die off, the little critters with short lifspans high reproduction rates and low food requirements that survive...I've lived in the Yukon, how are your living of the land nature skills? good luck surving month....

[Bonam]

you haven't thought this out, when there is a mass extinction it's the mega fauna that die off, the little critters with short lifspans high reproduction rates and low food requirements that survive...I've lived in the Yukon, how are your living of the land nature skills? good luck surving month....

Humans have this thing called technology, which allows us to survive where otherwise we could not. Through the use of technology we are the most adaptable species on the planet. Human settlements exist and can survive in any climate on Earth, in the high heat of over 50 C in equatorial regions and deserts as well as in extreme cold such as settlements in Siberia, or outposts in Antarctica where the temperature can go below -80 C.

[wyly]

Humans have this thing called technology, which allows us to survive where otherwise we could not. Through the use of technology we are the most adaptable species on the planet. Human settlements exist and can survive in any climate on Earth, in the high heat of over 50 C in equatorial regions and deserts as well as in extreme cold such as settlements in Siberia, or outposts in Antarctica where the temperature can go below -80 C.

any farms in the Atacama desert? how about Antarctica? what sort of indigenous population figures do you have for those regions? how many people live in the Sahara? passing through a region or flying in supplies to sustain remote outposts is not surviving...how is your grain farm going to do in the Yukon? ever been there?

[Bonam]

any farms in the Atacama desert? how about Antarctica? what sort of indigenous population figures do you have for those regions? how many people live in the Sahara? passing through a region or flying in supplies to sustain remote outposts is not surviving...how is your grain farm going to do in the Yukon? ever been there?

My underground hydroponic farming facility powered by a nuclear reactor will do just fine whether it is in Antarctica, in the Yukon, or anywhere else.

[bloodyminded]

Waldo and Wyly I will be thinking of you tonight and dedicating all the power consumption to you, as I turn on everything in the house and the holiday trailer, and run all three vehicles. Cheers

Sure...and meanwhile, you can race your fat SUV at a hundred and twenty clicks through the school zone, blasting Nugent and screaming insults at queers, on your way to the Seven-Eleven to buy scat-porn.

"Yeaaahhhhhh, Cheney!"

[wyly]

My underground hydroponic farming facility powered by a nuclear reactor will do just fine whether it is in Antarctica, in the Yukon, or anywhere else.

oh sure and you can get Scotty to beam you up and you go on warp 9 vacations to the Delta quadrant too....

[Guest TrueMetis]

oh sure and you can get Scotty to beam you up and you go on warp 9 vacations to the Delta quadrant too....

Your comparing Hydroponics and Nuclear reactors to startrek? You do realize that neither of those are new technology right?

[wyly]

Your comparing Hydroponics and Nuclear reactors to startrek? You do realize that neither of those are new technology right?

are you suggesting 9 billion people (projected by 2050) are going to survive off of underground nuclear hydroponics in the Antarctic and Yukon?...that's science fiction not reality...

a 10c increase and the discussion will be...will man or any vestige of civilization survive...you can forget about underground nuclear hydroponics in the Antarctic...

[Guest TrueMetis]

are you suggesting 9 billion people (projected by 2050) are going to survive off of underground nuclear hydroponics in the Antarctic and Yukon?...that's science fiction not reality...

a 10c increase and the discussion will be...will man or any vestige of civilization survive...you can forget about underground nuclear hydroponics in the Antarctic...

Considering hydroponics produces much higher yields than when done in soil it is entirely possible. Depending on the crop anywere from half again as much to a tenfold increase.

As for will humans survive, we survied an Ice Age we can survive whatever way the climate goes.

Edited March 28, 2010 by TrueMetis

[Bonam]

are you suggesting 9 billion people (projected by 2050) are going to survive off of underground nuclear hydroponics in the Antarctic and Yukon?...that's science fiction not reality...

a 10c increase and the discussion will be...will man or any vestige of civilization survive...you can forget about underground nuclear hydroponics in the Antarctic...

You greatly underestimate human ingenuity and our will to survive. Additionally, I never said anything about 9 billion people.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Bonam

[Bonam]

double post

Edited March 28, 2010 by Bonam

[wyly]

Considering hydroponics produces much higher yields than when done in soil it is entirely possible. Depending on the crop anywere from half again as much to a tenfold increase.

the logistics are mind boggling, a destroyed civilization running underground nuclear hydroponics...optimitic to say the least..

As for will humans survive, we survied an Ice Age we can survive whatever way the climate goes.

the planet never had 9 billion during the ice age, it was a hunter gatherer population...and genetic evidence would suggest humanity was on a knife edge of survival 70,000 yrs ago...

[Guest TrueMetis]

the logistics are mind boggling, a destroyed civilization running underground nuclear hydroponics...optimitic to say the least..

And your mister glass half empty assuming civilization will be destoryed.

the planet never had 9 billion during the ice age, it was a hunter gatherer population...and genetic evidence would suggest humanity was on a knife edge of survival 70,000 yrs ago...

They also didn't have heaters or any of the other technological advantages we have.

[wyly]

You greatly underestimate human ingenuity and our will to survive. Additionally, I never said anything about 9 billion people.

you greatly overestimate human resiliance the greater the reliance on technology I responding to a post that would suggest we survive in the Yukon should there be a 10c increase, there won't be a civilization in place to construct a underground nuclear hydyroponic systems in the Arctic and Antarctic...

trying to cast a 10c increse in a optimistic light is is silly since it will be a disaster humanity has never had to cope with before, if the enviroment collapses billions will die...

[Bonam]

you greatly overestimate human resiliance the greater the reliance on technology I responding to a post that would suggest we survive in the Yukon should there be a 10c increase, there won't be a civilization in place to construct a underground nuclear hydyroponic systems in the Arctic and Antarctic...

A 10 C increase doesn't happen overnight. It happens over decades at the least. That is plenty of time for rich nations to prepare in various ways. Whether it means evacuating coastal areas as water levels rise, creating new farming facilities in more northern areas as southern ones become too hot, or whatever else, there will be plenty of time and opportunity to adapt our civilization to changing climates.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Bonam

[Alta4ever]

jbg, is it your position that Altaboy's targeted, out-of-the-blue commentary, one that offers a conveyance of wanton, wasteful, excessive power consumption... is your so-called "non-panickers" thoughtful, non-mocking expression, one unintended to spark meaningful dialogue?

but, yes... I can do better - Altaboy's lights were all on... but nobody was home!

I wasn't home for part of it. I decided I was hungry and went for a quick bite to eat.

[wyly]

A 10 C increase doesn't happen overnight. It happens over decades at the least. That is plenty of time for rich nations to prepare in various ways. Whether it means evacuating coastal areas as water levels rise, creating new farming facilities in more northern areas as southern ones become too hot, or whatever else, there will be plenty of time and opportunity to adapt our civilization to changing climates.

at present rate unchanged we may see 10c in two hundred years that isn't enough time...and then assume billions of people are going to move north as there is not much of a south to migrate to and Canada and Russia are going to be able to take in these feed these billions...problem is the land people move onto is prime agricultural land and then you wrongly assume canada has lots of it in the north, we don't unless you find away to farm bedrock...

10c and it's bye bye civilization... this is it, we have one planet and no where else to go if we don't take care of our home we're done...

Edited March 29, 2010 by wyly

[Guest TrueMetis]

at present rate unchanged we may see 10c in two hundred years that isn't enough time...and then assume billions of people are going to move north as there is not much of a south to migrate to and Canada and Russia are going to be able to take in these feed these billions...problem is the land people move onto is prime agricultural land and then you wrongly assume canada has lots of it in the north, we don't unless you find away to farm bedrock...

10c and it's bye bye civilization...

Look at the difference between now and 200 years ago. A lot can happen in 200 years.

[Michael Hardner]

at present rate unchanged we may see 10c in two hundred years that isn't enough time...and then assume billions of people are going to move north as there is not much of a south to migrate to and Canada and Russia are going to be able to take in these feed these billions...problem is the land people move onto is prime agricultural land and then you wrongly assume canada has lots of it in the north, we don't unless you find away to farm bedrock...

10c and it's bye bye civilization...

In two hundred years we will have global population decline, I believe, by current estimates. Also, you will likely see great improvements in agricultural technology. It`s better to say that the future is unknown, and we need to plan for it than to state specifics about how many people will be around, or how difficult it will be to feed people.

[Bonam]

In 200 years we'll be probably living on Mars, on the Moon, on the moons of Jupiter and on Titan, in orbital and in asteroid colonies, and may well be in the process of colonizing other star systems. Or we might not exist as physical beings at all and instead simply exist as patterns of information in the computer banks of our machine civilization. Or we might be extinct. Or we might be engaged in a desperate battle for survival with alien civilizations. Or almost an infinite number of other possibilities.

Trying to frame the issues we might face 200 years from now in terms of today's problems is almost unbelievably shortsighted. Who 200 years ago could have foreseen today's world?

Edited March 29, 2010 by Bonam

[wyly]

In two hundred years we will have global population decline, I believe, by current estimates. Also, you will likely see great improvements in agricultural technology. It`s better to say that the future is unknown, and we need to plan for it than to state specifics about how many people will be around, or how difficult it will be to feed people.

when I was a wee kid teachers were telling us we'd be driving nuclear powered cars...nuclear power would power the entire world, but reality set in...some science will always remain science fiction

in forty years population will climb from the 6.5 billion we have now to 9 billion if fertility rates drop the population will still be by UN estimates 11.5 billion by 2100, if it keeps climbing at todays rate 40 Billion...

we cannot assume there will improvements in agricultural technology and agricultural land is being overrun with urban development, planning must be done with what we know now not what we hope we'll have 100 or 200 years from now...a finite planet with finite resources cannot sustain the projected populations...add in climate change and the potential environmental damage that goes with it we have disaster looming...