Canadian Identity: un-American

[Guest American Woman]

Likewise, my dear, for you completely missed the very simple point:

"Simple" would be the key word. So no, I missed nothing.

It isn't approval being sought, it's difficulty being avoided.

So how do you think Australians avoid similar "difficulties?" And Brits? And Irish? And Scots? And any other 'anglo English speaking person,' since that's what you seem to be on about, even though there are plenty of Canadians and Americans who wouldn't fit that stereotype; because it seems to be a uniquely Canadian thing to 'wear the flag' to *cough cough* "avoid difficulties."

Perhaps you did meet a pro-American individual in Amsterdam; good for you.

Yes, good for me. I just happened to meet the one pro-American individual in Amsterdam, while of course the masses were showering Canadians with love.

However, I'd venture to say, from my experiences across every continent (save for Antarctica), that he was a relative rarity.

Funny, from my experiences, while there are too many ignoramuses who prejudge, there are many more people who love Americans, first and foremost in some instances, so sometimes my being identified as such would actually attract people to me. And since I've recently booked a trip to Antarctica, I'll let you know how the penguins feel .....

Many are slightly hostile to Americans, and it's rather bothersome to have to repeatedly explain to people - especially when language barriers are involved - that, no, you are not one, which they invariably assume you are at first glance and sound. The flag doesn't justify their presumptuous attitude, nor is it an absolute necessity; it merely makes things easier. I hope that isn't too hard for you to grasp.

Yes, I already "grasped" that you want to take the "easy way out." That it has nothing to do with accepting you personally, that it's all about the flag. I would have thought that would have been apparent from my previous posts.

Plus, from Hong Kong to Santiago, Glasgow to Hobart, I've got a lot of random, friendly waves, and - what shock! - I like that.

Brace yourself.

I, too, have been privy to a lot of random, friendly waves. And - what a shock! - I didn't have a Maple Leaf displayed anywhere. Who would have thunk, eh?

Edited November 7, 2009 by American Woman

[g_bambino]

So how do you think Australians avoid similar "difficulties?" And Brits? And Irish? And Scots? And any other 'anglo English speaking person,' since that's what you seem to be on about, even though there are plenty of Canadians and Americans who wouldn't fit that stereotype; because it seems to be a uniquely Canadian thing to 'wear the flag' to *cough cough* "avoid difficulties."

Er, yes, that's right; Canadians and Americans wouldn't fit the same stereotype that Scots, Irish, Aussies, and others have to deal with. I'm not sure if you want some kind of congratulations for noticing that or not; I thought it was pretty damn obvious, given the quite audible distinction in the way the two groups speak.

It seems you're ignorant to the fact, though, that Australians, New Zealanders, and South Africans do indeed wear flags - or other national identifiers - when abroad, because they get tired of continuously being mistaken for Brits and having to explain otherwise. I've also seen Swedes and Norwegians with flags on their packs; though I'm not familiar with their reasoning for doing so. Perhaps it's one of the myriad of other purposes the flags serve, like helping to identify you to fellow countrymen (such as the guy who approached me in Harajuku to talk about home, having seen the flag on my bag next to me on the bench I was sitting on).

But, its becoming evident that this exercise is akin to debating with a brick; you, of course, know better than I why I do things.

[c/e]

Edited November 7, 2009 by g_bambino

[Guest American Woman]

Er, yes, that's right; Canadians and Americans wouldn't fit the same stereotype that Scots, Irish, Aussies, and others have to deal with. I'm not sure if you want some kind of congratulations for noticing that or not; I thought it was pretty damn obvious, given the quite audible distinction in the way the two groups speak.

Obvious to English speaking groups, as I already pointed out. Not so obvious to nationalities that don't speak English as a first language. I've already pointed this out, along with the fact that I've not only been mistaken for Canadian, but also for British, German, and Scandinavian.

It seems you're ignorant to the fact, though, that Australians, New Zealanders, and South Africans do indeed wear flags - or other national identifiers - when abroad, because they get tired of continuously being mistaken for Brits and having to explain otherwise.

I'm "ignorant" of that "fact" because I've never seen Australians, New Zealanders, or South American sporting patches to identify themselves.

I've also seen Swedes and Norwegians with flags on their packs; though I'm not familiar with their reasoning for doing so. Perhaps it's one of the myriad of other purposes the flags serve, like helping to identify you to fellow countrymen (such as the guy who approached me in Harajuku to talk about home, having seen the flag on my bag next to me on the bench I was sitting on).

Perhaps that is why some other nationalities do it, but it's CANADIANS who claim to wear it to distinguish themselves from Americans. You yourself confirmed it. Now you're trying to make it about something else?

But, its becoming evident that this exercise is akin to debating with a brick;

Ohhhhh, now the insults start.

you, of course, know better than I why I do things.

I know why you SAID you do things. So back at'cha. You're the one who said it makes traveling easier, and gets you random waves. (still laughing at that). But perhaps if I put it differently, you will be able to see how ridiculous it is:

As we know, many view Islam negatively these days, and some Muslims are being treated with (to use your words) slight hostility. Now I ask you: if you were a Christian Arab-looking kind of person, would you travel with a cross on your backpack to distinguish yourself from Muslims-- Would you do that to "make it easier" for you when you run into ignorant anti-Muslim people in your travels?

Because quite frankly, I think that would be ludicrous, yet it's no different from what you do.

[g_bambino]

As we know, many view Islam negatively these days, and some Muslims are being treated with (to use your words) slight hostility. Now I ask you: if you were a Christian Arab-looking kind of person, would you travel with a cross on your backpack to distinguish yourself from Muslims-- Would you do that to "make it easier" for you when you run into ignorant anti-Muslim people in your travels?

Maybe. It would depend on how often I got mistaken for a Muslim and harangued as a consequence. People do actually wear crosses, you know; sometimes quite prominently.

I know why you SAID you do things. You're the one who said it makes traveling easier, and gets you random waves.

Yes, and you're telling me that's wrong; I really do things because of why you said I do them.

[sp]

Edited November 7, 2009 by g_bambino

[Guest American Woman]

Maybe. It would depend on how often I got mistaken for a Muslim and harangued as a consequence. People do actually wear crosses, you know; sometimes quite prominently.

Yes, I realize that people wear crosses, but they always have, and it's not to distinguish themselves from Muslims. So even though they wear them, I have to say, I've yet to see them prominently displayed on someone's backpack, and I can't imagine that there are Arab-looking Christians sporting them on their backpacks for the reason of "making traveling easier." If you would do it, if you would put a cross on your backpack for that reason, so be it. As I said, we all have different needs.

Yes, and you're telling me that's wrong; I really do things because of why you said I do them.

I seriously have no idea where you are coming from. I've been responding to what you've said; I assume you do things for the reasons you said you do. If not, if you say you do it for one reason but really do it for another, look to yourself as the problem. Again, back at'cha.

Edited November 7, 2009 by American Woman

[g_bambino]

I seriously have no idea where you are coming from. I've been responding to what you've said; I assume you do things for the reasons you said you do. If not, if you say you do it for one reason but really do it for another, look to yourself as the problem.

It's not too surprising that you don't get where I'm coming from; you don't seem to want to. You see, to what I say, you only respond in the negative and contrary; I explain why I do things, you reply by telling me those reasons are laughable and pathetic, and then proceed to enlighten me on the truth: I want the "easy way out", "instant approval". So, no matter how many times I tell you you're wrong, and show you why, and expect that you might just believe me when I say why I do something, you insist that you know better. Well, I guess it's your chip to bear.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Canadians are indeed un-American. We have our own nation and they have theirs. We are different from them and have no desire to be like them.

[Smallc]

We do like their TV shows though, and that's fine with me. There are no two countris that are more alike. There are still many differences though, from our governing system to our attitude on the issues.

[whowhere]

1774: King George III was on the throne; US independence was declared 1776.

So you are denying Ontario was an open field prior to US independence? You are denying Ontario was settled by American Monarch Lovers? I suggest you evaluate how Canada was established as Upper (Ontario) and Lower (Quebec) Canada who didn't want to be apart American Independence. Are you denying that the British Monarch defended Canada from the US In 1812 by sending in British Forces? Are you denying the British Monarch Brought in Millions of Settlers after 1837 to balance out the rebellion of Quebec who was moving towards succession? Contrary to what the unruly and ungrateful Immigrant populations of Canada want to think about the Monarch and its role to Canada they were in fact pivotal to what is Canada today. Canada is because of the British Monarch. Canada is not the Country it is today because of democracy or a fight for independence as done in the US. Canada had its chance to embrace democracy in 1982 but chose to the path of whoredom and become an abomination to judeo christian doctrine and fly in the face of Roman principals of exploiting others for the benefit Romans. Instead what we have is Canadian system of selling out its people so a narrow few can enjoy lives at the expense of future generations of Canada. How has Canada become a more democratic and wealthier Country since the 1982 Constitution. Canada hasn't and its because of Conservative Corruption.

1948: King George VI was on the throne; Newfoundland joined Canada 1949.

And somehow, still, you think people take you seriously.

So you are denying the fact that Nfld did not have a majority referendum to join Canada and was joined to Canada because of the British Monarch? I see your type. As long as you get out of Canada what you want to hell with the future of Canada and its real heritage prior to 1982.

I suspect you are one of those unruly immigrants or more accurately a cowardly refugee who fled from a fight and now have come to Canada to make Canada into the image you want. Good luck with that. If immigrants really want to contribute to the betterment of Canada, get rid of the conservatives.

[bush_cheney2004]

....As a side note. The first time I was in Amsterdam, I was on a tour of some place or other, and the proprietor told us how nice it was to have a group of Americans visit. "How do I know you're Americans? he said. "Because you don't have a giant Maple Leaf on your backpacks."*

He would also know when counting the tips.

[whowhere]

So in other words, you don't want to take the time for people to get to know you; you need the help of a patch that will evidently earn you the person's instant approval. And without it, without the person even knowing you personally, they would have an instant dislike, not because of who you are, but because of what they think you might be.

That says more about the people doing the judging than it does about Americans; and quite frankly, it says something about you, too.

http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/custom.html?year=2009&country=1&cols=3&df=1&hol=1

US Holidays and Observances:

Jan 1 New Year's Day

Jan 19 Martin Luther King Day

Feb 16 Presidents' Day

May 25 Memorial Day

Jul 3 'Independence Day' observed

Jul 4 Independence Day

Sep 7 Labor Day

Oct 12 Columbus Day (Most regions)

Nov 11 Veterans Day

Nov 26 Thanksgiving Day

Dec 25 Christmas Day

According to this site the US has ten stat holidays including Nov 11 to honor those who have served.

Jan 1 New Year's Day

Apr 10 Good Friday

Apr 13 Easter Monday

May 18 Victoria Day (Many regions)

Jul 1 Canada Day

Sep 7 Labour Day

Oct 12 Thanksgiving Day (All)

Dec 25 Christmas

Dec 26 Boxing Day (Many regions)

According to this site Canada has 9 not including Nov 11 to honor vets.

Canada is most ungrateful country that has had every opportunity to be masters of its own house but has been overshadow unruly immigrants and unhappy briton settlers who have to have something to hate to cover up their ineptness.

If I ever saw a so called Canadian with the maple leaf emblem in a foreign Country I would see that as a call for them to get a beating and a mugging for their parasitic arrogance to world. Really, what has Canada brought to the world table in the way of innovation and wealth creation via business success. The model of carting in immigrant labour to push labor costs down and pump out exports to the US is not success and is more reason for those showcasing the patch to get their head kicked in.

Name one country that brings in immigrants/refugee cowards gives them instant citizenship and credit to go buy a house. There isn't any but Canada. Canada is a joke. If you are looking for the reason why those who who see the Canadian patch like Canada its because Canada is the world's bike where anyone Can go for a ride. Look back at one of the posters boasting about the amount of unprotected sex he got because he was Canadian - Gooodie real accomplishment. Anyone who boasts about that ought to post pictures to see how many would not touch them with a ten foot pole.

Where's our Nov 11 Stat holiday?? The US has ten, Canada has nine. Make Nov 11 a stat!!

[whowhere]

There isn't much of a difference between us.

Oh yes there is, you have lower gas prices, taxes and beer prices. The US has higher GDP and sees nothing wrong in taking advantage of illegal mexican or foreign labor to generate tax revenue for progams they will never qualify for. The US doesn't give auto citizenship whereas Canada does. Canada tries to sell it self as multicultural and the unruly immigrants and so called refugees have in fact signifactly altered the demographics of Canada to situation critical. Canada is a lost country incapable of standing on its own 2 feet. It requires its hands to be held by US/British movies and TV shows. Any movies made in Canada are usually done on the initiative of a US movie producer to get their costs down using Canadian labor and studios and not because a Canadian producer films to produce a movie to hit the theaters.

I am ready to stand Corrected? If anyone can put forward to this thread a movie produced by A Canadian Producer, film in Canadian Studios, and put into the movie theaters and had an audience tell us!! Perhaps the Anglo Canadian losers will get off their asses and set about creating a movie the world will want to see rather parasiting off of British and American made movies.

Not much of a difference because Canada is heavily influenced by US television and employed because of US markets. What makes Canada different is its manner of exploiting Canadian serve the conservative communist party of Canada.

[Guest TrueMetis]

I love how whowhere's major bitch is Gas, Taxes and Beer prices being higher here. It's always the first thing he brings up and says a lot about him.

[g_bambino]

So you are denying Ontario was an open field prior to US independence?

Nope.

So you are denying the fact that Nfld did not have a majority referendum to join Canada and was joined to Canada because of the British Monarch?

I do; but not relevant. I pointed out, and you're now diverting from the fact, that you got both your dates and the gender of your monarchs wrong. There were many more bizarre errors, but with even the most basic, and easily findable, facts wrong, the rest is hardly worth dealing with.

[bush_cheney2004]

I love how whowhere's major bitch is Gas, Taxes and Beer prices being higher here. It's always the first thing he brings up and says a lot about him.

But is also says a lot about Canadian's frustration with their taxes and prices, and they say so in observed behaviours, particluarly in border cities. Canadians also have fewer choices for other consumer items. But if that's what it takes to be "un-American"....then so be it.

[Guest TrueMetis]

But is also says a lot about Canadian's frustration with their taxes and prices, and they say so in observed behaviours, particluarly in border cities. Canadians also have fewer choices for other consumer items. But if that's what it takes to be "un-American"....then so be it.

whowhere is one guy and does not speak for all of Canada. I don't assume you speak for America.

[Guest American Woman]

It's not too surprising that you don't get where I'm coming from; you don't seem to want to. You see, to what I say, you only respond in the negative and contrary; I explain why I do things, you reply by telling me those reasons are laughable and pathetic, and then proceed to enlighten me on the truth: I want the "easy way out", "instant approval".

Ok. Let's recap what you said:

The answer seems rather simple: Because our visible and audible similarities will initially mask our attitudinal differences. Wearing the flag merely speeds up the eventual recognition.

I would say "speeds up the eventual recognition" = "instant approval," and I doubt I would be alone in that.

...I'd venture to say, from my experiences across every continent (save for Antarctica), that he was a relative rarity. Many are slightly hostile to Americans, and it's rather bothersome to have to repeatedly explain to people - especially when language barriers are involved - that, no, you are not one, which they invariably assume you are at first glance and sound. The flag doesn't justify their presumptuous attitude, nor is it an absolute necessity; it merely makes things easier.

I would say "it merely makes things easier" = "easy way out," and I doubt I would be alone in that.

Plus, from Hong Kong to Santiago, Glasgow to Hobart, I've got a lot of random, friendly waves, and - what shock! - I like that.

I would say "liking" that people are waving to you (in your opinion) because you sport a Canadian flag = wanting "instant approval," or at least "liking" instant approval. And as I pointed out, random waves aren't unique to Canadians sporting the Maple Leaf, so I do find that comment laughable. But go ahead and whine about it as you outright insulted me, because I find that laughable (and pathetic), too.

So, no matter how many times I tell you you're wrong, and show you why, and expect that you might just believe me when I say why I do something, you insist that you know better.

Oh, but I clearly do believe you. You just don't like that I see your actions differently than you would like me to see them.

And I stick to my original observation. If Canadians need a patch to identify themselves as such, well, you know the rest .....

[g_bambino]

You just don't like that I see your actions differently than you would like me to see them.

No, madam; I accept your full freedom to think differently than I. What seems to be your problem, though, is that you dislike my not unreservedly accepting as right your views of my own actions. So be it; my sporting a little 5x2.25 cm Canadian flag while abroad has never once brought any scorn or harm upon me; quite the opposite, in fact. So, I won't be ripping it off any time soon.

[c/e]

Edited November 7, 2009 by g_bambino

[bush_cheney2004]

whowhere is one guy and does not speak for all of Canada. I don't assume you speak for America.

And I assume you don't speak for them either, especially the ones trying to beat the taxes, duty, fees, and scarcity.

[bush_cheney2004]

Please don't be a "dork"...LOL!

I'm going to backpack Europe for 4 weeks in December. There'll be a stretch of my trip where I'll be travelling solo through Italy, Austria, and Germany. Is it safe to leave my canadian flag on the back of my pack, or is it an invitation to getting robbed?

Go for it.

But please don't be one of those dorks that puts Canadian flags on everything! It's really pretentious.

I mean the people that walk around with a massive canadian flag on their backpack (like 20cm sq), a maple leafs hat, shorts with a canadian flag on it, and water bottles that say "CANADA".

Wear the flag becuase you're a proud canadian - Not because some people assume that if you distinguish yourself from americans you'll be somehow treated better.

http://www.canuckabroad.com/forums/canadian-flag-on-backpack-vt528.html

[Smallc]

It's really nice to have a critic here that tries to find the deeper meaning to everything that Canadians do....oh wait, no it's not.

[bush_cheney2004]

It's really nice to have a critic here that tries to find the deeper meaning to everything that Canadians do....oh wait, no it's not.

But it's even better to have the American namesake and culture permeate every thread.

Wanna buy a gun?

[mjp]

It is true, most Canadians have a hate for America they rationally can not explain.. but what people don't look at is the simple truths... most of those people are out there slaving away at a job just like you and me... We both have walmart, we got tim hortons and starbucks, and they are now just getting tim hortons... We both got sears, home depot, office depot, etc, etc...

We both have people that vote for stupid political parties that don't get results, and people wonder why that is... BECAUSE WE ELECTED STUPID PEOPLE!!!... We think that having a minority gov't is a bad thing... Americans really don't know what that is, even if you explain it 100 times...

We have the monarchy as our head of state... I don't know if that is something to be proud of or embarrassed over.. because personally, it don't matter either way... They Got the president as their head of state... We Both got the bankers as our real masters... the president is a puppet and so is the Prime minister.

We watch the same reality TV shows and hope some random person that we don't know, nor really care about, not get voted off for some stupid reason.. We both watch the same sports games... and so forth....

So what does it mean to be Canadian... not a damned thing....

Its just a line in the sand.. that divides the land that don't know the difference if over there is the USA or Canada...

There is no REAL Canadian Identity, We have no patriotism, or if we do we sure don't show it, or show we are proud to be Canadian.

Canada is just a Country of Convenience and a place for people to become citizens of convenience... so a real Canadian Identity is we are just a lazy cheap country that sells out our values for a buck...

So in other words, we are just like the USA.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

It is true, most Canadians have a hate for America they rationally can not explain.. but what people don't look at is the simple truths... most of those people are out there slaving away at a job just like you and me... We both have walmart, we got tim hortons and starbucks, and they are now just getting tim hortons... We both got sears, home depot, office depot, etc, etc...

We both have people that vote for stupid political parties that don't get results, and people wonder why that is... BECAUSE WE ELECTED STUPID PEOPLE!!!... We think that having a minority gov't is a bad thing... Americans really don't know what that is, even if you explain it 100 times...

We have the monarchy as our head of state... I don't know if that is something to be proud of or embarrassed over.. because personally, it don't matter either way... They Got the president as their head of state... We Both got the bankers as our real masters... the president is a puppet and so is the Prime minister.

We watch the same reality TV shows and hope some random person that we don't know, nor really care about, not get voted off for some stupid reason.. We both watch the same sports games... and so forth....

So what does it mean to be Canadian... not a damned thing....

Its just a line in the sand.. that divides the land that don't know the difference if over there is the USA or Canada...

There is no REAL Canadian Identity, We have no patriotism, or if we do we sure don't show it, or show we are proud to be Canadian.

Canada is just a Country of Convenience and a place for people to become citizens of convenience... so a real Canadian Identity is we are just a lazy cheap country that sells out our values for a buck...

So in other words, we are just like the USA.

Get a grip.

[whowhere]

It is true, most Canadians have a hate for America they rationally can not explain.. but what people don't look at is the simple truths... most of those people are out there slaving away at a job just like you and me... We both have walmart, we got tim hortons and starbucks, and they are now just getting tim hortons... We both got sears, home depot, office depot, etc, etc...

We both have people that vote for stupid political parties that don't get results, and people wonder why that is... BECAUSE WE ELECTED STUPID PEOPLE!!!... We think that having a minority gov't is a bad thing... Americans really don't know what that is, even if you explain it 100 times...

We have the monarchy as our head of state... I don't know if that is something to be proud of or embarrassed over.. because personally, it don't matter either way... They Got the president as their head of state... We Both got the bankers as our real masters... the president is a puppet and so is the Prime minister.

We watch the same reality TV shows and hope some random person that we don't know, nor really care about, not get voted off for some stupid reason.. We both watch the same sports games... and so forth....

So what does it mean to be Canadian... not a damned thing....

Its just a line in the sand.. that divides the land that don't know the difference if over there is the USA or Canada...

There is no REAL Canadian Identity, We have no patriotism, or if we do we sure don't show it, or show we are proud to be Canadian.

Canada is just a Country of Convenience and a place for people to become citizens of convenience... so a real Canadian Identity is we are just a lazy cheap country that sells out our values for a buck...

So in other words, we are just like the USA.

Actually Canada is nothing like the US but a mooch and a leach to American Culture and economic inovation. Who brought the world the internet? Canada contributes nothing but cultural immolation and the pursuit of exploiting its people while the goverment tit sucking crats siphon off the tax revenues for their own benefits at the expense of Canada's inovation and future. Thanks to the Conservatives and the Government leaches Canada is has a slipping GDP relative to other emerging Countries. Canada's greedy businesses are jacking up retail costs over that of the US just because they can get away with it. Canada has a GST which actually hurts the economy by taking money out of the economy that is needed to sustain it. The US has figured out their tax structure and maybe they have deficits but not everything is at it seems. The US operates in abstract economics which the conservatives can only dream of ever understanding. Because we have losers running the country Canada infrasture will continue to erode and rust away along with any world inovation with it.

Have a look at the US versus Canada

Lower Retail Costs, check => Canada bzzzzzzzzzz

Lower Taxes, check => Canada bzzzzzzzzz

More Stat holidays, check => Canada bzzzzzzzz Canada is so ungrateful they don't have Nov 11 as stat to honor those who stood for freedom and democracy. This is so because we know what's in the hearts and minds of the Conservatives and Canadians in general.

Higher wages, check => Canada bzzzzzzzzzzz

A just legal system, check => Canada bzzzzzzz - good luck finding lawyers who will stand on right and wrong

A growing population and infrasture, Check => Canada bzzzzz - Canada is a world whore of immigrants at the expense of its heritage. Canada will put the world's people before its own people. That is the kind of people Canadian's really are. Nothing but sell out of ideals and common decency. As I said if anyone ever sees someone show casing a Canadian patch in foreign Country I would see as a call for that person to get a severe beating for their arrogance.

Canada needs to get the Sell out Conservatives out and do it before they wreck the Country any further.