Guest TrueMetis Posted October 29, 2009 Report Posted October 29, 2009 yeah like the Spartans who gathered in battle in Thermopylae... actually the real cowards are the ones who think that death is the worst thing that can happen to a person... actually, only the supremely brave can face death knowingly... Knowing what? Your dead it's over. No heaven, no hell your rot in the ground or you have you body ashed. It's like being afraid of the dark only for 4 year olds. Quote
Melanie_ Posted October 29, 2009 Report Posted October 29, 2009 um, your operating under the delusion that she had something to do with choosing to live... she didn't choose anything... this situation was totally artificial and foisted on her. and I,d wager that soon, when she finally understands the plight that she's in, that she'd quickly end herself and put everything to rights. No, she hasn't chosen to live. She may very well choose to die someday, or she may continue on with her life. It will be her choice then; right now, as her father says in the video, it is their choice, and it is a hard burden to bear. But your rationale is that she is offensive for you to look at, so she should die. Surprisingly enough, this isn't about you. Quote For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others. Nelson Mandela
lictor616 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Report Posted October 29, 2009 There. Thats what I really wanted to say, but somehow I use too many words. Thanks, Black Dog! whatabout the a-holes who inflicted her appalling circumstances on Julianna? what about her parents? how do you feel the same homicidal hatred about them? Quote -Magna Europa Est Patria Nostra-
Guest American Woman Posted October 29, 2009 Report Posted October 29, 2009 Right here, death is the cowards way out. That doesn't answer my question, does it? Nice of you to decide that someone who would chose not to live with all of her afflictions is a coward, though. Or should I say easy for you to decide that someone who would chose not to live with all of her afflictions is a coward? Quote
M.Dancer Posted October 29, 2009 Report Posted October 29, 2009 only the supremely stupid romanticize death....or just the very young and stupid... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
lictor616 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Report Posted October 29, 2009 Knowing what? Your dead it's over. No heaven, no hell your rot in the ground or you have you body ashed. It's like being afraid of the dark only for 4 year olds. exactly so what's the big deal? you're the one saying that death is worse then suffering. Quote -Magna Europa Est Patria Nostra-
Guest TrueMetis Posted October 29, 2009 Report Posted October 29, 2009 That doesn't answer my question, does it? Nice of you to decide that someone who would chose not to live with all of her afflictions is a coward, though. Or should I say easy for you to decide that someone who would chose not to live with all of her afflictions is a coward? How does it not answer your question between death and living like she does I would live like she does. And death is the cowards way out, especially if your religious. Quote
Guest TrueMetis Posted October 29, 2009 Report Posted October 29, 2009 exactly so what's the big deal? you're the one saying that death is worse then suffering. No I'm not. I'm saying opportunity, which is something you have when you are alive, is better than no opportunity, which is something you have when your dead. Quote
lictor616 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Report Posted October 29, 2009 How does it not answer your question between death and living like she does I would live like she does. And death is the cowards way out, especially if your religious. obviously you've never heard of what a MARTYR IS... and how monumentally important they tend to be for the religious flocks. sometimes living is the cowards way out... and that is certainly the case here with Julianna. Quote -Magna Europa Est Patria Nostra-
Guest TrueMetis Posted October 29, 2009 Report Posted October 29, 2009 obviously you've never heard of what a MARTYR IS... and how monumentally important they tend to be for the religious flocks. sometimes living is the cowards way out... and that is certainly the case here with Julianna. I truly don't understand your twisted logic, how about you explain how in her case living is the cowards way out? Quote
Guest American Woman Posted October 29, 2009 Report Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) How does it not answer your question between death and living like she does I would live like she does. And death is the cowards way out, especially if your religious. I'm not "religious." And I'm not judgmental of people who actually has to live with circumstances I'll never know/experience, either. But in spite of your bravado, if push came to shove, I'm not sure you'd live up to your answer. Edited October 29, 2009 by American Woman Quote
lictor616 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Report Posted October 29, 2009 No I'm not. I'm saying opportunity, which is something you have when you are alive, is better than no opportunity, which is something you have when your dead. are you serious? have you watched the clip? AND WHAT what opportunity does Julianna have... pray tell... the opportunity of being the never ending source of disgust and fright to millions of complete strangers.. the opportunity to have the media treat her like a mobile freakshow? the opportunity of never tasting food, never knowning one's true love... never being able to have friends (except fake opportunistic guilt coopting ones)... the opportunity to feel exquisite physical pain for the rest of one's life? these are Julianna's opportunities? unbelievable... how heartless can one be? Quote -Magna Europa Est Patria Nostra-
Melanie_ Posted October 29, 2009 Report Posted October 29, 2009 I'm curious. If you could wake up in the morning looking like her, with all of her limitations, with all of her pain, with her future surgeries, with all the uncertainties the future holds for her, along with all the certainties that it holds .... or you could chose not to wake up ... which would you choose? I know what I would chose and I think I can safely say I don't know anyone who would chose any differently. I don't know. Truthfully, I don't know. I don't live her life, and I am thankful for that. Would I choose the life I have over hers? Absolutely. She would probably choose a different life for herself, too, if she could. But it is her life, and there seems to be love and joy in it, along with the pain and uncertainty. I've been reading her family's blog, and it is full of hope. Juliana Wetmore Through it all Juliana is a loving, friendly, happy, creative, and playful little girl.So far she has accepted the way she looks without making a problem of it. She has remarkable self-esteem and self-confidence. Once Juliana and Kendra were somewhere with other children around. One child was calling attention to Juliana and making rude comments. Kendra remarked to the group, "She's just another kid." She was so precious at her kindergarten graduation. She marched in with all of the kindergarteners. They all sang a couple of songs together. And she walked across the bridge and shook hands with the principal when they announced her name. Thom and I were so proud of her. Quote For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others. Nelson Mandela
lictor616 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Report Posted October 29, 2009 I truly don't understand your twisted logic, how about you explain how in her case living is the cowards way out? what twisted logic? can you read? there wasn't much in the way of ambiguities in what I wrote... you said that death was cowardly and ill looked upon by the religious.... which isn't always true... for example: a martyr: "In the context of church history, from the time of the persecution of early Christians in the Roman Empire, being a martyr indicates a person who is killed for maintaining a religious belief, knowing that this will almost certainly result in imminent death. " martyrs almost always have very positive significance for religionists... hence showing the idiocy in your claim that to choose death is "cowardly". it isn't always. Quote -Magna Europa Est Patria Nostra-
Guest TrueMetis Posted October 29, 2009 Report Posted October 29, 2009 I'm not "religious." And I'm not judgmental of people who actually has to live with circumstances I'll never know/experience, either. But since you are, if push came to shove, I'm also not sure you've live up to your answer. Fair enough. are you serious? have you watched the clip? AND WHAT what opportunity does Julianna have... pray tell... the opportunity of being the never ending source of disgust and fright to millions of complete strangers.. the opportunity to have the media treat her like a mobile freakshow? the opportunity of never tasting food, never knowning one's true love... never being able to have friends (except fake opportunistic guilt coopting ones)... the opportunity to feel exquisite physical pain for the rest of one's life? these are Julianna's opportunities? unbelievable... how heartless can one be? Well your a ray of fucking sunshine. There are always opputunities for those willing to go for them. She's young and who knows maybe she'll turn out to be a genius like Hawking or maybe she just turn out average either way she's got the chance. Also as hard as it may be to understand not everyone judges by outside appearance alone. Quote
lictor616 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Report Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) Well your a ray of fucking sunshine. There are always opputunities for those willing to go for them. She's young and who knows maybe she'll turn out to be a genius like Hawking or maybe she just turn out average either way she's got the chance.Also as hard as it may be to understand not everyone judges by outside appearance alone. ahaahhaahah well aren't YOU the fircracker!!! Yeah of course! now I see it... if you put your mind to it ... ANYTHING can happen... if Julianna has the right attitude, she'll may end up on the cover of Maxim magazine, vogue... who knows right! yeah I'm sure that with the right positive attitude, she'll think herself a new face and cure cancer in the meantime... if that isn't cruel and foolish optimism, I don't know what is Edited October 29, 2009 by lictor616 Quote -Magna Europa Est Patria Nostra-
Guest TrueMetis Posted October 29, 2009 Report Posted October 29, 2009 what twisted logic? can you read? there wasn't much in the way of ambiguities in what I wrote... you said that death was cowardly and ill looked upon by the religious.... which isn't always true... for example: a martyr: "In the context of church history, from the time of the persecution of early Christians in the Roman Empire, being a martyr indicates a person who is killed for maintaining a religious belief, knowing that this will almost certainly result in imminent death. " martyrs almost always have very positive significance for religionists... hence showing the idiocy in your claim that to choose death is "cowardly". it isn't always. I never said that death was "ill looked upon" I said it is easier to kill yourself if your religious. If your religous you believe you get to go to happy fun land in the sky. If I believed that bullshit it would be much easier to die for what I believed. And this doesn't explain how in this case somehow living is the cowards way out. Quote
Melanie_ Posted October 29, 2009 Report Posted October 29, 2009 ahaahhaahah well aren't YOU the fircracker!!! Yeah of course! now I see it... if you put your mind to it ... ANYTHING can happen... if Julianna has the right attitude, she'll may end up on the cover of Maxim magazine, vogue... who knows right! yeah I'm sure that with the right positive attitude, she'll think herself a new face and cure cancer in the meantime... if that isn't cruel and foolish optimism, I don't know what is And if she doesn't end up on the cover of Vogue or Maxim, her life isn't worth living? Quote For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others. Nelson Mandela
Guest American Woman Posted October 29, 2009 Report Posted October 29, 2009 I don't know. Truthfully, I don't know. Is it that you don't know, or it's difficult for you to say/admit? Think about it. Really think about it, and I think you know what you would chose. I don't live her life, and I am thankful for that. Would I choose the life I have over hers? Absolutely. She would probably choose a different life for herself, too, if she could. "Probably?" I think that would be about as strong an "absolutely" as it gets. But it is her life, and there seems to be love and joy in it, along with the pain and uncertainty. I've been reading her family's blog, and it is full of hope. Her family may be full of hope, but she's the one who has to live her life, and life is difficult enough for those who are just dealing with the normal struggles, the normal ups and downs of life. But this child is living a life of pain, and when she's older than five, when she is old enough to realize what she is missing and sees firsthand how cruel this world can be, will love make up for it? Will the "joy" overpower the physical and emotional pain? Will she have the strength to deal with it? And will she do more than survive ... will she thrive? I love my daughters whole heatedly. They are my world. But if they were in an accident that left them in the same condition/situoation this child is in, I would not use extraordinary means to keep them alive. I would not do that to them. Quote
M.Dancer Posted October 29, 2009 Report Posted October 29, 2009 Children have a remarkable ability to love and be happy regardless of their circumstances. I can't say she will always be able to love or be happy; I couldn't say that about anybody. But the value of her life here and now is the capacity to love and be loved.... Those who for their own twisted depraved ideology feel she would be better off dead despite the childs own feelings, or in spite of them, do not have the capacity to love and consequently their own value is nothing and truly, they would be better off dead than having to endure a world where horribly deformed children are loved uinconditionally. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Guest TrueMetis Posted October 29, 2009 Report Posted October 29, 2009 ahaahhaahah well aren't YOU the fircracker!!! Yeah of course! now I see it... if you put your mind to it ... ANYTHING can happen... if Julianna has the right attitude, she'll may end up on the cover of Maxim magazine, vogue... who knows right! yeah I'm sure that with the right positive attitude, she'll think herself a new face and cure cancer in the meantime... if that isn't cruel and foolish optimism, I don't know what is How the fuck did you get that out of what I wrote? Some of the most incredible people in the world are deformed either mentally or physically. Yet they get to do stuff most people can only dream of. Quote
lictor616 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Report Posted October 29, 2009 I don't know. Truthfully, I don't know. I don't live her life, and I am thankful for that. Would I choose the life I have over hers? Absolutely. She would probably choose a different life for herself, too, if she could. But it is her life, and there seems to be love and joy in it, along with the pain and uncertainty. I've been reading her family's blog, and it is full of hope.Juliana Wetmore yeah... about that, I would urge all to read the journal of that hapless mother and especially her nurse.. It's almost darkly humorous... A great feature of the website is a series of captioned images of Juliana that one would have to assume were just obvious sarcasm... look at this one... captioned "dainty flower" of all things... http://www.julianawetmore.net/pictures.php?id=90 the journals are of course predictably peppered with nonsense about blessings of the lord... and how Juliana is, of course, God's Gift. they actually thank god for making Julianna that way... and that should tell you all about what really went wrong in this situation Quote -Magna Europa Est Patria Nostra-
M.Dancer Posted October 29, 2009 Report Posted October 29, 2009 they actually thank god for making Julianna that way... Sounds like the martyrs you idolize...thankiung god for the opportunity to test the strength of their faith as their skin is peeled of their backs like a bloody banana... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
lictor616 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Report Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) How the fuck did you get that out of what I wrote? Some of the most incredible people in the world are deformed either mentally or physically. Yet they get to do stuff most people can only dream of. what who? where? huh? where are we? who is this? are you ok? you seem to have a hard time understanding words that are said to you... Edited October 29, 2009 by lictor616 Quote -Magna Europa Est Patria Nostra-
lictor616 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Report Posted October 29, 2009 Sounds like the martyrs you idolize...thankiung god for the opportunity to test the strength of their faith as their skin is peeled of their backs like a bloody banana... I never said I admired any religious martyrs... Spartans certainly weren't martyred for their beliefs... they we upright a noble sons of Europe. they fought with the heroism of our Great civilization. Quote -Magna Europa Est Patria Nostra-
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