punked Posted January 5, 2010 Report Posted January 5, 2010 (edited) 6 Leadership Candidates including Dion missed the deadline to repay their leadership debts from 2006. That means the debts become donations but because most of the debts are in excess of 50,000 dollars they are very much over the 1000 dollars allowable for donations. Ohhhhh that sinking ship is going down slow. The money trouble continues for the Liberals. http://www.canada.com/news/2006+Liberal+leadership+aspirants+miss+debt+deadline/2405365/story.html Edited January 5, 2010 by punked Quote
Bugs Posted January 5, 2010 Report Posted January 5, 2010 6 Leadership Candidates including Dion missed the deadline to repay their leadership debts from 2006. That means the debts become donations but because most of the debts are in excess of 50,000 dollars they are very much over the 1000 dollars allowable for donations. Ohhhhh that sinking ship is going down slow. The money trouble continues for the Liberals. http://www.canada.com/news/2006+Liberal+leadership+aspirants+miss+debt+deadline/2405365/story.html Thanks for posting this. Its one of those items that could slip into the memory hole very easily, and it will be very revealing to see what the penalty will be for the shortfall? At one time, I understood that if the loans weren't repaid, they became private debts. If that's so, this is a break for Dion and the rest. But if it's a donation, is breaks other rules. What are the penalties, do you know? Does it count as a donation to the Liberal Party? Quote
msdogfood Posted January 5, 2010 Report Posted January 5, 2010 Thanks for posting this. Its one of those items that could slip into the memory hole very easily, and it will be very revealing to see what the penalty will be for the shortfall? At one time, I understood that if the loans weren't repaid, they became private debts. If that's so, this is a break for Dion and the rest. But if it's a donation, is breaks other rules. What are the penalties, do you know? Does it count as a donation to the Liberal Party? Hmmm! Quote
DrGreenthumb Posted January 5, 2010 Report Posted January 5, 2010 Hmmm! This seems like a non-story to me. How can money owed be a donation? If its a debt, it would be a negative donation wouldn't it? This is very different from the Conservative "in and out scheme" that had Conservative candidates deliberately breaking the rules, allowing the federal campaign to overspend beyond the election spending limits, in essence "buying" the election. Sorry, when it comes to unethical behavior the Cons take the cake. In fact they prorogue parliament and take away our democracy while they are at it. Quote
Topaz Posted January 5, 2010 Report Posted January 5, 2010 IF they broke the law then they should be dealt with and NO PARTY is above the law and I hope Harper and the Tories get that! Quote
Oleg Bach Posted January 5, 2010 Report Posted January 5, 2010 So the conservative bankers made sure that the evil 6 could not pay their debts..typical! Quote
nicky10013 Posted January 5, 2010 Report Posted January 5, 2010 Yeah, I fail to also see how this is relevant. They just haven't been able to raise enough dough to cover their debt. Big deal, I'm sure this isn't the first time it's happened. Seems like it's more a diversion to get away from the prorogation story. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted January 5, 2010 Report Posted January 5, 2010 Yeah, I fail to also see how this is relevant. They just haven't been able to raise enough dough to cover their debt. Big deal, I'm sure this isn't the first time it's happened. Seems like it's more a diversion to get away from the prorogation story. Could they not have gone to the bank and taken out a loan? The finacial technical part of it would have been settled by this move. Or in the alternative did they not want to committ themselves finacially to public service..everyone wants the glory for free I suppose - They are acting like junior conservatives if you ask me - always wanting someone else to pay for their glory and power - maybe we should send small bailout cheques to these 6? It's a sad state of affairs when running or holding public office is strickly controlled by wealth - I guess it's the begining of the spread of American culture into Canadian politics..who ever has the backing of a billion bucks gets to be king. Quote
nicky10013 Posted January 5, 2010 Report Posted January 5, 2010 Could they not have gone to the bank and taken out a loan? The finacial technical part of it would have been settled by this move. Or in the alternative did they not want to committ themselves finacially to public service..everyone wants the glory for free I suppose - They are acting like junior conservatives if you ask me - always wanting someone else to pay for their glory and power - maybe we should send small bailout cheques to these 6? It's a sad state of affairs when running or holding public office is strickly controlled by wealth - I guess it's the begining of the spread of American culture into Canadian politics..who ever has the backing of a billion bucks gets to be king. Was the loan from Elections Canada or a bank or the party? I had always just assumed it was from a bank to begin with. I don't view it as people trying to take the money for free. It seems to me that they'll have to repay the money if my understanding is correct. I don't know the protocol around loans so I'm not sure. All I know is that to me it wouldn't surprise me if this happens to a lot of candidates across all parties. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted January 5, 2010 Report Posted January 5, 2010 Was the loan from Elections Canada or a bank or the party? I had always just assumed it was from a bank to begin with. I don't view it as people trying to take the money for free. It seems to me that they'll have to repay the money if my understanding is correct. I don't know the protocol around loans so I'm not sure. All I know is that to me it wouldn't surprise me if this happens to a lot of candidates across all parties. Keep an eye on who can afford it and who can not - and you will know who the minions are and who are not. Money and the control of it is the strongest political tool ever. I suggest that it might be fair if this debt be forgiven. Why should a person bail out of public service because he is not as well off as his competator? The poor guy might be of better service than the rich one..know one knows and it would be ashamed to remove people from the system because they did not have the price of the ticket. Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 5, 2010 Report Posted January 5, 2010 Was the loan from Elections Canada or a bank or the party? I had always just assumed it was from a bank to begin with. I don't view it as people trying to take the money for free. It seems to me that they'll have to repay the money if my understanding is correct. I don't know the protocol around loans so I'm not sure. All I know is that to me it wouldn't surprise me if this happens to a lot of candidates across all parties. The problem is that loans that go over the the amount of time elections Canada gives you to pay them off, become a donation, and donations can't exceed 1100 in one calender year to the eda, to the candidate, or to the party. That is the problem, what should happen now, is that the Liberal Party should have to pay back the loans out of party money. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Oleg Bach Posted January 5, 2010 Report Posted January 5, 2010 If they have a contract they must honour it. Quote
eyeball Posted January 5, 2010 Report Posted January 5, 2010 Was the loan from Elections Canada or a bank or the party? I had always just assumed it was from a bank to begin with. I don't view it as people trying to take the money for free. It seems to me that they'll have to repay the money if my understanding is correct. I don't know the protocol around loans so I'm not sure. All I know is that to me it wouldn't surprise me if this happens to a lot of candidates across all parties. Brison made his final loan payments to Nova Scotia businessmen Donald Sobey and David Hennigar on Dec. 5. Its all just business busy busy busy...ness. It'll probably all be settled over a handshake and cocktails at some golf-club. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Alta4ever Posted January 6, 2010 Report Posted January 6, 2010 bump Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
capricorn Posted January 6, 2010 Report Posted January 6, 2010 I do believe the Liberal Party will do its best to help pay these debts. Dan Lauzon, a spokesman for the federal Liberal Party, told The Globe on Tuesday that the candidates who have not repaid their loans will be getting some help to sort out the problems they now face."It’s important to point out that though each leadership campaign is solely responsible for its debt repayment, the Liberal Party is working with Elections Canada, former leadership candidates and their financial agents to facilitate fundraising and the repayment process in order to ensure full compliance with the Canada Elections Act," Mr. Lauzon said in an e-mail. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/bureau-blog/liberal-also-rans-face-2006-debt-woe/article1419353/ What I am waiting for is word on how far Elections Canada will bend to accommodate the debtors. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Bugs Posted January 6, 2010 Report Posted January 6, 2010 Keep an eye on who can afford it and who can not - and you will know who the minions are and who are not. Money and the control of it is the strongest political tool ever. I suggest that it might be fair if this debt be forgiven. Why should a person bail out of public service because he is not as well off as his competator? The poor guy might be of better service than the rich one..know one knows and it would be ashamed to remove people from the system because they did not have the price of the ticket. Yeah, Oleg knows who the minions are! I don't know the exact rules, but Bob Rae got a couple of hundred thousand dollars from his brother. Goodness knows if he has that much money just laying around, but he probably signed a note at the Bank. Rae's brother has a life-long association with Power Corporation. It's more or less the same with the others. There may or may not be some ultimate backing from the Corporate world lurking in the shadows. The rules prevent any one individual from exceeding a maximum donation -- and it's fairly low. So you can see the size of the loophole that Bob Rae poked in the legislation. But it's not the bankers, it's more at the level of personal loans. By considering these unpaid loans to be donations, Elections Canada has effectively allowed people to donate thousands of dollars more than they were legally allowed to. Secondly, what about the people to whom the loans are owed? How does Elections Canada decide that these people's loans are to be considered a donations? There's laws that deal with that already. If it's an overly large donation, there should be some 'fine' assessed against the 'income' the Liberals get from Elections Canada. Otherwise, Elections Canada has conspired with the candidates in defeating the purpose of the reforms of election financing. Quote
Molly Posted January 6, 2010 Report Posted January 6, 2010 But they are NOT donations to a party. In theory, leadership campaign donations could even be directly for the purposes of undermining a party. It's a curiousity as to the arcane workings of Elections Canada, but the only scandal is the ineffectuality of such mountains of red tape. Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
Mr.Canada Posted January 6, 2010 Report Posted January 6, 2010 No, the liberals are allowed to break the law, it's just fine. If Harper steps out of line then all hell breaks loose. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Topaz Posted January 6, 2010 Report Posted January 6, 2010 No, the liberals are allowed to break the law, it's just fine. If Harper steps out of line then all hell breaks loose. Speaking of Harper, I do remember the opposition parties asked four years ago for his info. on his donations,never did hear him giving to them. Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 6, 2010 Report Posted January 6, 2010 (edited) Speaking of Harper, I do remember the opposition parties asked four years ago for his info. on his donations,never did hear him giving to them. http://www.conservative.ca/media/20050819-Harper-Contributions.pdf on the conservative party website Edited January 6, 2010 by Alta4ever Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
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