US discussed Iraq regime change...

[Moonlight Graham]

The fan is still moving, and s**t keeps hitting it.

US discussed Iraq regime change a month after Bush took office, senior British officials say

By John Byrne

Tuesday, November 24th, 2009 -- 9:13 am

“The chairman of the British Joint Intelligence Committee in 2001 told investigators Monday that elements of the Bush Administration were pushing for regime change in Iraq in early 2001, months before the 9/11 attacks and two years before President George W. Bush formally announced the Iraq war.

Sir Peter Ricketts, now-Secretary at the Foreign Office, said that US and British officials believed at the time that measures against Iraq were failing: “sanctions, an incentive to lift sanctions if Saddam allowed the United Weapons inspectors to return, and the ‘no fly’ zones over the north and south of the country.”

Ricketts also said that US officials had raised the prospect of regime change in Iraq, asserting that the British weren’t supportive of the idea at the time.

“We were conscious that there were other voices in Washington, some of whom were talking about regime change,” Ricketts said.

The head of the British Foreign Office’s Middle East department, Sir William Patey, told the inquiry that his office was aware of regime change talk from some parts of the Bush Administration shortly after they took office in 2001.”

The article goes on further. link

[bush_cheney2004]

Regime change in Iraq was a matter of US Public Law as of November 1998.

H.R.4655

Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Enrolled Bill (Sent to President))

One Hundred Fifth Congress

of the

United States of America

Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 - Declares that it should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government.

http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/US/Legislation/ILA.htm

[Gabriel]

How is this news? The free world has been concerned about Saddam's regime for decades. To try to paint this as some sort of shocking revelation (this story is "new" for a few days, now) is pure hilarity. Thanks for the laughs.

[Sir Bandelot]

I see the British have begun an investigation-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8377730.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8373202.stm

Blair may do some serious time if these allegations turn out to be true.

Rumour has it Bush et al may be next...

Edited November 27, 2009 by Sir Bandelot

[Gabriel]

Blair may do some serious time if these allegations turn out to be true.

Rumour has it Bush et al may be next...

What in the world are you talking about? Do you even read the articles you link? How do allegations of prisoner mistreatment and murder and an inquiry into the planning of the military operations in Iraq with respect to validity and resources result in Blair doing "serious time"?

You are hilarious, I'll give you that.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Rumour has it Bush et al may be next...

Rumour also has it that pigs with wings can fly.

[Sir Bandelot]

With these trials, we are seeing the beginning of the end of the neocon adventure.

The old Bush days, where anything goes, complete disregard for international treaties, conventions and human rights, are over. War criminals, no matter what country they are from should be prosecuted if the law exists.

Seems like everybody is getting on the bandwagon now.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34166612/ns/world_news-europe/

Yes indeed.

Edited November 27, 2009 by Sir Bandelot

[GostHacked]

How is this news? The free world has been concerned about Saddam's regime for decades. To try to paint this as some sort of shocking revelation (this story is "new" for a few days, now) is pure hilarity. Thanks for the laughs.

I'd say Saddam was well contained. After the first gulf war, Iraq's ability to project military powere was drasticly redeuced. This was the reason there was not much of a fight when Iraq was invaded the second time in 2003. The US Military essentially just ran the course and got control over Iraq in a very very short time.

Bush_Cheney2004

Was it law or policiy? Or both? What is the difference?

[bush_cheney2004]

...Was it law or policiy? Or both? What is the difference?

It was both....see this Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act

Clinton and Blair promptly bombed Iraq for four days in a decapitation effort that failed (Operation Desert Fox).

As you know, George W. Bush did not take office until January 2001.

Edited November 27, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[eyeball]

What is the difference?

The difference is that Clinton's Bill called for the U.S. to merely support any regime change initiated from within Iraq whereas Bush's called for the U.S. to actually go in and change it themselves....with a little help from their friends.

Recall that Bush Sr. said he was ready to do both following Iraq's defeat in Kuwait but we all know how that turned out.

Edited November 27, 2009 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

The difference is that Clinton's Bill called for the U.S. to merely support any regime change initiated from within Iraq whereas Bush's called for the U.S. to actually go in and change it themselves....with a little help from their friends.

No...the difference is that President Bush actually did it.

Recall that Bush Sr. said he was ready to do both following Iraq's defeat in Kuwait but we all know how that turned out.

Yes...it turned out as an incomplete job.

[eyeball]

No...the difference is that President Bush actually did it

.

On false pretences.

Yes...it turned out as an incomplete job.

The jury is still out, way out, on how completed Jr's project is or if it was even worth the effort.

[bush_cheney2004]

.

On false pretences.

The Iraq Liberation Act and Congressional War Resolution of October 2002 were not false.

The jury is still out, way out, on how completed Jr's project is or if it was even worth the effort.

The jury is also out on Jesus.

[eyeball]

The Iraq Liberation Act and Congressional War Resolution of October 2002 were not false.

The available intelligence used in the deliberations proceeding these certainly appeared bogus. Garbage in garbage out as they say.

The jury is also out on Jesus.

Oh really? Try running that by the Pope.

[bush_cheney2004]

The available intelligence used in the deliberations proceeding these certainly appeared bogus. Garbage in garbage out as they say.

Correct...the garbage has been taken out. Ding dong...Saddam is dead.

Oh really? Try running that by the Pope.

The Pope of False Pretenses? LOL!

[eyeball]

I know it really means a lot to you so...go ahead and have the last word.

[bush_cheney2004]

I know it really means a lot to you so...go ahead and have the last word.

I already did.....toodles.

[Oleg Bach]

Correct...the garbage has been taken out. Ding dong...Saddam is dead.

The Pope of False Pretenses? LOL!

Run this post the Pope.. what about the thousand men who are in re-hab with no real support that are brain damaged? What about the benevolent American service men that are gathering up funds for Iraqi kids missing limbs...This whole mess did not end well - someone should at least wish an infection on Rumsfelt and Cheney - that at least a finger would rot and fall off - what a sad disgrace...FAILURE - stupid and evil...Why does America not take care of it's damaged vets - If the vets knew before they enlisted that their loyalty would not be matched by the loyality of the administrators they would never have enlisted and there would not have been a war ----suckers!

[bush_cheney2004]

Run this post the Pope.. what about the thousand men who are in re-hab with no real support that are brain damaged? What about the benevolent American service men that are gathering up funds for Iraqi kids missing limbs...This whole mess did not end well - someone should at least wish an infection on Rumsfelt and Cheney - that at least a finger would rot and fall off - what a sad disgrace...FAILURE - stupid and evil

Yes....America is a huge failure....over and over again...so I wonder why you keep watching? We all know that Canadian forces never experience such things...right?

...Why does America not take care of it's damaged vets - If the vets knew before they enlisted that their loyalty would not be matched by the loyality of the administrators they would never have enlisted and there would not have been a war ----suckers!

That's not true.....not all vets were looking for services in-kind, especially if one could end up dead.

[Moonlight Graham]

Regime change in Iraq was a matter of US Public Law as of November 1998.

H.R.4655

Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Enrolled Bill (Sent to President))

One Hundred Fifth Congress

of the

United States of America

Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 - Declares that it should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government.

http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/US/Legislation/ILA.htm

Very interesting. Obviously there is an difference in regime change, and military invasion + regime change.

I read the law you posted. It seems to support regime change in that the U.S. may help fund and assist democratic opposition parties in Iraq in replacing Saddam's regime. There is one part that mentions the U.S. military but it is slightly vague, maybe purposely so lol. But it clearly does not call for invasion as a means, but more or less a U.S.-backed coup. Wondering what you get out of the meaning of this law?

Anyways, quite interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Edited November 27, 2009 by Moonlight Graham

[bush_cheney2004]

...I read the law you posted. It seems to support regime change in that the U.S. may help fund and assist democratic opposition parties in Iraq in replacing Saddam's regime. There is one part that mentions the U.S. military but it is slightly vague, maybe purposely so lol. But it clearly does not call for invasion as a means, but more or less a U.S.-backed coup. Wondering what you get out of the meaning of this law?

Three points:

1) The Iraq Liberation Act specifically did not authorize or include language for existing military operations at the time ("illegal" no-fly zones, active special ops in "Kurdistan", UN embargo enforcement, etc.) by design so as not to limit the US president's options.

2) Iraq was attacked at over 100 sites by US/UK cruise missiles and strike aircraft in December 1998 (Operation Desert Fox) in the wake of the Act. President Clinton's speech reads on point with President Bush's prior to the 2003 invasion (i.e. WMDs, UN inspections, human rights, threats, yada, yada, yada).

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/12/16/transcripts/clinton.html

3) President Bush specifically sought and obtained a Congressional resolution for invasion / war in October 2002, referencing this Act and Public Law, but it was not the sole reason for the invasion.

[Oleg Bach]

Satan can not and will not cast out Satan - So how did America really expect to get rid of corruption in Afghanistan to begin with? Corrupt people always install other corrupt people - Why are they suddenly surprised when sainthood is not achieved by their lackies? Look at that installation called Sadam...he worked out fine for a while untill he rebeled - Any administration installed by the west will always rebel against it's master. It's called growing up and wanting your own empire.

[bush_cheney2004]

Satan can not and will not cast out Satan - So how did America really expect to get rid of corruption in Afghanistan to begin with? Corrupt people always install other corrupt people - Why are they suddenly surprised when sainthood is not achieved by their lackies?

Correct....there is "corruption" everywhere. Even the saints are corrupt.....such is the nature of power. But you have to work with Stalins to get things done.

Look at that installation called Sadam...he worked out fine for a while untill he rebeled - Any administration installed by the west will always rebel against it's master. It's called growing up and wanting your own empire.

Not really....he was always the lesser of two evils in the region for post Iranian Revolution affairs. So he had to be bitch slapped back into place.

[Oleg Bach]

Correct....there is "corruption" everywhere. Even the saints are corrupt.....such is the nature of power. But you have to work with Stalins to get things done.

Not really....he was always the lesser of two evils in the region for post Iranian Revolution affairs. So he had to be bitch slapped back into place.

Why is it that the bad ambitious guys want to all be a Stalin? Can't we get some leadership in their that want to be Santa? BC - You know I adore you and your nation..but you have to get over this "neccesary evil" approach..it's really tiresome and really does not work well - let the good prevail for a while...If you keep this up I will have to talk to the cosmos and insist that you be fired....with no compensational package....

[Oleg Bach]

BC - busy downsizing right about now - don't want to drop a new and very expensive air conditioner in the alley...might not be able to talk for a while..everything is changing due to the poor economy - even my family is busy putting the wagons in the proverbal circle...Hope you are doing well - keep the spirit up - and remember America - hope is your only true wealth - and citizens are your golden future..all that other stuff don't mean shit - love to you and yours...over and out - now back to work for me...