Canadian Identity: un-American

[whowhere]

I guess you and Fortunata are two peas in a pod since neither of you thinks I have a right to be here.

Yes, I see it now, you likely doing work on behalf of Canada for the conservatives in the US. You are here to ensure the gravy train keeps on.

I will point you to the Charter of [no] Rights and [selective] Freedoms, which give so-called "Fundamental Rights", "Legal Rights" and "Equality Rights" to "everyone" or "individuals" and "Democratic Rights" and "Mobility Rights" to Canadians only.

Because you claim to be a lawyer, define what all this means. My interpretation and the logical interpretation coming from a dictionary is not necessarily the practiced interpetation by the lawyers of Canada and Canada's corrupt judiciary.

Another pointis that Canadians complain that Americans are ignorant about Canada. That is fair but is it also fair for them to be upset when we Americans do know something about Canada?

Really, how much do you know about Canada. Are you talking about 1867 Canada or 1604 Canada? When talking about Canadians are you refering 1950 onward citizenship Canadian or are you referring to 1755 Canadians referenced by George Washington in his documents. When you talk of Canadians are you refering to the Canadians who fought 4 years alongside the US and aided in the Achievement of an Independent US. These Canadians were betrayed by Benedict arnold. Canada is the tale of two Canadas and two so called Canadians. You people are the beneficiaries of intellectuals who constructed a legal constitution, democracy, and carved out a geography to make the US what it is. Without your government structure and the constitution put in place back in 1780 where would you be today?? Canada has never had such document. The so Called 1950 Canadian is all about hating the US or Quebec.

Your post about Blago had nothing to do with the national President or Congress.

I was only referencing recent history. Nixon as you pointed out was kicked out of office. The fact is, the congress which is independent of the white house and the judiciary has the power to remove the president from office. Canada has a parliament (your congress) is not separated from the Prime Minister (your president) and his cabinet (your president's administration). Because of this Canada is a victim of political corruption.

Agreed but Canada's far less corrupt than most countries on earth.

The only Countries Canada can be compared with is the UK, France, the US, Australia, and any other connected European Country. Compared to the US, Canada is a weak democracy. Not only is it a weak democracy, Canada so called 1982 Constitution was not voted in by the people but imposed on them by the liberals, the supreme court, and the monarch. In the US, the constitution was voted in/on by each state.

Don't bother. He's too dumb to know what that is.

Smart enough to not be wasting my time on an American forum to talk about stuff that doesn't affect me. I suspect you are Canadian living working in the US with connections to the politics of Canada. So really how much value can anyone put on what you have to say.

[jbg]

Yes, I see it now, you likely doing work on behalf of Canada for the conservatives in the US. You are here to ensure the gravy train keeps on.

I happen to work about 60 hours a week as a lawyer and mess arouind on the boards for an hour or two most evenings.

Because you claim to be a lawyer, define what all this means. My interpretation and the logical interpretation coming from a dictionary is not necessarily the practiced interpetation by the lawyers of Canada and Canada's corrupt judiciary.

I was relying on the wording of the Charter, on what rights are given to Canadians as opposed to the rights of non-Canadians who happen to be in Canada or have transactions involving Canada.

Really, how much do you know about Canada. Are you talking about 1867 Canada or 1604 Canada? When talking about Canadians are you refering 1950 onward citizenship Canadian or are you referring to 1755 Canadians referenced by George Washington in his documents. When you talk of Canadians are you refering to the Canadians who fought 4 years alongside the US and aided in the Achievement of an Independent US. These Canadians were betrayed by Benedict arnold. Canada is the tale of two Canadas and two so called Canadians. You people are the beneficiaries of intellectuals who constructed a legal constitution, democracy, and carved out a geography to make the US what it is. Without your government structure and the constitution put in place back in 1780 where would you be today?? Canada has never had such document. The so Called 1950 Canadian is all about hating the US or Quebec.

What does this have to do with: "Another point is that Canadians complain that Americans are ignorant about Canada. That is fair but is it also fair for them to be upset when we Americans do know something about Canada?"? Just curious though, who are the "1755 Canadians" discussed by George Washington? This part of your post marks a sharp descent into incoherence.

I was only referencing recent history. Nixon as you pointed out was kicked out of office. The fact is, the congress which is independent of the white house and the judiciary has the power to remove the president from office. Canada has a parliament (your congress) is not separated from the Prime Minister (your president) and his cabinet (your president's administration). Because of this Canada is a victim of political corruption.

But the GG does have the power to kick out a PM. As does the party the PM heads up in leadership review. Just ask Jean Chretien or Ralph Klein (resigned ahead of leadership loss).

The only Countries Canada can be compared with is the UK, France, the US, Australia, and any other connected European Country. Compared to the US, Canada is a weak democracy. Not only is it a weak democracy, Canada so called 1982 Constitution was not voted in by the people but imposed on them by the liberals, the supreme court, and the monarch. In the US, the constitution was voted in/on by each state.

The U.S. Constitution was also not voted on by the people. And why not compare Canada to less advanced countries?

Smart enough to not be wasting my time on an American forum to talk about stuff that doesn't affect me. I suspect you are Canadian living working in the US with connections to the politics of Canada. So really how much value can anyone put on what you have to say.

My only connection to Canadians is going to Blue Rodeo and Great Big Sea concerts in New York City. In fact, I saw Blue Rodeo in New York City on November 13, 2009 at the City Winery, 155 Varick Street, near the mouth of the Holland Tunnel. And I'll decde how I spend my time.

[whowhere]

Just curious though, who are the "1755 Canadians" discussed by George Washington? This part of your post marks a sharp descent into incoherence.

Incoherence???

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/mgw:@field%28DOCID+@lit%28gw010118%29%29

"http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/mgw:@field%28DOCID+@lit%28gw010118%29%29"

George Washington to Robert Jackson, August 2, 1755

but a few moments before, believ'd our number's almost equal to the Canadian Force; they only expected to annoy us. Yet, contrary to all expectation and human probability, and even to the common course of things, we were totally defeated,

Your knowledge of your own history is nauseating to say the least.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

To be fair, those were British soldiers. Not exactly Canadian. Aside from that most Americans pay little attention to anything after their independence from Britain with respect to English efforts.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

To be fair, those were British soldiers. Not exactly Canadian. Aside from that most Americans pay little attention to anything after their independence from Britain with respect to English efforts.

[jbg]

To be fair, those were British soldiers. Not exactly Canadian. Aside from that most Americans pay little attention to anything after their independence from Britain with respect to English efforts.

Actually, the nascent Canadians fought better than the British then, and in 1812. The British troops at Trenton and Yorktown (Revolutionary War) and New Orleans (War of 1812) didn't fare very well. General Brock's Canadian forces did.

[whowhere]

To be fair, those were British soldiers. Not exactly Canadian. Aside from that most Americans pay little attention to anything after their independence from Britain with respect to English efforts.

What are you talking about? Quebec/Canada was lost to the British Monarch in 1759. The date of that George Washington letter is 1755. You must be smoking Crack, George Washington was a British Soldier at that point In 1776 George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and so forth spearheaded American Indpendence from the British Monarch. Put the crack pipe down and pay attention to the details.

[jbg]

What are you talking about? Quebec/Canada was lost to the British Monarch in 1759. The date of that George Washington letter is 1755.

You make a good point there. I had been thinking of the Canadians that bested us in the War of 1812, who clearly were largely British. I sitll venture to guess that the French-Canadians, who were frontiersmen, were better fighters than the European British. The American colonials turned out to be better fighters than the European British.

But I do stand corrected.

You must be smoking Crack, George Washington was a British Soldier at that point In 1776 George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and so forth spearheaded American Indpendence from the British Monarch. Put the crack pipe down and pay attention to the details.

As Phil Ochs famously sang "smoking marijuana is more fun than drinking beer..." Smoking crack is as well, so I won't put down my crack pipe.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

What are you talking about? Quebec/Canada was lost to the British Monarch in 1759. The date of that George Washington letter is 1755. You must be smoking Crack, George Washington was a British Soldier at that point In 1776 George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and so forth spearheaded American Indpendence from the British Monarch. Put the crack pipe down and pay attention to the details.

Ouch I stand corrected.. I wasn't paying attention to details! The date went over my head, the fact of the matter was that at that point he was indeed part of the British military and was fighting French Canadians and Indians and in fact defeated by them in latter engagments, he surrendered to them.

[Anacoluthe]

In tha list, I am familiar with the works of Rousseau and Voltaire. Voltair believed in individualism, free speech, etc. Rousseau believed in the "general will" which translated later into something better known as "communism".

Rosseau was the progenitor of the French, not American revolution. The intellectual forces behind the American Revolution were more John Locke, Thomas Paine and later Adam Smith.

Adam Smith? Surely not... unless if you're refering to the "invisible hand" concept that was used few century later to justify a totally unruled market while Adam Smith himself explained that the "invisible hand" could only works in a very small place (like a village) that will also have to be isolated from any foreign influence.

About Rousseau: Right, he was more behind the french revolution, but still, his concept of the right for the people to get happiness (meaning: enough goods to make a decent living) was used a lot to build the american values.

Evangelical values? Perhaps you'd like to expand upon this term and cite a few examples.

Whether they are or aren't I'd like to see how the Tories are on the offensive to substitute evangelical values for Canadian values.

Well, just look about what they talk about. It's obvious that they try to substitute values about social-egality, egality of chances and other sharing values by much more individualist values. Even worst, those are values with a smell of religion around them too (fighting homosexual mariage, marijuana decriminalization, etc.) The Canadian values aren't "social" values in the way the comunism is, but a sense of duty toward the country and other fellow citizens was always there in the past history of Canada, along with a firm beleive in providing some egality of chances for everyone (huge difference here between communism/socialism who tried to proveide egality and a social-democracy who try to provide egality of chances).

Otherwise, the Canada had always been a progressive country, a country that try to work out new solutions to problems coming from an ever changing world. But now we see more and more people wanting non-sense stuff...

Why beeing against homosexual mariage? What coult it ever change in your life if two homosexual person get married? Will it suddenly turn your grass blue? NO! The only reason people may want this is because of morale reason and the evangelist/baptist movement in both USA and Canada have been the most active about this (wich of course doesn't mean that all the baptist/evangelist are against that).

Why wanting to improve police enforcement and put people in jail for longer while it's already have been proved numerous time that 1) The length of the incarceration have almost no influence in the people who commit a crime because they ALL firmly beleive that they will never ever be caught (yeah, I know criminals are often stupids) and 2)Whatever the only thing that can reduce the crime rate is crime prevention. Adding policemen, giving them more power, giving them better equipement is absolutely and totally useless: It's have been tried since many century with NO sucess at all while crime prevention works a lot where it is used. Here again, people want this because they feel like it is right (no pun intended) to "punish" those who have a bad behavior, even if doing things that way doesn't works at all. They don't want to consider that if a teen comit a crime, it's not a failure of the kid, but a failure of the community and so, it belong to the community to fix things up by paying reparation to the victim but also by working with the teen to correct what's wrong with him (instead of puting him in jail wich is the best "crime university"). And here again, the baptist/evangelist movement is the most intransigeant about those things.

There's many more, of course, but you asked for few exemples...

Canada is corrupt because it lacks the checks and balances the US has. The conservative parties only pursuit is to feather their own nests at the expense of Canada's future. Canada has no competent institution to stop the conservatives, the liberals, and the other party co-conspirators from wrecking the country with their communist style governance.

Well, there's a mechanism to stop a party in Canada, it's called voting.

Otherwise, you didn't mention that in Canada money take a much lesser part in the result of the election by limiting the autorized spendings. In USA, it's often the one with most money that win. I much prefer the Canadian system than the US one.

[whowhere]

You make a good point there. I had been thinking of the Canadians that bested us in the War of 1812, who clearly were largely British. I sitll venture to guess that the French-Canadians, who were frontiersmen, were better fighters than the European British. The American colonials turned out to be better fighters than the European British.

The French/Canadians did not fight against the Americans in 1812. If they did it was under duress of the British Monarch. The war of 1812 was won as you stated because of the British monarch not because of those who fled American Independence in 1776 and set up shop in Ontario. The war of 1812 is British History not 1867 Canada history.

[whowhere]

Ouch I stand corrected.. I wasn't paying attention to details! The date went over my head, the fact of the matter was that at that point he was indeed part of the British military and was fighting French Canadians and Indians and in fact defeated by them in latter engagments, he surrendered to them.

More crack pipe smoking. George Washington went on to bring about an Independent United States and was their first president. George washington will be remembered and studied for thousands of years into the future. His works can be found at the Library of Congress a US government initiative. Where's Canada's online archive of documents?

Another difference between the US and Canada they have nothing to hide. Whereas Canada is about doing little to nothing and taking as much they can.

[whowhere]

Well, there's a mechanism to stop a party in Canada, it's called voting.

Otherwise, you didn't mention that in Canada money take a much lesser part in the result of the election by limiting the autorized spendings. In USA, it's often the one with most money that win. I much prefer the Canadian system than the US one.

You are obviously a simpleton and you miss the fact that no one has the power to veto the acts of parliament aside from the rubber stamp Governor General.

It is actually very easy for Canada to be kind of a republic in a stroke of the pen by the Queen or the future King Charles.

All she/he would have to do is put forward a proclamation stating the senate will be chosen by the people and the Governor General will be chose by the people. The Governor General will still be the monarch's representative. Really, I am quite surprised this has not been pursued. I can't be surprised and my prior posts are affirmed that Canada's political parties are parasites and corrupt out look out for themselves rather than progess and scale the country in line with peer countries.

[Guest TrueMetis]

The French/Canadians did not fight against the Americans in 1812. If they did it was under duress of the British Monarch. The war of 1812 was won as you stated because of the British monarch not because of those who fled American Independence in 1776 and set up shop in Ontario. The war of 1812 is British History not 1867 Canada history.

So who was it that defended Quebec when America tried to take it?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

More crack pipe smoking. George Washington went on to bring about an Independent United States and was their first president. George washington will be remembered and studied for thousands of years into the future. His works can be found at the Library of Congress a US government initiative. Where's Canada's online archive of documents?

Another difference between the US and Canada they have nothing to hide. Whereas Canada is about doing little to nothing and taking as much they can.

What on earth are you babbling about. George Washington was only part of the independence movement, not all or even the most important part just a part. With all due respect we are a small and young nation. As far as taking as much as we can, I would like to see that backed up to some extent. Can you do that?

[whowhere]

What on earth are you babbling about. George Washington was only part of the independence movement, not all or even the most important part just a part. With all due respect we are a small and young nation. As far as taking as much as we can, I would like to see that backed up to some extent. Can you do that?

Canada is not a young nation. Canada was has it origins in Nouvelle France which was the Canadians George Washington was talking about. That Canada started around 1604 in parallel with the establishment of New York City - 1608. This History of North America is 400 years old. Your propaganda Canada was established in 1867 and went to war with Quebec in the 1970's by trying to impose your arogance onto Quebec with your delusions of Grandeur. The 1982 Constitution Quebec was slighted and since that inception the politically corrupt have used that document to unravel Canada and in turn tried to convince Canadians they are now a multicultural shithole. Speak for yourself Canada and Canadian has meaning. 1867 Canadians are nothing more than simulated bacon bits.

Once again, the Contrast between the US and Canada is the US embraces history, 1867 Canada runs from history.

[jbg]

What on earth are you babbling about. George Washington was only part of the independence movement, not all or even the most important part just a part. With all due respect we are a small and young nation. As far as taking as much as we can, I would like to see that backed up to some extent. Can you do that?

You're quite right. GW was in th eright place at the right time at the Battle of Yorktown. He was not a particularly good general.

The British threw in the towel as much because of American persistance and their own fiscal problems than anything.

[ToadBrother]

Canada is not a young nation. Canada was has it origins in Nouvelle France which was the Canadians George Washington was talking about. That Canada started around 1604 in parallel with the establishment of New York City - 1608. This History of North America is 400 years old. Your propaganda Canada was established in 1867 and went to war with Quebec in the 1970's by trying to impose your arogance onto Quebec with your delusions of Grandeur. The 1982 Constitution Quebec was slighted and since that inception the politically corrupt have used that document to unravel Canada and in turn tried to convince Canadians they are now a multicultural shithole. Speak for yourself Canada and Canadian has meaning. 1867 Canadians are nothing more than simulated bacon bits.

I think most folks know their history very well.

Once again, the Contrast between the US and Canada is the US embraces history, 1867 Canada runs from history.

Oh come on, some of goofy crap that has for well over a hundred years passed as history? All that BS about George Washington. The Americans did far more to mythologize the Founding Fathers than the Canadians ever did for anyone related to the formulation of Canada. Heck, we even joke about Sir John A's renowned drunkenness.

[bush_cheney2004]

.....All that BS about George Washington. The Americans did far more to mythologize the Founding Fathers than the Canadians ever did for anyone related to the formulation of Canada. Heck, we even joke about Sir John A's renowned drunkenness.

That's because the Americans actually "founded" something instead of slowly evolving by "formulation".

[g_bambino]

All that BS about George Washington. The Americans did far more to mythologize the Founding Fathers than the Canadians ever did for anyone related to the formulation of Canada.

Indeed. And if that makes us un-American, so be it.

[Anacoluthe]

You are obviously a simpleton and you miss the fact that no one has the power to veto the acts of parliament aside from the rubber stamp Governor General.

Hum... I'm not a simpleton, I don't think so. I just think that if you elect a government, it's a bit idiotic to also elect someone to eventually also impede it.

Logically, you vote for the party who have the plans you prefer for the future of the country (at least for the next few years), so what's the point to elect also someone to impede it decisions? The USA system looks pretty much redundant and dysfunctioning to me.

[jbg]

Hum... I'm not a simpleton, I don't think so. I just think that if you elect a government, it's a bit idiotic to also elect someone to eventually also impede it.

Logically, you vote for the party who have the plans you prefer for the future of the country (at least for the next few years), so what's the point to elect also someone to impede it decisions? The USA system looks pretty much redundant and dysfunctioning to me.

What the American system does is ensure that one party leader can't ram an unwanted program down the people's throat, at least not willingly. We would be most unlikely to get, for example, forced bi-lingualism here. Even health care reform looks doubtful. And if it passes some Senators and Reps will likely be toast.

[Argus]

What the American system does is ensure that one party leader can't ram an unwanted program down the people's throat,

Or a wanted one, for that matter. Most of the American public wants public health care. Unfortunately, much of your congress cares more for the fat cheques they get from the health care industry.

[jbg]

Or a wanted one, for that matter. Most of the American public wants public health care. Unfortunately, much of your congress cares more for the fat cheques they get from the health care industry.

Many people may want public health care; not many want to pay for it.

[whowhere]

Indeed. And if that makes us un-American, so be it.

Yeah unamerican, via the fact Canada parasites a medium which they did not create nor have an industry that contributes to the backbone of driving the internet and the internet technologies forward yet you sows through mud at the US. Canada watches mostly US/British produced movies and television shows and lacks to the intellect to produce movies and shows the world wants to watch. The US doesn't try to retire on the sale of food, beer, and gas in Canada we pay inflated prices in the neighborhood of 40 to 50%. We have a gst they have no federal Tax. They have an elaborate highway infrastructure which is operated by the US government. Canada's Federal Government can't be bothered with the highway infrastructure. The US produces and manufacturers it own military weaponary. Canada couldn't produce a bow and arrow without collaborating with the know how of other countries.

Canada is a parasitic Country that has rode the coat tails of the world for to long. Canada's claim to fame is bringing in other countries losers and rejects who couldn't make it the country they left so they come here to canada. Wow is it any wonder why Canada is the backass Country it is today.