Long delays at US airports for security

[jbg]

Hmmmm, you mean like waging a War on Terror in other people's countries so we can fight terrorists over there instead of over here?

I'm not surprised considering how vulnerable the empire is to even the simplest things like box-cutters and condoms.

What idiotic comments.

The fact is that the U.S. was safe from further attacks, by and large, for the portion of the Bush presidency after 9/11. People thought, correctly, that he'd do something.

Now, we get security theatre and political correctness. It matters little whether the weapon of choice is a boxcutter, condom, or a heavy object findable on the plane itself. The "empire" is vulnerable to unchecked barbarians, not unchecked weapons.

[capricorn]

Perhaps I should have said address ourselves to the causes of terrorism. By ourselves I mean us, the empire, that includes you and me.

I don't feel part of some kind of "empire".

The only official sign of what I mean that I've seen to date is reflected in the things Madeline Albright said about the 1953 overthrow of Iran and what Jean Chretien said in the wake of 9/11.

I'll speak to Canadian politics. When 9/11 happened, Chretien's government was busy planning a G8 meeting to be held in 2002 and committing us to more aid for Africa. He was in the midst of building a legacy around poverty. His mindset was that poverty and western wealth were at the core of all ills.

G8 Summit 2002 Agenda

* A self-help plan for Africa. The proposed plan was developed by the Canadian government in consultation with African leaders and would commit G8 countries to help increase growth, investment and health care assistance to the more democratic countries in Africa.

http://canadaonline.about.com/od/trade/a/g8kananaskis.htm

I do think that the Western world is getting too rich in relations to the poor world, and necessarily, we're looked upon as being arrogant, self-satisfied, greedy and with no limits. And the 11th of September is an occasion for me to realize it even more.

http://www.ctv.ca/special/sept11/hubs/canadian/mccarthy01.html

As it turns out, Chretien turned to his real love...China.

[eyeball]

The fact is that the U.S. was safe from further attacks, by and large, for the portion of the Bush presidency after 9/11.

It was probably a whole lot safer way back in 1952.

The "empire" is vulnerable to unchecked barbarians, not unchecked weapons.

The blow-back from 1953 and pretty much ever since you mean. What else on Earth could motivate anyone to attack a Shining Beacon that is so gentle and kind?

Define barbarian. Is it anything like this? Mr Abdulmutallab never gave his tutors any cause for concern, and was a well mannered, quietly spoken, polite and able young man. How does a university educated person go from this to a barbarian who hates freedom? It defies all logic or reason.

Perhaps the moral dissonance of a Shining Beacon of democracy and liberty that also wheels and deals with dictators and tyrants just becomes so great that it makes some people snap. Maybe the dissonance manifests itself like a screaming case of tinnitus with a blinding headache or something.

[bush_cheney2004]

It was probably a whole lot safer way back in 1952.

But not 1951...or 1950?

The blow-back from 1953 and pretty much ever since you mean. What else on Earth could motivate anyone to attack a Shining Beacon that is so gentle and kind?

Well hell, Germany andf Japan must really be pissed!

Perhaps the moral dissonance of a Shining Beacon of democracy and liberty that also wheels and deals with dictators and tyrants just becomes so great that it makes some people snap. Maybe the dissonance manifests itself like a screaming case of tinnitus with a blinding headache or something.

Yea...then they invade Haiti.

[eyeball]

I don't feel part of some kind of "empire".

Well I don't either really but, we do live in a democracy and so we are responsible for our governments and like our friend BushCheney 2004 correctly and often points out we've pretty much been with the same "empire's" program since day one. I suppose we could argue that since we're under a monarchy we really can't be held accountable for our governments involvement but I doubt that will get us off that hook.

I'll speak to Canadian politics. When 9/11 happened, Chretien's government was busy planning a G8 meeting to be held in 2002 and committing us to more aid for Africa. He was in the midst of building a legacy around poverty. His mindset was that poverty and western wealth were at the core of all ills.

http://canadaonline.about.com/od/trade/a/g8kananaskis.htm

http://www.ctv.ca/special/sept11/hubs/canadian/mccarthy01.html

As it turns out, Chretien turned to his real love...China.

Ah, I see. Chretien's comments were more like a Freudian slip. Deep down he knew we should be leery of wheeling and dealing with dictators and tyrants too.

[eyeball]

Yea...then they invade Haiti.

I know, it's as twisted as twisted gets isn't it? FUBAR in no uncertain terms.

[bush_cheney2004]

I know, it's as twisted as twisted gets isn't it? FUBAR in no uncertain terms.

So when do you cut your nets? Not so FUBAR after all, eh?

[capricorn]

Ah, I see. Chretien's comments were more like a Freudian slip.

Could be although it sounds more like confusion to me.

Deep down he knew we should be leery of wheeling and dealing with dictators and tyrants too.

Too, he might have wondered deep down why the populations of those poor countries and failed states continued to accept barbaric and shoddy treatment from their tyrannical and greedy rulers? Might he not have also wondered why they unleashed their hatred on the West and not on those who kept them in misery?

We don't know.

[eyeball]

So when do you cut your nets? Not so FUBAR after all, eh?

Huh?

[bloodyminded]

People generally are annoyed at flight delays and cancellations, so I see nothing unusual about "some Canadians vow[ing] never to fly to the USA again."

Bush-Cheney doesn't care much for Canadians, so the little jabs--which are continual--are merely part of his cherished repertoire of reflexively withering scorn.

[jbg]

Bush-Cheney doesn't care much for Canadians, so the little jabs--which are continual--are merely part of his cherished repertoire of reflexively withering scorn.

I'm not going to trouble myself to look but plenty of your posts have expressed deep contempt for my country.

[Guest American Woman]

Bush-Cheney doesn't care much for Canadians, so the little jabs--which are continual--are merely part of his cherished repertoire of reflexively withering scorn.

I don't think he cares much for a lot of Americans, either, although I'm sure he's quite fond of me.

I understand why some Canadians would feel as if they never want to travel through the U.S. again. It's a normal reaction; if they can fly with less hassles by avoiding lay-overs in the U.S., it would make sense to do that. But some, if not most, will likely end up flying through the U.S. again. As I said, most times initial reactions are different from what we actually do, and I understand that.

But as for those who are complaining about how difficult air travel is now, and are truly angered over it, I feel differently; and that includes people from all over. If they can't devote an hour more of their time to travel without complaining, if this is going to ruin their lives in some way, I find that attitude to be whiny and spoiled.

As I said before, I'm sure no one on that NW flight, or their friends and family, will be complaining if they have to stand in line an hour longer, or be exposed to higher security, in the future.

Too, he might have wondered deep down why the populations of those poor countries and failed states continued to accept barbaric and shoddy treatment from their tyrannical and greedy rulers? Might he not have also wondered why they unleashed their hatred on the West and not on those who kept them in misery?

Good point!

Edited December 29, 2009 by American Woman

[bloodyminded]

I'm not going to trouble myself to look but plenty of your posts have expressed deep contempt for my country.

Nope. Not a single one. I like the United States very much.

Every criticism I've offered have been inclusive of all guilty parties, certainly including Canada.

[bush_cheney2004]

Bush-Cheney doesn't care much for Canadians, so the little jabs--which are continual--are merely part of his cherished repertoire of reflexively withering scorn.

Correct....I don't care for smug, sanctimonious Canadians who conveniently forget their own domestic and foreign policies, complicity in wars and peacekilling, economic exploitation of developing nations, and $1.5 billion in daily trade with the "evil Satan" all while "jabbing" same.

If you can't take it...then don't dish it out.

[bloodyminded]

Correct....I don't care for smug, sanctimonious Canadians who conveniently forget their own domestic and foreign policies, complicity in wars and peacekilling, economic exploitation of developing nations, and $1.5 billion in daily trade with the "evil Satan" all while "jabbing" same.

If you can't take it...then don't dish it out.

I don't dish it out at all. I challenge you to find a case where i have. Unlike yourself, I don't continually jab at my neighbour outr of somne sense of woudned patriotism. And that IS your shtick, transparently.

Your self-assessment is incorrect, even masturbatory. Your snipes are ubiquitous, usually unrelated to smug Canadian anti-Americanism. Your snipes outnumber such boring Canadian foolishness by perhaps a thousand percent.

And note well: I'm not saying that smug and self-righteous anti-Americanism doesn't exist. It clearly and incontestably exists.

I'm saying that you believe I'm one of them, or claim to believe it...even though you wouldn't be able to find a single example where I've sniped at Americans out of some sense of Canadian self-superiority. Not one.

It's really only that you are a smug and sanctimonious American throwing tantrums with a calm facade.

[eyeball]

Could be although it sounds more like confusion to me.

Well, his opposition at the time seemed pretty certain Chretien was implying the U.S. asked for it because he was an anti-American lefty not because he was confused. This fits the pattern of similar simplifications like "they hate our freedoms" meant to dismiss any notion that terrorist motivations might stem from a range of more complicated grievances including the "root causes" theory of western interference.

Too, he might have wondered deep down why the populations of those poor countries and failed states continued to accept barbaric and shoddy treatment from their tyrannical and greedy rulers? Might he not have also wondered why they unleashed their hatred on the West and not on those who kept them in misery?

We don't know.

I suspect when left to their own devices these populations do eventually unleash their hatred on those who are keeping them in misery. Like in Iran right now for example. A closer look at Iran also reveals some insights into why these dictators persist.

The dissident citizens are mostly young, urban and educated; the regime's supporters are mostly old, rural, poor and badly educated. Exceptions, of course, would include the business people who get rich on government contracts, and those employed in the various security services and the pro-government press or ministries.

Source

In any case a more thorough and critical examination of all the root causes of terror might result in a reconciliation that eventually diminishes the terror, the fear and maybe even dictatorship and tyranny. Surely these are laudable goals.

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't dish it out at all. I challenge you to find a case where i have. Unlike yourself, I don't continually jab at my neighbour outr of somne sense of woudned patriotism. And that IS your shtick, transparently.

Stop whining...I hate that too. I am not your "neighbour", "cousin", "big brother", or "friend to the south". Nation states have interests, not "friends".

Your self-assessment is incorrect, even masturbatory. Your snipes are ubiquitous, usually unrelated to smug Canadian anti-Americanism. Your snipes outnumber such boring Canadian foolishness by perhaps a thousand percent.

You seem to be really hung up on masturbation....this is a clue. My snipes are intended to do just that, and newbies like you are always first to cry the loudest (so sensitive, eh?). Other members in good standing know exactly what my schtick is all about....some hate it...others tolerate it as a very direct perspective from one of 305,000,000 Americans.

And note well: I'm not saying that smug and self-righteous anti-Americanism doesn't exist. It clearly and incontestably exists.

...stating the obvious....good job <clapping>.

I'm saying that you believe I'm one of them, or claim to believe it...even though you wouldn't be able to find a single example where I've sniped at Americans out of some sense of Canadian self-superiority. Not one.

Then why are you so defensive about it?

It's really only that you are a smug and sanctimonious American throwing tantrums with a calm facade.

No, I celebrate American arrogance and exceptionalism, embracing all that is good and bad....and wishing for more of the same. I have no respect for your brand of sanctimonious whimpering from the peanut gallery.

[bloodyminded]

Stop whining...I hate that too. I am not your "neighbour", "cousin", "big brother", or "friend to the south". Nation states have interests, not "friends".

And you call me "sensitive"? You're downright delicate about everything.

Oh, and "neighbour" doesn't have to be taken as a sign of affection. I DID mean it that way, yes (as you are thankfully not indicative of the fine American population gnerally)...but if it helps you, and keeps you from your boring ranting, think of it in purely geographical terms.

My snipes are intended to do just that, and newbies like you are always first to cry the loudest (so sensitive, eh?). Other members in good standing know exactly what my schtick is all about....some hate it...others tolerate it as a very direct perspective from one of 305,000,000 Americans.

I'm only laughing back at you as you laugh at us. You don't much like it being dished back, I see. That's weak...neighbour.

...stating the obvious....good job <clapping>.

I was accurately correcting your misapprehension about my agenda. I'm not the smug nationalist you pretend to despise; you are.

Then why are you so defensive about it?

Not defensive. Pointing out your foolishness. Again, I thought you appreciated this sort of thing.

No, I celebrate American arrogance and exceptionalism, embracing all that is good and bad....and wishing for more of the same. I have no respect for your brand of sanctimonious whimpering from the peanut gallery.

Again: you're the one whimpering, throwing tantrums, and exposing your wounded pride. I'm only (as you say) pointing out the obvious. Hypernationalists are astonishingly unaware of their own transparency.

Quaint, though. Like doggies walking on their hind legs.

[bush_cheney2004]

And you call me "sensitive"? You're downright delicate about everything.

I am a lot of things, but delicate is not one of them.

Oh, and "neighbour" doesn't have to be taken as a sign of affection. I DID mean it that way, yes (as you are thankfully not indicative of the fine American population gnerally)...but if it helps you, and keeps you from your boring ranting, think of it in purely geographical terms.

So is Mexico, but it doesn't whine nearly as much.

I'm only laughing back at you as you laugh at us. You don't much like it being dished back, I see. That's weak...neighbour.

Then play the game and stop complaining.

I was accurately correcting your misapprehension about my agenda. I'm not the smug nationalist you pretend to despise; you are.

You have been corrected several times, so accuracy is not a strength.

Not defensive. Pointing out your foolishness. Again, I thought you appreciated this sort of thing.

I do...playing rope-a-dope with you is fun.

Again: you're the one whimpering, throwing tantrums, and exposing your wounded pride. I'm only (as you say) pointing out the obvious. Hypernationalists are astonishingly unaware of their own transparency.

Of course...you are smugly superior in every way...LOL!

Quaint, though. Like doggies walking on their hind legs.

I'm glad you took my advice and found a "friend" at the shelter.

[Oleg Bach]

The few eccentric Zionist egg head congress people you have in the states love this shit. So do the manufacturing guys that are going to continue making billions of dollars on security contracts that include some very expensive gadgetry. Look at frinking CNN - they are milking this incident like it was the end of the world...and even that former security advisor that looks like a bulemic Barbie Doll is in on the act. Israel also loves this shit - It gives more power to their corrupt little enterprize.

This little punk with the rich banking daddy that almost burned his balls off is not some "terrorist" - we have to stop using that term and start calling them what they are...simpletons - crazy people - nutbars! These are human drones- set into action by gangsters vowing for a piece of the great American pie. We should attempt to hack into the human drone factor, the suicidal nuts - the kids that they put into action to harm us - we have the expertise` If we can gayify and butchify half of our young population then it should not be so hard to manipulate the minds of potential suicide bombers - let the social engineers and their creepy masters launch a program to re-program those in the middle east...that are potential recruits.

BUT there are people in the world who are empowered by terrorism..and some are our allies. Lets not give the title of TERRORIST..To every lonely and crazed punk that is barely out of puberty...go to the source - forget the drones. Get the job done - if are authorities can not curb this insanity it is because they don't want it curbed - I see to much glee in the media and that media is owned by the people who adore terrorism - because they do not have the intelligence to rule so they use surrogate fear inflicters to do their dirty bidding.

[bloodyminded]

I am a lot of things, but delicate is not one of them.

It is your primary quality. Daintiness, even. This is the case with all nationalists, without exception. It's their defining attribute.

I assure you this is not my fault.

So is Mexico, but it doesn't whine nearly as much.

Many Canadians are whiny, I agree. But if you weren't working solely from your aggrieved sense of American nationalism, you'd be all over your whiny compatriots. You guys are our partners in whiny victim status.

Then play the game and stop complaining.

I'm playing the game; you keep complaining about it each time I do so.

You have been corrected several times, so accuracy is not a strength.

A correction from you is a sublime compliment.

I do...playing rope-a-dope with you is fun.

I know, I'm a fun person. You're not the first person to enjoy my company.

Of course...you are smugly superior in every way...LOL!

No, you obedient nationalists think yourselves smugly superior in every way.

I'm glad you took my advice and found a "friend" at the shelter.

Ripostes are no good when they make no sense. Consider this good advice, in my generous effort to keep you from being soundly humiliated in argument.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Ripostes are no good when they make no sense. Consider this good advice, in my generous effort to keep you from being soundly humiliated in argument.

You have lost the cadence and punchline....but others haven't. In time, you will also learn the force, grasshopper.

[bloodyminded]

You have lost the cadence and punchline....but others haven't. In time, you will also learn the force, grasshopper.

Yes, your final line isn't a prosaic non sequiter at all, but a profoundly poetic moment that will live on forever.

[Wilber]

Would it be too much for our two countries to learn something from THESE GUYS

[Oleg Bach]

IF