SciFi becomes a reality !

[GostHacked]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_thruster

http://nmp.nasa.gov/ds1/tech/ionpropfaq.html

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/sola...ion_000816.html

WASHINGTON -- A space propulsion technology often featured in science fiction could become the method of choice for future missions exploring deep into the cosmos.

The technology, called ion propulsion, already has proved its worth aboard NASA's Deep Space 1 probe. The spacecraft this week logged a record 200 days operating its ion-drive engine. That's more accumulated engine time than any other propulsion system in the history of the space program.

"This is really the Energizer bunny of space missions," said Marc Rayman, project manager for Deep Space 1 at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena, California.

The $152 million mission, which was launched in October 1998, keeps going and going thanks to a futuristic propulsion system that runs on atomic particles rather than chemical fuel. The system, built by Hughes Space and Communications, allows a spacecraft like Deep Space 1 to attain great speeds with a minimum amount of fuel.

Stuff like this just blows me away. There was an artilce in the Ottawa Sun the other day about Canadian and US teams working at NASA to develope this new technology. And it seems to work beautifuly. There was a notion of this technology in the early 1900s, but only now with our level of advancement are we able to actually pull this off.

For trips to Mars, using conventional rocket propulsion it would take about 6 months to get to Mars. We can cut that down to 40 days with this new technology. It would make it possible to set up camp at Mars, and be able to have regular supply missions.

And it's not the first time for this.

The previous record for ion propulsion was 161 days on NASA's Space Electric Rocket Test 2, which was launched into Earth orbit in 1970. The only other system that has operated longer is a ground-based replica of Deep Space 1's engine, which has been running in a vacuum chamber at JPL for almost 500 days

Now all we need are the space elevator and the space dock. If they need volunteers, count me in!!!!

[DogOnPorch]

Why you aren't involved is beyond me.

http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/orbit.html

[GostHacked]

Why you aren't involved is beyond me.

http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/orbit.html

That looks pretty neat!.

[DogOnPorch]

That looks pretty neat!.

I'm a credited designer on this project. If you want realistic space flight....try it out. We're busy getting a new version ready, but, it'll still be a while before it's released.

Here's a few sites to check out...

http://orbiter.dansteph.com/ (Orbiter Sound...developed seperately...+ the Delta Glider IV advanced space plane.)

http://orbiter.mustard-fr.com/ (Mustard's site...tons of goodies)

http://www.orbithangar.com/ (many many many addons for Orbiter)

http://www.acsoft.ch/AMSO/amso.html (Apollo)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/nassp/ (very complex Apollo)

http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/ (Mercury and Gemini)

Edited October 21, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[Guest TrueMetis]

Ion propulsion very cool. I want to go to Mars!

[GostHacked]

Nice goin Dog !! Yer a nerd right!??!?!?! Or at least a geek. Impressive stuff. Keep it up.

[DogOnPorch]

Nice goin Dog !! Yer a nerd right!??!?!?! Or at least a geek. Impressive stuff. Keep it up.

Dr Martin Schweiger is the creator of the main program. Myself and others are just willing minions. Oddly, his main area of work is in tomography rather than space flight. He designed Orbiter, as he says, for 'fun'. It has been in continuous development since about 2001.

I recommend at least a 128mb video card to run it properly. Install is easy as it doesn't write to your registry...it simply runs from the folder that you unzip...ie...unzip to desktop...add any extras you'd like such as high resolution textures, historical rockets, etc...find the Orbiter.exe in the folder...run it...adjust the program's parameters to suit your computer...pick a scenario/mission...hit the "Launch Orbiter' button....have fun. Supports joysticks and TrackIR if your familiar with that.

It pays to read the manual as space flight isn't as easy as one might expect. Pointing one's craft at the Moon and hitting the gas isn't gonna do it...lol.

Our general goal with Orbiter is to get it to the level where NASA and ESA, et al use it for demonstrating their missions. We've had some success in this area but accuracy had to have a 10 fold increase before it is truly useful...thus the new versions every so often. The first version of Orbiter was pretty primitive. Compare it to the 2006 version...

[GostHacked]

Dr Martin Schweiger is the creator of the main program. Myself and others are just willing minions. Oddly, his main area of work is in tomography rather than space flight. He designed Orbiter, as he says, for 'fun'. It has been in continuous development since about 2001. .......

Ohhhh crying out loud. Now you are giving me the perfect reason to pick up some peripherals for the PC, like flight sticks and throttles. Does this support multi monitor?? I will be checking this out. I hope guys are successful in getting NASA to use this. For a hobby that is a really ambitous project.

Simulate me an ION drive in this SIM. !!!!!

[DogOnPorch]

Ohhhh crying out loud. Now you are giving me the perfect reason to pick up some peripherals for the PC, like flight sticks and throttles. Does this support multi monitor?? I will be checking this out. I hope guys are successful in getting NASA to use this. For a hobby that is a really ambitous project.

There are already several NASA, ESA and Russian Space Agency fellows helping out with the project. We've already buried various competing projects. You can download the public beta of the new version and help with playtesting if so desired (super-highres Earth being one feature). I believe there is multi-monitor support...if not already, it's being developed. I forget what version I'm using at times. If you want most of the 3rd party addons to work, stick with the 2006 version w/ the patch.

Simulate me an ION drive in this SIM. !!!!!

Already done. You might want to do a few searches here.

http://orbiter-forum.com/index.php

[GostHacked]

There are already several NASA, ESA and Russian Space Agency fellows helping out with the project. We've already buried various competing projects. You can download the public beta of the new version and help with playtesting if so desired (super-highres Earth being one feature). I believe there is multi-monitor support...if not already, it's being developed. I forget what version I'm using at times. If you want most of the 3rd party addons to work, stick with the 2006 version w/ the patch.

Already done. You might want to do a few searches here.

http://orbiter-forum.com/index.php

Hot damn!!! I'll definately give it a try!

[M.Dancer]

Has anyone seen the pseudo scientific show on History called ancient discoveries?

In keeping with that tone, allow me....

Before NASA unvielled the Ion drive, Ancient Greece had a secret weapon that turned the tide on the Persian Empire

The Ionian Drive

[eyeball]

Sci-fi is pretty neat alright. Its just too bad the reality we chose to make of things will likely result in sci-fi staying in the realm of fiction.

Instead of squandering Earth's resources on military adventures and making a few people ridiculously wealthy we could have been using them to build the elevators and infrastructure we ndeed to establish a permanant step up to Earth's orbit, the halfway point to just about anywhere else you want to go in the solar system.

I can't help but wonder if we've blown, or are close to blowing, our specie's nest egg. It probably works like this on many planets where technological civilizations evolve and arise only to briefly flare up like a supernova and just as quickly fade back into oblivion. How many make it to the full maturity of a true spacefaring species is anyone's guess, but by some estimates if such a species existed anytime in the last 4 million years in our galaxy we should be seeing at least a sign of it. Where are they? Here's another Where are they link.

How do we develop a view that's longer than the lifetimes of a few generations? Are we better off going for broke now and putting the pedal to the metal of our economy and the boots to our environment and putting everything we've got into getting ourselves into space? The problem is by the time we have an answer to that question it could be too late to change our mind.

Its a little un-nerving to know that some physicists are of the view that all the really big discoveries in physics have been made and there's little to suggest that the really out-there things of sci-fi will be anymore than that, way out there. Apparently there are no warp drives on the horizon. Perhaps we'd be better off concluding Earth is the best spaceship we'll likely ever have and content ourselves with keeping it maintained for the forseeable future. OTOH I guess we could always build a Ringworld out of it.

Edited October 21, 2009 by eyeball

[GostHacked]

Apparently there are no warp drives on the horizon.

If you want to look at Star Trek 'timelines'.... they had thrusters and impulse engines (for sublight), they only WISH they had ion engines. We are ahead of the game!! Theoretically warp drives are possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive The math is waaaaayyyyy beyond my understanding.

[DogOnPorch]

If you want to look at Star Trek 'timelines'.... they had thrusters and impulse engines (for sublight), they only WISH they had ion engines. We are ahead of the game!! Theoretically warp drives are possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive The math is waaaaayyyyy beyond my understanding.

Post about it on Orbiter Forum and perhaps some JPL/NASA fellow will answer.

[Riverwind]

How many make it to the full maturity of a true spacefaring species is anyone's guess, but by some estimates if such a species existed anytime in the last 4 million years in our galaxy we should be seeing at least a sign of it.

An interesting analysis. But it omits two points:

1) A space faring civilization would need to build self contained bio-spheres that could keep people alive for the long one way trips to other star systems. Civilizations capable of doing that would no longer need planets. In fact, after several generations, it is likely that the inhabitants of these bio-spheres would not be able to tolerate plantary gravity.

2) The analysis notes that the development of single celled organisms is probably very likely which means every planet capable of supporting life would be a cesspool of bacteria and other organisms that feed on others. Alien lifeforms which are not adapted to such an environment would not last long - especially if one was starting with a small population transported on a spaceship.

[Oleg Bach]

We have traveled trillions of light years in the last little while on our space ship. The name of the ship is called Earth.

[DogOnPorch]

The trouble with the Fermi Paradox is that it is totally Earth/Human-centric.

[Oleg Bach]

The trouble with the Fermi Paradox is that it is totally Earth/Human-centric.

We are the miracle. There is no other life other than us. We maybe all that is left of the spirit of God also. So once we are gone all life and intelligence is absorbed by the void - the proverbial pit. Sure we hope that we are not alone - that justifies destroying each other. If we understood that we are alone..we might function better and be more happy and hold together this heavely space that we inhabit. Instead we are fooled into believing that there are replacements and we are expendable.

[DogOnPorch]

We are the miracle. There is no other life other than us. We maybe all that is left of the spirit of God also. So once we are gone all life and intelligence is absorbed by the void - the proverbial pit. Sure we hope that we are not alone - that justifies destroying each other. If we understood that we are alone..we might function better and be more happy and hold together this heavely space that we inhabit. Instead we are fooled into believing that there are replacements and we are expendable.

What is the Fermi Paradox, Oleg?

[Oleg Bach]

What is the Fermi Paradox, Oleg?

Well you seem to have cornerd me on that oh wise one. I ASSUMED - that Ferma or Fermi had something to do with soil or earth - so I winged it..what did you expect me to do - research the stupid concept...okay smart guy - educate me..

[Guest TrueMetis]

We are the miracle. There is no other life other than us. We maybe all that is left of the spirit of God also. So once we are gone all life and intelligence is absorbed by the void - the proverbial pit. Sure we hope that we are not alone - that justifies destroying each other. If we understood that we are alone..we might function better and be more happy and hold together this heavely space that we inhabit. Instead we are fooled into believing that there are replacements and we are expendable.

I'm sure you've travelled everywere in the universe, so you have the knowledge to make these claims. Right?

[Oleg Bach]

I'm sure you've travelled everywere in the universe, so you have the knowledge to make these claims. Right?

You have a little native blood and understand Christianity and Shamanism? Yes I have traveled far and wide. Does it bother you that YOU might be sacred? Or would you rather be profane and wage war instead? I have a sister that has been everywhere on the planet - every city - the north the south - the jungle the desert...and she learned NOTHING>.. I stand still and learn all....besides how difficult can it be to accept reality after filtering out the garbage. The older you get the more your cosmic memory returns.

[GostHacked]

Well you seem to have cornerd me on that oh wise one. I ASSUMED - that Ferma or Fermi had something to do with soil or earth - so I winged it..what did you expect me to do - research the stupid concept...okay smart guy - educate me..

Your Internet tip of the day. .... Use Google. And with Firefox, highlight a word right click, search!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

But here is a possible answer as to why we do not see evidence of other civilizations out there. They may not exist in our galaxy! There are a billion billion stars in our galaxy, and we are in just one of a billion other galaxies out there.

We might also find out limitations in what we think space travel could be. We may never get warp drive, or FTL. Who knows!!

I've always been a dreamer when it comes to space, space travel, and alien intelligence. I'd like to think it exists, but until we see it for our own eyes. ...

On the other hand V is comming soon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_(2009_TV_series)

[DogOnPorch]

Your Internet tip of the day. .... Use Google. And with Firefox, highlight a word right click, search!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

But here is a possible answer as to why we do not see evidence of other civilizations out there. They may not exist in our galaxy! There are a billion billion stars in our galaxy, and we are in just one of a billion other galaxies out there.

We might also find out limitations in what we think space travel could be. We may never get warp drive, or FTL. Who knows!!

I've always been a dreamer when it comes to space, space travel, and alien intelligence. I'd like to think it exists, but until we see it for our own eyes. ...

On the other hand V is comming soon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_(2009_TV_series)

I hate to say 'never', but there are some real physical problems with going faster than light. Do atoms start coming apart at the seams? Stuff like that.

If anything Orbiter teaches one is that space is bleedin' huge. A trip to the outer planets illustrates this. Takes months if not years. A great beginner's mission is a trip from the surface of Mars to its inner moon, Phobos. Once you figure out how to do that, trips to the ISS or the Moon (Earth's) are a lot easier on the brain.

Basically, it goes like this.

1. Launch eastward from Mars.

2. Get into orbit...lopsided is ok.

3. Circularize your orbit so there's no eccentricity.

4. Align your orbital plane with that of Phobos.

5. Plot a rendezvous window using one of the on board computers.

6. Do a pro-grade burn of the correct length at the correct time. Again...the on board computers are your friend.

7. Rendezvous with Phobos.

8. Attempt landing. Phobos's gravity is very light so landing can be a chore...you tend to drift off these smaller bodies. Around Jupiter especially.

Here's an excellent additional deep space navigation computer that works well with 'TransX'...the deep space navigation computer that comes with Orbiter. See below the 'Lunar Transfer MFD' (multifunction display).

http://koti.mbnet.fi/jarmonik/Orbiter.html

If you need any help getting started, let me know.

[DogOnPorch]

Here's a cool "space video" from 1965 During the two week long Gemini VII mission (Frank Borman, Jim Lovell), the crew filmed a Polaris missile launch from orbit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSi32-xqkkw