Racism on the reserve

Mr.Canada · February 25, 2010

So are natives, indians, abbos or whatever you to call them today Canadian or no?

charter.rights · February 25, 2010

No, they are not a "US lacrosse team." You obviously missed the point of the articles.

He doesn't read the articles and links -that much is clear. He is only here for ad hominem attacks and advancing fallacy arguments.

Edited February 25, 2010 by charter.rights

charter.rights · February 25, 2010

So are natives, indians, abbos or whatever you to call them today Canadian or no?

Mohawks are not Canadian.

Mr.Canada · February 25, 2010

Mohawks are not Canadian.

Are they bound by Canadian Laws?

charter.rights · February 25, 2010

Are they bound by Canadian Laws?

No. But that does not stop Canadian Authorities from trying to impose our laws on them.

The Silver Covenant Chain - A Treaty of Goodwill, Friendship and Peace defines the relationship between the Haudenosaunee (Mohawk nation of the Confederation) and the Crown as independent sovereign allies and was reinforced in the Royal Proclamation 1763 (now entrenched in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms).

Mr.Canada · February 25, 2010

No. But that does not stop Canadian Authorities from trying to impose our laws on them.

The Silver Covenant Chain - A Treaty of Goodwill, Friendship and Peace defines the relationship between the Haudenosaunee (Mohawk nation of the Confederation) and the Crown as independent sovereign allies and was reinforced in the Royal Proclamation 1763 (now entrenched in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms).

I see. So which if any laws do they adhere to?

M.Dancer · February 25, 2010

No. But that does not stop Canadian Authorities from trying to impose our laws on them.

Funny...when there is a murder on a reservation....in what jail is the accused held and in whose pen is the convicted sent?

M.Dancer · February 25, 2010

No, they are not a "US lacrosse team." You obviously missed the point of the articles.

Of course they are a US team. They are from the US.

charter.rights · February 25, 2010

Funny...when there is a murder on a reservation....in what jail is the accused held and in whose pen is the convicted sent?

In the case of Six Nations or Akwesasne they are held in their own jails and tried by their own judges from the territory. Others are taken to local jails and tried according to Canadian law by agreement with those territories. In any case Ontario law is never applied on the territory and only laws of common application (such as murder etc) are applicable on reserve. Other crimes (such as theft, assault etc) are dealt with by local custom - Longhouse Councils, tribal circles, community justice forums etc. And finally, if a Mohawk from any of those territories does appear in a court outside of their territory (for crimes committed off territory etc) then the courts are required under our laws to take into consideration the fact that they are natives, and when determining bail or other fines consider what impact that will have on the native's community, family etc. As well, before any sentencing, Gladue reports are required to be submitted to the courts identifying alternative punishments that have to be considered.

So really while there may be some cross-over, the relationship between Mohawks and the courts is not the same as between us and our courts because Canadian laws - especially the Charter - protect the sovereign relationship.

Wild Bill · February 25, 2010

Are they bound by Canadian Laws?

Depends on who you ask, I guess. There's an argument that reserves are sovereign land and should not be subject to Canadian law. Of course, that doesn't stop the natives from demanding and taking federal and provincial money for policing, and manpower for anything that exceeds their own resources.

What seems iffier is the idea expoused by some native activists that natives should ALWAYS be under native law, even if they commit a crime off the reservation land. I've never understood this, as it would mean that any native anywhere has diplomatic immunity. I can think of no other country in the world where ALL its citizens can come to Canada and do whatever they want while enjoying diplomatic immunity. I always thought that such immunity was only given to diplomatic personnel.

Then again, as certain posters have explained to me many times, if I disagree with them on any native issue anywhere in any way then I must be simply a bigot, by definition. Meanwhile, I hope to remain anonymous, as I have a number of native friends and I wouldn't want to be forced to discriminate against them just to fit under some activist's label.

charter.rights · February 25, 2010

Of course they are a US team. They are from the US.

Nope! Try again. They are Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) Nationals.

Have another drink and toke. It might begin to make more sense.

Mr.Canada · February 25, 2010

Nope! Try again. They are Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) Nationals.

Have another drink and toke. It might begin to make more sense.

So that's what you do before you post.

Why do you, as a white person, care so much about natives?

I'm really curious why you're like this.

This isn't a troll post or anything like that.

charter.rights · February 25, 2010

What seems iffier is the idea expoused by some native activists that natives should ALWAYS be under native law, even if they commit a crime off the reservation land. I've never understood this, as it would mean that any native anywhere has diplomatic immunity. I can think of no other country in the world where ALL its citizens can come to Canada and do whatever they want while enjoying diplomatic immunity. I always thought that such immunity was only given to diplomatic personnel.

The Campbell Treaty provided that every native caught off their territory, and every British citizen caught on territory committing a crime will be returned to their respective nations for trial and sentencing under their own respective laws.

This was one initiated by the British because they were so afraid of the Iroquois punishments that they wanted immunity from it. So those who proclaim immunity are not doing it on a whim, but according to an international treaty.

charter.rights · February 25, 2010

So that's what you do before you post.

Why do you, as a white person, care so much about natives?

I'm really curious why you're like this.

This isn't a troll post or anything like that.

Not that it is any of your business....but I work closely with a number of Mohawk communities on a daily basis. The mythical history and law promoted by many people here is not the same as the actual history and law. I merely point out the latter to those who promote ignorance as truth.

Edited February 25, 2010 by charter.rights

Mr.Canada · February 25, 2010

Not that it is any of your business....but I work closely with a number of Mohawk communities on a daily basis. They mythical history and law is not the same as the actual history and law. I merely point out the latter to those who promote ignorance as truth.

I just wanted to better understand why you hate your own kind so much, non natives. You seem to have so much contempt for anyone who isn't native. Thank you.

Smallc · February 25, 2010

I just wanted to better understand why you hate your own kind so much, non natives.

Own kind? Really Mr. Canada?

charter.rights · February 25, 2010

I just wanted to better understand why you hate your own kind so much, non natives. You seem to have so much contempt for anyone who isn't native. Thank you.

We've long ago established where your shiny head lies on white sheets.....

But equity and equality go hand in hand. Native people get a bum rap from the kinds of Canadians who idolize Hitler, Residential School priests and crooked Indian Agents. Correcting injustice requires more than pulling one's pants down in a jail cell yelling unfair treatment. And dispelling your myths is only a part-time job, since you aren't very smart when it comes to law and justice.

M.Dancer · February 25, 2010

In the case of Six Nations or Akwesasne they are held in their own jails and tried by their own judges from the territory.

Yes for serious offenses like littering and public drunkeness. For murder they are hauled before real courts.

M.Dancer · February 25, 2010

Nope! Try again. They are Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) Nationals.

Have another drink and toke. It might begin to make more sense.

National myth is all fine and dandy, but when they want to travel to Germany, they need either a US or Canadian passport. The lacrosse team used one or the other, or more exactly, a US passport, ergo, it is a US lacrosse team made up of ethnics.

charter.rights · February 25, 2010

Yes for serious offenses like littering and public drunkeness. For murder they are hauled before real courts.

Nope! Akwesasne and Six Nations determine what is best for the convicted, not outside courts.

M.Dancer · February 25, 2010

Nope! Akwesasne and Six Nations determine what is best for the convicted, not outside courts.

That must explain why they are tried in Canadian courts. They know what's best, and what best is a real justice system.

SALABERRY-DE-VALLEYFIELD, Quebec, May 14— The editor of two Mohawk newspapers on the St. Regis Indian Reservation was charged with second-degree murder today in the death of a fellow Mohawk in a wild gun battle over casino gambling.
The editor, Doug George, 35 years old, was charged in Quebec Provincial Court in the shooting death of Harold Edwards, 31, on May 1 in Snye, Quebec. Mr. George turned himself in to the Quebec Provincial Police Sunday night.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/15/nyregion/mohawk-editor-held-in-killing.html?pagewanted=1

Mind you, a real nation would be able to do this themsleves..luckily they have Quebec instead.