Time to Condemn Iran

[eyeball]

I think the U.S. should promote its interests. Those usually, but don't always, coincide with democracy.

And it's the few that didn't that have undone you. I think the vast amount of good will that can be undone by just a small number of bad experiences is enormously under appreciated when it comes to foreign policy.

[eyeball]

I don't know why this very astute observation escapes so many people. They dream of a USA that has never really existed.

No, we just recall the principles that the USA were founded on.

Never mind what Jesus would do, what about George Washington? Would he have partnered up with the British in the business of infecting the world with even more blood thirsty tyrants?

[Oleg Bach]

No, we just recall the principles that the USA were founded on.

Never mind what Jesus would do, what about George Washington? Would he have partnered up with the British in the business of infecting the world with even more blood thirsty tyrants?

BC knows that AMERICA has always been a nation ruled by pirates..and pirates generate more pirates...Look at the dumb broken down state of Somalia - they are just doing what America does on a very tiny and minor scale...Look at our first Nations buisness guys - They have learned from the masters also. We keep thinking that those evil buggers on top of the heap do things for money - that they are motivated by the same things that we are...wrong - those with wealth in the billions do things for fun and one of their worst debauched traits is power mongering mixed with a good doze of sadism.

[ToadBrother]

No, we just recall the principles that the USA were founded on.

Never mind what Jesus would do, what about George Washington? Would he have partnered up with the British in the business of infecting the world with even more blood thirsty tyrants?

Unfortunately, George Washington's views on foreign entanglement were not terribly sustainable. I mean, the US was quite happy to stay out of WWI, until the Germans basically started sinking any ship crossing the North Atlantic. The same was the same for the early years of WWII, though there were a couple naval actions and Lend Lease which heavily bent the notion of neutrality. But at the end of the day, the Founding Fathers views were not realistic on this point. The minute you become a great economic power, whether you like it or not, you're going to be a target, and since almost wars are fundamentally economic in origin, it means that someone is going to challenge your economic power, and at its most extreme, it means war.

[bush_cheney2004]

No, we just recall the principles that the USA were founded on.

...and you even manage to screw that up. America's "principles" are not just convenient ideals for you to co-opt whenever it suits your political purposes.

Never mind what Jesus would do, what about George Washington? Would he have partnered up with the British in the business of infecting the world with even more blood thirsty tyrants?

Yes...he would....and did. Canada too...but you always leave that part out.

[jbg]

Unfortunately, George Washington's views on foreign entanglement were not terribly sustainable. I mean, the US was quite happy to stay out of WWI, until the Germans basically started sinking any ship crossing the North Atlantic. The same was the same for the early years of WWII, though there were a couple naval actions and Lend Lease which heavily bent the notion of neutrality. But at the end of the day, the Founding Fathers views were not realistic on this point. The minute you become a great economic power, whether you like it or not, you're going to be a target, and since almost wars are fundamentally economic in origin, it means that someone is going to challenge your economic power, and at its most extreme, it means war.

I think the unspoken part of the change from the Founding Fathers days was the conversion of Great Britain from an enemy to a friend, and the end of the British-French wars. Once the U.S. became allies of both, we were inevitably sucked in when Britain was in extremis. Back in the days of the Founding Fathers we would have been happy if France could have finished off Britain. We in the U.S. were not about to let Britain die and that fact ultimately pulled us into both wars.

[Born Free]

It would be very naive to assume that the US doesn't have a hand in whatever unrest has been brewing in Iran as it is.

Look up "Operation Ajax". It was a joint Brit/CIA operation in the 50's to overthrow the Iran government. It's been downhill ever since. It was all about oil.

[bloodyminded]

...and you even manage to screw that up. America's "principles" are not just convenient ideals for you to co-opt whenever it suits your political purposes.

He can do what he likes with them. It's not for you to give permission.

Yes...he would....and did. Canada too...but you always leave that part out.

Eyeball continually condemns Canadian actions. There's a good reason you don't know this: As the thief is paranoid that everyone else will steal from him, the smug nationalist believes that everyone must think like him.

[Alta4ever]

IAEA says secret Iranian research could be aimed at nuclear weapons

By Joby Warrick

Washington Post Staff Writer

Thursday, February 18, 2010; 3:31 PM

Iran appears to have recently pursued secret research projects that could help it develop nuclear warheads, the United Nations' nuclear watchdog said Thursday, casting fresh doubt on Iranian claims that its nuclear intentions are peaceful.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/18/AR2010021803378.html

Edited February 19, 2010 by Charles Anthony
merged thread

[eyeball]

The IAEA...isn't this a brainchild of the same people that gave us the IPCC?

It's funny how many people who automatically reject everything the latter says are so quick to accept everything the former says.

Not the ha ha sort of funny, but the weird one.

[Bonam]

The reality is that once you know how to enrich uranium, making a nuclear weapon is really not very difficult. You can find all the information you need in any one of dozens of university level nuclear physics textbooks, or online. The ONLY real difficulty in producing a basic fission weapon is getting the uranium/plutonium needed.

All the debate about whether Iran's "intentions" are peaceful or military is irrelevant, because once they have a functioning, large-scale nuclear industry, and all the expertise that comes along with it, making nuclear weapons would be trivial. It's just like, for example, nations like Canada and Japan don't have nukes, but if we wanted to we could have them in a very short time frame.

If the world's major powers believe that Iran with nuclear weapons is an unacceptable threat, then they cannot let Iran develop any significant nuclear industry, whatever its nature. That's all there really is to it.

[KeyStone]

The reality is that once you know how to enrich uranium, making a nuclear weapon is really not very difficult. You can find all the information you need in any one of dozens of university level nuclear physics textbooks, or online. The ONLY real difficulty in producing a basic fission weapon is getting the uranium/plutonium needed.

All the debate about whether Iran's "intentions" are peaceful or military is irrelevant, because once they have a functioning, large-scale nuclear industry, and all the expertise that comes along with it, making nuclear weapons would be trivial. It's just like, for example, nations like Canada and Japan don't have nukes, but if we wanted to we could have them in a very short time frame.

If the world's major powers believe that Iran with nuclear weapons is an unacceptable threat, then they cannot let Iran develop any significant nuclear industry, whatever its nature. That's all there really is to it.

Probably true.

The shame of it, is the example the US has set.

North Korea: Gets nukes. Ignores all laws. Refuses to cooperate

Result: Concessions from international community.

Iraq: Gives up nuclear program, long range missiles, attempts to abide by resolutions, gives access to all facilities, allows UN inspectors, and fly-overs.

Result: Invaded. Leaders killed. Shock and awe attacks, hundrds of thousands dead.

So, is it really any surprise that Iran would like to be in a position to develop a nuclear weapon on short notice, or at least allow an ambiguous position such that nations don't know if they have a bomb or not?

[Bonam]

Probably true.

The shame of it, is the example the US has set.

North Korea: Gets nukes. Ignores all laws. Refuses to cooperate

Result: Concessions from international community.

Iraq: Gives up nuclear program, long range missiles, attempts to abide by resolutions, gives access to all facilities, allows UN inspectors, and fly-overs.

Result: Invaded. Leaders killed. Shock and awe attacks, hundrds of thousands dead.

So, is it really any surprise that Iran would like to be in a position to develop a nuclear weapon on short notice, or at least allow an ambiguous position such that nations don't know if they have a bomb or not?

No, it is perfectly understandable that Iran wants a nuclear weapon. Any nation wishing to ensure its sovereignty should want nuclear weapons, given their effectiveness as a deterrent. But what Iran may or may not want is not really the primary concern. The world's major powers see a nuclear Iran as posing a potential threat. Regardless of the fairness of it, they should and eventually will take steps to ensure their interests.

[GostHacked]

...and you even manage to screw that up. America's "principles" are not just convenient ideals for you to co-opt whenever it suits your political purposes.

You are right, we should just leave that to the US. They do a better job if it than anyone else.

[bush_cheney2004]

You are right, we should just leave that to the US. They do a better job if it than anyone else.

That's right....best to stick to fighting over English or French at the Olympics.

[Oleg Bach]

BC - really, I believed that you would at least grasp the concept of incrimental conditioning..Iran has had a workable nuke for years..they just did not want to spring in on the world all in one day. It is better and makes more sense that they would slowly aclimatize the world to the idea that they had a big gun then to spring it all at once...NOW to be blunt - There are a few new Russian billionares. There are many fully operational nukes that are missing from the former Soveit arsnenal....It makes total sense that Iran has had a few nukes in a dusty basement for at least 10 years.

The CIA knows this - The Russian insiders know this..and now you know this. It looks as if America might be getting ready to rid them selves of that pesky annoance that is Israel. Holocast? You have not seen nothing yet.

[Oleg Bach]

IT takes about two to three generations in America to create a billionare - In the new soviet free Russia it can be done in a five years..or even five minutes if you are a former keeper of the nukes stock - I would safely repeat that some nukes went to Iran..why would they not have gone there - the Iranians have tons of oil money and the Russians are a mafia enjoying the good life - sounds like a deal made in heaven - so why worry? Just because Israel is pissed off is no reason to get in to a huff.

[bush_cheney2004]

...The CIA knows this - The Russian insiders know this..and now you know this. It looks as if America might be getting ready to rid them selves of that pesky annoance that is Israel. Holocast? You have not seen nothing yet.

No..I don't think so. Israel rocks...Iran sucks. What will prolly happen is the Obama Doctrine to update standing US policy for using nuclear weapons....as in any nuclear attack on US allies or interests will be considered a direct attack on the United States with resulting nuclear response. Also known as the Green Glass Parking Lot Doctrine.

[Oleg Bach]

That is the point - Iran nukes Israel and Israel just in time nukes Iran..problem sloves and I adore green glass bottles - just get the bone chips out first - God am I brutal today!

[Oleg Bach]

Don't wanna see any nuking....Seriously - I still have this theory that black market nuke are all over the place - intact and useable- It only makes sense that Iran prolong letting the world know they are armed - Like I said they simply want us to get use to the idea. As mentioned it is known that after the fall of the Soviet Union, nukes went missing - where are they? It also makes sense who ever has enough money can buy one - Iran is an oil rich nation..as they say - We got nukes put up your dukes get use to it.