Over 206,000 women have served in the U.S. military

[Guest American Woman]

No, these are the consequences of a-hole (and homophobe) men breaking the law, and at some point they need to be held responsible for their actions.

I wonder, out of curiosity, how many of the alleged rapes took place off-duty, and how often alcohol was a factor. I've heard of some pretty risque behavior by women in the military, too, some of who are 'looking for a good time' when they join.

Before anyone gets all over me for that, I'm just saying it's not all men jumping women as they are innocently going to the latrine to brush their teeth, yet that seems to be the only side presented when these statistics are given.

Also, given that the interviews with the women took place so much later in some instances, I have to wonder if 'regret' for their own behavior in any way influenced their answers. Sometimes when the fog of alcohol wears off/or with the passing of time, it's easy to convince oneself that it wasn't their fault that it happened if there are regrets-- 'I didn't really want to, he made me do it.'

Again, before any jumps all over me for that, I'm just saying that women have regrets and women don't always do the right thing, either, and that includes accusing men of rape when it wasn't rape. I'm just trying to put some perspective on the total picture/total numbers. I've seen women accuse men of some pretty terrible things just to get back at them and/or get their way in divorce/separations/break ups/etc.

And just as men most definitely should be held accountable for their actions, that's a given, women need to take responsibility for their actions, too.

[Gabriel]

I just don't believe that 30% of women in the military are rapes. A survey may say one thing, but it isn't necessarily the truth. This is American military we're talking about, not the Taliban. An uncited survey for such a strong claim needs more support. I also don't understand the point of the OP - naomiglover, do you have anything to add to your weakly cited statistics?

[Guest American Woman]

I just don't believe that 30% of women in the military are rapes. A survey may say one thing, but it isn't necessarily the truth. This is American military we're talking about, not the Taliban. An uncited survey for such a strong claim needs more support. I also don't understand the point of the OP - naomiglover, do you have anything to add to your weakly cited statistics?

I posted a link to the survey, and the "30% raped" doesn't even pertain to "in the MidEast since 2003" as naomiglover claims it does. The group of women surveyed include female vets from Vietnam to the present, which at the time was the first Gulf War. The women surveyed were chosen not at random from the population as a whole, but from the Department of Veterans Affairs comprehensive women's health care centers' registries, and that number was only 8693. So the women were chosen out of a small, select group, which could very well not be representative of female vets as a whole, and then an even smaller number were interviewed. Of those, 28% said they were raped, which was changed to "almost 30%" in a lot of articles, which was then changed to "30%" in more articles, and then naomiglover changed it to "close to 1/3" because of course it sounds worse that way, but the fact is, it's much closer to 1/4. And that's of a very small, select group, and pre-2003.

[Gabriel]

I posted a link to the survey, and the "30% raped" doesn't even pertain to "in the MidEast since 2003" as naomiglover claims it does. The group of women surveyed include female vets from Vietnam to the present, which at the time was the first Gulf War. The women surveyed were chosen not at random from the population as a whole, but from the Department of Veterans Affairs comprehensive women's health care centers' registries, and that number was only 8693. So the women were chosen out of a small, select group, which could very well not be representative of female vets as a whole, and then an even smaller number were interviewed. Of those, 28% said they were raped, which was changed to "almost 30%" in a lot of articles, which was then changed to "30%" in more articles, and then naomiglover changed it to "close to 1/3" because of course it sounds worse that way, but the fact is, it's much closer to 1/4. And that's of a very small, select group, and pre-2003.

Looks like par form the course with respect to naomiglover's patter of objectivity and appropriate context - or lack, thereof. Honestly, if there was ever an equitable military to be a part of with respect to men and women, I'd imagine the USA would be near or at the top of that list. Let's not forget that the USA is in many ways the world leader with respect to civil liberties and legal equalities. Again, this isn't the Taliban or North Korea.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Gabriel

[Michael Hardner]

I posted a link to the survey, and the "30% raped" doesn't even pertain to "in the MidEast since 2003" as naomiglover claims it does. The group of women surveyed include female vets from Vietnam to the present, which at the time was the first Gulf War. The women surveyed were chosen not at random from the population as a whole, but from the Department of Veterans Affairs comprehensive women's health care centers' registries, and that number was only 8693. So the women were chosen out of a small, select group, which could very well not be representative of female vets as a whole, and then an even smaller number were interviewed. Of those, 28% said they were raped, which was changed to "almost 30%" in a lot of articles, which was then changed to "30%" in more articles, and then naomiglover changed it to "close to 1/3" because of course it sounds worse that way, but the fact is, it's much closer to 1/4. And that's of a very small, select group, and pre-2003.

Good work, but do you have a cite ? Also, I saw that the number included attempted assaults.

[Guest American Woman]

Good work, but do you have a cite ? Also, I saw that the number included attempted assaults.

The source is the American Journal of Industrial Medicine, where the survey was published in 2003. I already posted a link to it, but here it is again: link Is that what you were asking for?

[Michael Hardner]

The source is the American Journal of Industrial Medicine, where the survey was published in 2003. I already posted a link to it, but here it is again: link Is that what you were asking for?

The initial paragraph talks about a 'cross section' but only if you read below do you find out that the list came from a health centre registry. It doesn't appear that this study used a truly random sample, so you can't say that 28% of females in service had this experience.