Gun Registry about to go bye bye!

Alta4ever · November 6, 2009

Dobbin is trying to spin his own Hyperbole as fact just ignore him.

jdobbin · November 6, 2009

Dobbin is trying to spin his own Hyperbole as fact just ignore him.

It is something you can't seem to do. I can help. There is an ignore button. Feel free to press it.

But a parting shot, I can easily seeing you supporting the end of the handgun registry and telling me later how brilliant the Tories were for doing so. I can see you lining up all the arguments to justify it and denying ever saying it was impossible that it was going to be dropped.

jdobbin · November 6, 2009

Which conservative MP's????

Rod Bruinooge for years has argued in his constituency meetings that gun registration was ineffective. And he didn't mean just for long guns.

Alta4ever · November 6, 2009

It is something you can't seem to do. I can help. There is an ignore button. Feel free to press it.

But a parting shot, I can easily seeing you supporting the end of the handgun registry and telling me later how brilliant the Tories were for doing so. I can see you lining up all the arguments to justify it and denying ever saying it was impossible that it was going to be dropped.

I have no problem with the handgun registry.

Another swing and a miss.

Shady · November 6, 2009

I'm glad the registry is finally being eliminated. It's a 2 billion dollar Liberal Party blunder that's survived much too long.

jdobbin · November 6, 2009

I'm glad the registry is finally being eliminated. It's a 2 billion dollar Liberal Party blunder that's survived much too long.

Next target for you... the handgun registry? Another waste of money?

jdobbin · November 6, 2009

I have no problem with the handgun registry.

Another swing and a miss.

But if the Tories end it, I'm sure you think it will be brilliant.

By the way, still see you can't ignore me.

Alta4ever · November 6, 2009

But if the Tories end it, I'm sure you think it will be brilliant.

By the way, still see you can't ignore me.

Just like you think the monsterous drop in the polls by the liberal party and Ignatieff is just brilliant.

noahbody · November 6, 2009

For things I observed at Conservative MPs meetings with constituents?

Well if many have been lobbying I'm sure you can find a citation or two.

Also, is travelling around to attend Conservative MPs meetings with constituents a hobby of yours or did you just admit you're a liberal party spy?

jdobbin · November 6, 2009

Well if many have been lobbying I'm sure you can find a citation or two.

Think I have given a number of citations including those from Van Loan that he thinks the registry is ineffective.

The argument they have made were about all guns, not just long guns.

Also, is travelling around to attend Conservative MPs meetings with constituents a hobby of yours or did you just admit you're a liberal party spy?

Boy, you really love the personalizing, don't you.

I was referring to all party election events where Tory MPs state their position although as well as other events where Tory MPs have made remark on things like the effectiveness of the registry.

I don't attend party only meetings for the Tories.

jdobbin · November 6, 2009

Just like you think the monsterous drop in the polls by the liberal party and Ignatieff is just brilliant.

Now you are just acting petulant and changing the subject.

Alta4ever · November 6, 2009

Now you are just acting petulant and changing the subject.

No more petulant then you have been nor did I change the subject from the Long gun registry to handgun registry.

jdobbin · November 6, 2009

No more petulant then you have been nor did I change the subject from the Long gun registry to handgun registry.

The registry is the registry and the Tories have been critical of it in general. There is no getting around that fact. It is the Tories who have said that the registry is a joke and no cop should think it useful. You seem to think that only means long guns. What do you think they mean by that?

Alta4ever · November 6, 2009

The registry is the registry and the Tories have been critical of it in general. There is no getting around that fact. It is the Tories who have said that the registry is a joke and no cop should think it useful. You seem to think that only means long guns. What do you think they mean by that?

I will spell it out for you when people talk about the "gun registry" they are refering to the long gun registry. They shorten it to "the" gun registry. I hear it all the time, the fight never has been about hand guns, and you are smart enough to know it.

jdobbin · November 6, 2009

I will spell it out for you when people talk about the "gun registry" they are refering to the long gun registry. They shorten it to "the" gun registry. I hear it all the time, the fight never has been about hand guns, and you are smart enough to know it.

The criticism is that the registry itself is useless. If the argument is that the police can't rely on one part of it, why do think any part of it is reliable?

It is a question that should be answered.

Do you think the police rely on the registry for handguns? If yes, why? And why is it useless for long guns?

Alta4ever · November 6, 2009

The criticism is that the registry itself is useless. If the argument is that the police can't rely on one part of it, why do think any part of it is reliable?

It is a question that should be answered.

Do you think the police rely on the registry for handguns? If yes, why? And why is it useless for long guns?

The critism was of the long gun registry, the bans, restrictions and registry on hand guns was around a lot longer and yet there was hardly a peep, yet and soon as the liberals introduced the expansive expensive long gun registry that punished farmers and hunters, then and only then did "the" gun registry ( the long gun registry) become an issue. You know this but choose to ignore it.

So why are trying to change the subject from the long gun registry to the hand gun registry (which no one but you is talking about)? Is it for partisan purposes?

Edited November 6, 2009 by Alta4ever

jdobbin · November 6, 2009

The critism was of the long gun registry, the bans, restrictions and registry on hand guns was around a lot longer and yet there was hardly a peep, yet and soon as the liberals introduced the expansive expensive long gun registry that punished farmers and hunters, then and only then did "the" gun registry ( the long gun registry) become an issue. You know this but choose to ignore it.

Afraid not. There has always been talk about the gun laws and registries.

So why are trying to change the subject from the long gun registry to the hand gun registry (which no one but you is talking about)? Is it for partisan purposes?

Are you trying to avoid the issue of the effectiveness of the registries for partisan reasons? Your party says the registry is ineffective. I never heard them claim it is only part of the registry that is ineffective.

Do you believe that handgun registry is an effective tool for police. And if so, why?

Wilber · November 6, 2009

If the argument has been the effectiveness of the registration, he can argue that the handguns are equally useless and a danger to police. Toss in more measures against gun use in a crime and I think a majority cushions him from long term problems.

Tom Flanagan has called it incremental conservatism. if the goal is to get rid of gun registration, pick it apart a bit at a time.

Or do you think this is completely beyond the realm of possibility?

He can argue all he wants but I do not think this would have popular support from a large majority of the public, including a huge number who opposed the botched long gun registry.

I really have mixed feelings about getting rid of the registry. I think something important may have been missed here because a mixture of incompetence, arrogance and dogma has stomped all over common sense and compromise. Instead of making law abiding gun owners part of the process, the instigators of the registry treated them like enemies and didn't care how much money they spent doing it. We are now seeing the backlash. This has become something like the abortion debate, we are past the possibility of a middle ground.

Alta4ever · November 6, 2009

Afraid not. There has always been talk about the gun laws and registries.

Are you trying to avoid the issue of the effectiveness of the registries for partisan reasons? Your party says the registry is ineffective. I never heard them claim it is only part of the registry that is ineffective.

Do you believe that handgun registry is an effective tool for police. And if so, why?

You seem to be trying to tie together unrelated talking points.

jdobbin · November 6, 2009

You seem to be trying to tie together unrelated talking points.

You seem to think they are completely unrelated. I think I have shown that if the Tory argument is that registries are useless, it is right to question what they think of the handgun registry and its usefulness.

jdobbin · November 6, 2009

He can argue all he wants but I do not think this would have popular support from a large majority of the public, including a huge number who opposed the botched long gun registry.

It is why I doubt it will be an election issue. Only with a majority can I see it happening.

Do it early and have four years to wait to face the electorate and I can see the Tories making the argument that handgun registration is ineffective and then put new laws on gun crime in place instead.

I really have mixed feelings about getting rid of the registry. I think something important may have been missed here because a mixture of incompetence, arrogance and dogma has stomped all over common sense and compromise. Instead of making law abiding gun owners part of the process, the instigators of the registry treated them like enemies and didn't care how much money they spent doing it. We are now seeing the backlash. This has become something like the abortion debate, we are past the possibility of a middle ground.

I have said from the beginning that I opposed the gun registry. By the way, that includes the handgun registry.

I have always believed the focus should be on the gun licences. My thoughts were that the gunowner should have the record on the guns they own and that the police could ask for that record in the course of their duties.

Alta4ever · November 6, 2009

You seem to think they are completely unrelated. I think I have shown that if the Tory argument is that registries are useless, it is right to question what they think of the handgun registry and its usefulness.

You have shown nothing, but innuendo and even in your own words "Why do I need prove for my own opinion on what he will do based on what Harper has said in the past?"

Wilber · November 6, 2009

It is why I doubt it will be an election issue. Only with a majority can I see it happening.

Do it early and have four years to wait to face the electorate and I can see the Tories making the argument that handgun registration is ineffective and then put new laws on gun crime in place instead.

I have said from the beginning that I opposed the gun registry. By the way, that includes the handgun registry.

I have always believed the focus should be on the gun licences. My thoughts were that the gunowner should have the record on the guns they own and that the police could ask for that record in the course of their duties.

It won't be an election issue because it is not an issue. A majority of Canadians would oppose it regardless of who has a majority.

Whatever system we try to use, it won't be successful if it doesn't have the support of those who must comply with it. I hope politicians have come to realize that this is something they will have to sell not impose if they want it to work.

jdobbin · November 6, 2009

You have shown nothing, but innuendo and even in your own words "Why do I need prove for my own opinion on what he will do based on what Harper has said in the past?"

I have shown that Harper doesn't think registration is effective.

One thing we do know is that Harper sometimes goes against his word. Income trusts and fixed election dates come to mind. However, you somehow now think that ending the registry entirely is impossible.

jdobbin · November 6, 2009

It won't be an election issue because it is not an issue. A majority of Canadians would oppose it regardless of who has a majority.

Quite possibly. But would enough oppose it to make it an issue next election? Don't know about that.

Whatever system we try to use, it won't be successful if it doesn't have the support of those who must comply with it. I hope politicians have come to realize that this is something they will have to sell not impose if they want it to work.

It is why I believe that the whole thing needs to be looked at for effectiveness.