The Ends of Religious Tolerance

[lictor616]

**************The following thread contains videos of a monstrous physical deformity that may cause frail liberals to experience nausea and fainting. Reader discretion is therefore advised.

Seriously, all of you sensitive pro-lifers and left wing egalitarians... don't say I didn't warn you**************

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Allow me to introduce Julianna Wetmore:

Julianna is the unfortunate sufferer of a rare genetic disease named Treacher Collins syndrome, a horrible conditions that affects formation of the craniofacial bone structure.

She has been dubbed: the "girl without a face", which conjures up images of anamorphic crash test dummies or the porcelain like opera masks that are so ubiquitous http://www.unitedmaskandparty.com/Masks/im..._white_mask.JPG.

But all of these are deceiving. Julianna, resembles a mangled squid or some mutant marine cephalopod. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...lius_(head).jpg

She lacks cheekbones, a working throat, jaw (upper and lower) and other important features.

Julianna is under constant administration of painkillers, and has already been subjected to 48 painful surgeries to "correct" her impossible condition.

After 5.8 million dollars of american tax payer money (paid via her father's membership in the NAVY), Julianna looks like this today:

http://julianawetmore.net/pictures.php?id=90

She is fed through a gastrostomy tube, and has gone through two tracheotomies in order to make it possible for her to breathe. She is mute... and speaks in sign language.

normal people are revolted by her, her fellow classmates are horrified of her.

And she gets to experience this atrocious life with normal intelligence...

Her parents... wouldn't you know it? yup evangelical christians.... They had ample warnings from their doctor, that their child would be born with a serious form of treacher collins... alas, they were too thoroughly brainwashed with jesus jargon to spare their own child (and themselves) and do the RIGHT thing and opt for abortion.

you can see the insane alice in wonderland rejection of reality on their picture captions on their family website...

http://julianawetmore.net/pictures.php

I used to think that this girl would be a poster child for the egalitarians.... the more I meditate on it.. the more I am convinced that she could actually be a martyr for eugenics and rational Darwinists everywhere...

Elimination of the genetically degenerate is the first requisite for the survival of a nation or people. To neglect this unavoidable duty is knowingly to break the inexorable law of nature that ordains the survival of the fittest. But our civilization by assuming the need to defend itself collectively and thanks to its medical breakthroughs, short circuited natural eugenics, and now foolishly entertain illusions about the "equality of man" and similar humanitarian slop.

From a genetic/biological standpoint, however, we people of the West have long been mad. We not only perversely and insanely reject the eugenics that are absolutely necessary for survival, but enthusiastically promote every dysgenic device and procedure, not only by our birthrates (which see the biggest families given to the dull elements of our society) but by selective breeding for equality (which of course can only mean uniform dilapidation).

Driven by cunning resident enemies, liberal intellectual and our own idiots and vain politicians, our Civilization became crazed with the Christians' frantic denial of reality, sullen hatred of science, logic and intelligence, and crazed doting on whatever is debased, diseased, deformed, and degenerate.

All species, by the very nature of heredity, produce waste products, a nation's health depends upon prompt excretion of its dregs and misfits. No one can ignore personal or societal hygiene for that matter with impunity.

The deranged Christian ascetics of the early centuries often pleased their sadistic god by immuring themselves in narrow cells in which they existed with the accumulating mass of their own excrement, but their lives were mercifully short. The same is true of a society that does not provide for the removal of its own degenerates

There is only one supreme law of life: the survival of the fittest, with its corollary, the elimation (or, through a hazardous compassion, subjugation) of the unfit.

The Athenian envoys at Melos stated an obvious truth:

"Of the gods we believe, and of men we know, that the strong do what they will, and the weak suffer what they must."

Edited October 24, 2009 by lictor616

[Michael Hardner]

I disagree.

Survival of the fittest is an ethic for beasts, not humans.

[Michael Hardner]

Further to this, there's no argument here. It's about what you value. You don't value the lives of the imperfect and there's nothing I can objectively say about that. I'm glad your ideas are fringe, though.

Edited October 24, 2009 by Michael Hardner

[lictor616]

I disagree.

Survival of the fittest is an ethic for beasts, not humans.

so you agree that Julianna's parents did the right thing in afflicting their own daughter, the taxpayers, the medical staff (who could be used perform more useful tasks) and the world... AND the parents themselves with needless log rolling and suffering..

spoken like a true bloodthirsty communist.

[lictor616]

Further to this, there's no argument here. It's about what you value. You don't value the lives of the imperfect and there's nothing I can objectively say about that. I'm glad your ideas are fringe, though.

the obvious argument here is obvious, I DO VALUE lives... Julianna's is not a life worth living by any stretch of the imagination... and my heart aches at her tragic plight... and think of all that could have been done if the resources allocated to her hopeless cause would have been diverted to other sick children with real prospects at a normal life?

the opposite of what you say is true... as usual.

Edited October 24, 2009 by lictor616

[Michael Hardner]

lictor,

so you agree that Julianna's parents did the right thing in afflicting their own daughter, the taxpayers, the medical staff (who could be used perform more useful tasks) and the world... AND the parents themselves with needless log rolling and suffering..

spoken like a true bloodthirsty communist.

Again, no one can win with you.

The exact OPPOSITE argument is used in trying to portray the Democrats as pushing for 'death panels' that will put the weak and elderly to death.

You seem to be the communist here, crying for taxpayers to pull the plug for the greater good.

[Michael Hardner]

lictor,

the obvious argument here is obvious, I DO VALUE lives... Julianna's is not a life worth living by any stretch of the imagination... and my heart aches at her tragic plight... and think of all that could have been done if the resources allocated to her hopeless cause would have been diverted to other sick children with real prospects at a normal life?

the opposite of what you say is true... as usual.

Perhaps Obama will appoint you the head of your local death council, young politburo member. Then you will be able to decide how the supreme collective should deal with the sick and the weak and unattractive, as you yourself shall judge them.

All hail lictor !

[lictor616]

lictor,

Perhaps Obama will appoint you the head of your local death council, young politburo member. Then you will be able to decide how the supreme collective should deal with the sick and the weak and unattractive, as you yourself shall judge them.

All hail lictor !

no Obama, is himself a Christian (a weird variety of it... liberation black supremacist theology), said numerous times that while he understand a woman's right to choose, that "everyone has a god given right to life"... presumably even poor Julianna here.

Communist Commissars would usually have as their first mandate, the ruthless extermination of anyone who wasn,t 100% communist fanatic.. these tended to be the most intelligent, vigilant, brave human stock...

again the opposite is true.

[Guest American Woman]

the obvious argument here is obvious, I DO VALUE lives... Julianna's is not a life worth living by any stretch of the imagination... and my heart aches at her tragic plight... and think of all that could have been done if the resources allocated to her hopeless cause would have been diverted to other sick children with real prospects at a normal life?

I happen to agree with you. It's why I support Latimer. He didn't want his daughter to live a life of pain; a life most would consider not worth living.

But I'm not sure what you're getting at with this thread. You think the parents made the wrong decision, but it's a free world. They had the right to bring her to life. What's wrong is that people are tying to take away freedoms; the right to decide otherwise.

But again, for the sake of clarification, you're not suggesting forced abortions, are you?

[lictor616]

I happen to agree with you. It's why I support Latimer. He didn't want his daughter to live a life of pain; a life most would consider not worth living.

But I'm not sure what you're getting at with this thread. You think the parents made the wrong decision, but it's a free world. They had the right to bring her to life. What's wrong is that people are tying to take away freedoms; the right to decide otherwise.

But again, for the sake of clarification, you're not suggesting forced abortions, are you?

I'm suggesting we stop respecting religion and deal away with political correctness.

These kinds of situations can only happen to minds that have been blighted and crippled by the nonsensical cant of modern liberalism and egalitarian brainwashing.

our strange toleration for these death cults is what's at fault here.

Edited October 24, 2009 by lictor616

[Pliny]

no Obama, is himself a Christian (a weird variety of it... liberation black supremacist theology), said numerous times that while he understand a woman's right to choose, that "everyone has a god given right to life"... presumably even poor Julianna here.

Communist Commissars would usually have as their first mandate, the ruthless extermination of anyone who wasn,t 100% communist fanatic.. these tended to be the most intelligent, vigilant, brave human stock...

again the opposite is true.

The first mandate of Communist Commissars is the ruthless extermination of all who wish to be Communist Commissars.

I can't say I disagree with you entirely on your point of view. We kill animals out of compassion.

The problem I have with your position is that it isn't your decision whether Juliana lives or dies nor is it the States decision.

Once again American Woman has a similar view to mine. I don't know how that happens, politically we are have nothing in common. The problem with the Latimer case is that it became political.

[Pliny]

I disagree.

Survival of the fittest is an ethic for beasts, not humans.

We do do our best to rise above that concept - at times we are successful.

[charter.rights]

I disagree.

Survival of the fittest is an ethic for beasts, not humans.

Further to this. Jesus was a weakling. If Darwin's theory was correct he wouldn't have influenced the world in the way that he did.

[Mr.Canada]

the obvious argument here is obvious, I DO VALUE lives... Julianna's is not a life worth living by any stretch of the imagination... and my heart aches at her tragic plight... and think of all that could have been done if the resources allocated to her hopeless cause would have been diverted to other sick children with real prospects at a normal life?

the opposite of what you say is true... as usual.

I see. So in your pov, the government should decide which babies to abort and which to keep. I'm sorry but I don't think the government has any right to do such things. We, as taxpayers, decide that we want government to run certain things which we fund collectively including healthcare. The cost of care is irrelevant in Canada. If someone needs care, they get it no questions asked.

Bottom line is the government doesn't have the right to snatch would be mothers and abort their babies for any reason.

What's next? Aborting urban minority babies because they may kill someone or deal drugs and lead to many tragic events throughout their lives? Of coarse not. If it isn't ok for one it isn't ok for another. All people must be treated equally, this isn't a totalitarian regime we live under here.

[lictor616]

I see. So in your pov, the government should decide which babies to abort and which to keep. I'm sorry but I don't think the government has any right to do such things. We, as taxpayers, decide that we want government to run certain things which we fund collectively including healthcare. The cost of care is irrelevant in Canada. If someone needs care, they get it no questions asked.

Bottom line is the government doesn't have the right to snatch would be mothers and abort their babies for any reason.

What's next? Aborting urban minority babies because they may kill someone or deal drugs and lead to many tragic events throughout their lives? Of coarse not. If it isn't ok for one it isn't ok for another. All people must be treated equally, this isn't a totalitarian regime we live under here.

snip----

lictor616

Yesterday, 04:35 PM

Post #10

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QUOTE (American Woman @ Oct 24 2009, 03:43 PM)

I happen to agree with you. It's why I support Latimer. He didn't want his daughter to live a life of pain; a life most would consider not worth living.

But I'm not sure what you're getting at with this thread. You think the parents made the wrong decision, but it's a free world. They had the right to bring her to life. What's wrong is that people are tying to take away freedoms; the right to decide otherwise.

But again, for the sake of clarification, you're not suggesting forced abortions, are you?

"I'm suggesting we stop respecting religion and deal away with political correctness.

These kinds of situations can only happen to minds that have been blighted and crippled by the nonsensical cant of modern liberalism and egalitarian brainwashing.

our strange toleration for these death cults is what's at fault here. "

[lictor616]

Further to this. Jesus was a weakling. If Darwin's theory was correct he wouldn't have influenced the world in the way that he did.

Jesus also never existed... another swing and miss from charter...

[Michael Hardner]

"I'm suggesting we stop respecting religion and deal away with political correctness.

This is also the first time that the meaning of political correctness was stretched to include mercy.

[lictor616]

This is also the first time that the meaning of political correctness was stretched to include mercy.

mercy in this case would be the OPPOSITE of what you're alluding to... and actually letting Julianna go peacefully and with dignity.

once again... you're 180 degrees in the wrong direction... the contrary of what you say is true.

[Michael Hardner]

Lictor,

But isn't your motivation to save a buck for the taxpayer as you said above ? How does mercy figure into that savings plan ?

[M.Dancer]

so you agree that Julianna's parents did the right thing in afflicting their own daughter,

They didn't afflict her.

Your argument is pointless and quite frankly I could not care less about what your opinion is about another person's life and freedoms.

[lictor616]

They didn't afflict her.

Your argument is pointless and quite frankly I could not care less about what your opinion is about another person's life and freedoms.

THEN DON'T POST SILLY!

if you don't agree with the topic and have nothing substantive to say ... then why dirty another comment slot? stay quiet !

they did afflict her! they allowed their sickly and irremediably handicapped child to live a life utterly without dignity or happiness.

if you see a deer that has just been hit by car, writhing in agony and pain on the ground... with no hope of living a normal life, do you simply maintain that "it's that animal'S life and freedom I have no right to intervene"... or do you mercifully put a bullet in its head?

have you no pity?

[lictor616]

Lictor,

But isn't your motivation to save a buck for the taxpayer as you said above ? How does mercy figure into that savings plan ?

I also said above that my heart ached at the thought of her plight and suffering...

does it have to be for one reason only? DO I have to choose between doing the right thing and "putting an unfortunate child out of its misery" OR "saving money" to put to better use?

Why can't it be for both reasons?

[Shwa]

"There is only one supreme law of life: the survival of the fittest, with its corollary, the elimation (or, through a hazardous compassion, subjugation) of the unfit."

I dunno dude, you seem to have fallen on a slipperly slope here by misapplying the leading theories of evolution which have been vastly reconfigured since the old fish to modern man diagram we are so familiar with. Thing of the past. There is no orderly march forward as a species and never has been. And now you are bogged down in defending mythos.

Survival is all about environment and adaptations to that environment. In our present environment, we have medical machinery of all kinds to help us breath, beat our hearts, clean our kidneys, act as prosthetics, etc. If a person can survive in this environment they are "fit" enough to qualify. Kind of like early humankind used only certain rocks to make tooks because the other stuff wasn't up to the task. Consider our machines in the same light you would consider tools. They are made to modify our environment into things like, you know, agriculture, civilization, etc.

Our present environment also includes a small little thing called "medical insurance" and thus, if this person has some or access to some that will help her run her machines and she qualifies to use it, then she is "fit" enough for our environment.

So really, the only environment she is not "fit" to live in, is one you have created with your mythos. This is a typical problem and is solvable with a bit of intellectual shifting. Since her appearance and reports of her surgeries and pain have touched a nerve with you, you have mistakenly attributed your weakness for hers. You think she is weak because you would not be able to live with her afflications when in fact she is strong to survive in our modern environment whereas you would - I am guessing - likely kill yourself. In this scenario 'survival of the fittest' works perfectly fine.

[Michael Hardner]

lictor,

I also said above that my heart ached at the thought of her plight and suffering...

does it have to be for one reason only? DO I have to choose between doing the right thing and "putting an unfortunate child out of its misery" OR "saving money" to put to better use?

Why can't it be for both reasons?

It's just that it sounds odd for you to complain about the waste of taxpayer's money that this person is costing you in a rather cutting and aggressive manner, then to pull at our heartstrings. I suppose that I'm obliged to give you the benefit of the doubt here ( I won't post to you if I thought you were a monster ) but it doesn't sit right.

[lictor616]

lictor,

It's just that it sounds odd for you to complain about the waste of taxpayer's money that this person is costing you in a rather cutting and aggressive manner, then to pull at our heartstrings. I suppose that I'm obliged to give you the benefit of the doubt here ( I won't post to you if I thought you were a monster ) but it doesn't sit right.

what doesn't sit right? that I think it pitiable that heartless people are capable of bringing into the world unfortunate creatures like Julianna, who will never taste food, feel genuine love, feel included, be able to produce progeny? SHe will have to go through countless painful and useless surgeries, and under constant doses of hard medication to keep her going...

really look at her! Can you really be so blind as to not see that Julianna is hopeless? Have some mercy... let her have dignity.