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NDP support for Tories sign of broader strategy


jdobbin

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:rolleyes: You support the NDP and you'll never stop, hypocrisy or not. Just admit it.

Yep. I support the Liberals. It seems Iggy is being a little two fisted on the HST. Not so hard for me to admit.

Why is it so hard for others? I'll never understand....of course, this is all a false Liberal talking point. Just like EI isn't a talking point for the dippers. Yikes.

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It makes me laugh when both the Liberals and the Conservatives refer to the NDP and the Bloc as socialists and separatists. They both do it when the other guy is getting support and they are not, its hilarious.

It's a poke at the CPC supporters and the CPC's own ad's accusing Ignatieff of working with the Seperatists and Socialists.

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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Another great post, this time from the left.

This was enough motivation for Jack.

* Conservative 37.5% (+6.2)

* Liberal 33.4% (-0.4]

* NDP 14.8% (-3.9)

* BQ 9.7% (+0.5)

* Green 4.6% (-2.4)

* Undecided 24.6% (+8.9)

Honestly, you may be right though. Jack Layton may not be as motivated by polls as other parties are simply due to the fact that the NDP will never win government until there's a massive reorganisation of party ideology. He can stand on principle whenever he wants. Problem is this EI bill wasn't standing on principle. It was a watered down piece of garbage. There was a reason why the Liberals walked out of the talks, despite what Pierre Poilievre has to say. Saying they did it "to support EI reform" is just saving face at best.

Nice poll however it is not the newest poll the newest ones show the NDP at 17% ouch again. Ohhh the Liberals are in the 20s in those polls as well.

PS that is more we are going to get in EI right away then we are after another 40 days of campaigning only to see the Liberals lose another election. Right now Harper is giving something however after another win he gets at least 6 months to do whatever he wants to forward his agenda. Liberals don't get it they are going to lose and give Harper a 6 month free pass so he will not have to moderate to the extent they are now. I am glade Jack is being responsible and voting for an EI extension as opposed to the Liberals who keep saying extending benefits to 200,000 Canadians are crumbs you tell that to the people getting the extentions. Don't worry you can bring down the government and lose an election after this bill to help real people is past ok Liberals?

Edited by punked
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:rolleyes: You support the NDP and you'll never stop, hypocrisy or not. Just admit it.

I do support the NDP and at one time I supported the Liberals. Until the NDP acts the swipes at progressives the Liberals did in the 90s I will most likely stick with them unless the Liberals actually enact progressive policies at some point becuase they are a right wing party when you look at what they have done in the 90s.

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Nice poll however it is not the newest poll the newest ones show the NDP at 17% ouch again.

PS that is more we are going to get in EI right away then we are after another 40 days of campaigning only to see the Liberals lose another election. Right now Harper is giving something however after another win he gets at least 6 months to do whatever he wants to forward his agenda. Liberals don't get it they are going to lose and give Harper a 6 month free pass so he will not have to moderate to the extent they are now. I am glade Jack is being responsible and voting for an EI extension as opposed to the Liberals who keep saying extending benefits to 200,000 Canadians are crumbs you tell that to the people getting the extentions. Don't worry you can bring down the government and lose an election after this bill to help real people is past ok Liberals?

Link on the new poll?

As for mine, notice the fact that about 9% of voters are still undecided. Declaring any one party a victor or a loser before the writ has even been dropped is extremely stupid. As for the rest of your post, yes, what Canadians are getting right now are crumbs. The conservatives didn't want to compromise, thye would show up to these meetings and sabotage them. Mind you, it was really bad optics for the Liberals to walk out on these talks, but they were never going anywhere anyways. The Conservatives with the help of Jack Layton basically got their narrow minded and unfair version of an EI bill that won't help people now. I was helping out at a constit office and got a call from a woman who worked 800 hours and couldn't qualify for EI because she needed close to 1000 due to being an Ontarian. Why should someone in the maritimes qualify after 400? Maybe that's a question you should ask happy Jack at your next convention.

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Link on the new poll?

As for mine, notice the fact that about 9% of voters are still undecided. Declaring any one party a victor or a loser before the writ has even been dropped is extremely stupid. As for the rest of your post, yes, what Canadians are getting right now are crumbs. The conservatives didn't want to compromise, thye would show up to these meetings and sabotage them. Mind you, it was really bad optics for the Liberals to walk out on these talks, but they were never going anywhere anyways. The Conservatives with the help of Jack Layton basically got their narrow minded and unfair version of an EI bill that won't help people now. I was helping out at a constit office and got a call from a woman who worked 800 hours and couldn't qualify for EI because she needed close to 1000 due to being an Ontarian. Why should someone in the maritimes qualify after 400? Maybe that's a question you should ask happy Jack at your next convention.

Here you go you can look at all the polls in the last year if you want.

http://www.sfu.ca/~aheard/elections/polls.html

Only 50% of people vote undecideds usually don't vote in Canada that is life. I know the Liberals keep telling me they didn't want to work on EI but I wasn't in those meetings. However I did see the Liberals quit the meetings halfway through the summer while the Cons kept meeting even though the Liberals didn't show up. Then they came out with an extension to EI costing a billion dollars which helps 200,000 Canadians. Then I saw the Liberals vote against not because it wouldn't help but becuase they couldn't claim victory. SHAME is all I have to say.

As for qualification hours THAT IS A LIBERAL LAW! Plan and simple there are many Liberals still in parliament who voted for those very rules as the NDP voted against is and fought it. Like I said this is a good start. It is better those people falling off EI stay on it while they try to get a job then to go an election the Liberals lose and those 200,000 people fall off of EI and people get screwed on minimum hours. Is it the final answer? Nope! However it is a good start and in a month when this gets past we can fight for other things. Liberals are just sad. "Let me tell you this sad story about one person caused by my party, and screw the sad story of other guy." Either everyone is helped or no one is right Liberals? Unless you guys are the ones doing the screwing right?

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Here you go you can look at all the polls in the last year if you want.

http://www.sfu.ca/~aheard/elections/polls.html

Only 50% of people vote undecideds usually don't vote in Canada that is life. I know the Liberals keep telling me they didn't want to work on EI but I wasn't in those meetings. However I did see the Liberals quit the meetings halfway through the summer while the Cons kept meeting even though the Liberals didn't show up. Then they came out with an extension to EI costing a billion dollars which helps 200,000 Canadians. Then I saw the Liberals vote against not because it wouldn't help but becuase they couldn't claim victory. SHAME is all I have to say.

As for qualification hours THAT IS A LIBERAL LAW! Plan and simple there are many Liberals still in parliament who voted for those very rules as the NDP voted against is and fought it. Like I said this is a good start. It is better those people falling off EI stay on it while they try to get a job then to go an election the Liberals lose and those 200,000 people fall off of EI and people get screwed on minimum hours. Is it the final answer? Nope! However it is a good start and in a month when this gets past we can fight for other things. Liberals are just sad. "Let me tell you this sad story about one person caused by my party, and screw the sad story of other guy." Either everyone is helped or no one is right Liberals? Unless you guys are the ones doing the screwing right?

So what if it was a Liberal law that was passed years ago. The fact is it was wrong and deserves to be fixed. You can't just say well it was a LIBERAL who did it therefore it can't be fixed by a Liberal. If you haven't noticed, things have kind of changed since then. As for the rest of your post, wading through the grammatical land mine you laid down was difficult enough only to find out that there really wasn't any argument behind it anyway, just baseless accusations against Liberals. As for "fighting for other things," you must be crazy to think Harper is going to give them to you. He waited for this exact opportunity. If the NDP starts to demand more Harper is just going to claim he's already compromised enough. He wants an election, too. This will give him the perfect opportunity to pull the plug because god knows he's always itching to go after the Liberals. As for me, I didn't think the NDP would be stupid enough to step into that trap. Oh wait, nevermind, I just thought of the party's platform. Makes perfect sense right now.

As for the shame part, you wouldn't happen to be a member of the University of Toronto Student Union, would you?

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So what if it was a Liberal law that was passed years ago. The fact is it was wrong and deserves to be fixed. You can't just say well it was a LIBERAL who did it therefore it can't be fixed by a Liberal. If you haven't noticed, things have kind of changed since then. As for the rest of your post, wading through the grammatical land mine you laid down was difficult enough only to find out that there really wasn't any argument behind it anyway, just baseless accusations against Liberals. As for "fighting for other things," you must be crazy to think Harper is going to give them to you. He waited for this exact opportunity. If the NDP starts to demand more Harper is just going to claim he's already compromised enough. He wants an election, too. This will give him the perfect opportunity to pull the plug because god knows he's always itching to go after the Liberals. As for me, I didn't think the NDP would be stupid enough to step into that trap. Oh wait, nevermind, I just thought of the party's platform. Makes perfect sense right now.

As for the shame part, you wouldn't happen to be a member of the University of Toronto Student Union, would you?

I am saying I don't trust the same people that created the law to fix it. The NDP told the Liberals when they changed the EI rules it this was going to happen and the told the NDP to go shove it. I am not dumb, fool me once shame on you.

As for Harper I don't think he will give us anything else, however that does not mean we shouldn't go for this. It is a poor arguement. "Harper is giving us something that is good for Canadians but in the future he might not....maybe...better vote against him now." Honestly the Liberals are just being silly on this. There will plenty of time for Iggy to have his shot at Harper and lose I promise lets get this billion for unemployed workers first ok? Then the Liberals can lose an election and give Harper another 6 months to pass anything he wants in the house while the Liberals regroup and raise money.

Nope I am done school and I tried to get out of my Union because they didn't do what a union should do. They weren't a union they were a shitty school government.

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For the most part, they aren't the same people.

Geoff Regan

Keith Martin

Peter Milliken

Joe Volpe

Wayne Easter

Derek Lee

Hedy Fry

Mauril Bélanger

Gerry Byrne

Ralph Goodale

John Cannis

Maria Minna

Jim Karygiannis

Maurizio Bevilacqua

Bernard Patry

Gurbax Malhi

Lawrence MacAulay

Stéphane Dion

Albina Guarnieri

25% of the Liberal Caucus are the same people and I bet not one would say they made the wrong call. Fool me once.

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25% is a pretty small number. Not that I say their decision was wrong, I just think that you're seeing people that aren't there.

25% is quite a big number actually. You might forget this but it is the percent of the vote the Liberal Party got last election. Not to mention people Like Mike Savage who wasn't in government at the time still to this day defends the decision as the right decision basically saying if it came to a vote today he would have made the same vote. PS he is your guy on EI eh? Same Liberal party with the same members. Fool me once.

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It probably was the right decision. As Gary Doer implied, all the NDP has right now is Ivory Towers, and they have no real influence most of the time. They can say what they want, whether it works or doesn't, whether it's affordable or isn't. The Liberals (and Conservatives) have mad decisions in government tat you may not agree with, but they are decisions that have to be made when you are the government. They aren't necessarily the wrong decisions either. People can disagree with you (or me) and still be right.

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It probably was the right decision. As Gary Doer implied, all the NDP has right now is Ivory Towers, and they have no real influence most of the time. They can say what they want, whether it works or doesn't, whether it's affordable or isn't. The Liberals (and Conservatives) have mad decisions in government tat you may not agree with, but they are decisions that have to be made when you are the government. They aren't necessarily the wrong decisions either. People can disagree with you (or me) and still be right.

The Liberal party today is telling me it was the wrong decision. Again it was one of those things the NDP was right on and it only took the Liberals 15 years to figure it out. I think I am going to vote for the party who was right the first time. All the Liberals have is "the NDP have been in power" ok fine give them a chance then lets see what happens.

I agree there are plenty of ways to do things. I think the Liberals made the wrong decision on their way to do it.

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Let's see; how many times the libs ended up propping up the Cons (even voting or abstaining against bills they were against) -73

the NDP for something they support - 1.

Let's face it, the Liberals are the ones that have kept the Cons in power; not the NDP for most of Harper's run as PM. I can't see the NDP voting 73 times in a row to keep the Cons in power and I can't see them voting for something that they are against, so this will be short-lived.

I see incrediable animosity toward the NDP from Liberal supports and their friends in the MSM because they know that to have any chance to win; they need to grab some of that NDP support. So we will hear it all from the Liberals and their supporters about how bad the NDP and how irrelevant they are. They will spin like you have never seen; in fact after hearing all the spin, you would think that horns grew out of Layton's head. I hope the Canadian public will see through this and punish the Liberals for it.

For a supposedly irrelevant party, they are getting quite the attention from their detractors and the MSM.

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Let's face it, the Liberals are the ones that have kept the Cons in power; not the NDP for most of Harper's run as PM. I can't see the NDP voting 73 times in a row to keep the Cons in power and I can't see them voting for something that they are against, so this will be short-lived.

A future election rests in the NDP's hands.

As I said, I think the Tories will test the resolve of the NDP with a few well placed kicks to the the balls.

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I've been a strong NDP supporter for a long time, and will not vote for them federally again if they do not bring down Harper at the next opportunity. The EI bill IS crumbs. If c-15 passes the senate while we are waiting for the next chance to bring down Harper I will NEVER vote NDP again. The NDP will pay dearly for propping up the conservatives the ONLY time their vote would have actually mattered. This is a very partisan NDP member writing this and many feel just like I do. I am seriously thinking of supporting the Liberals, which is a position I would NEVER imagined I'd take even a couple of weeks ago. Jack pussied out and sold out his principles, and in doing so kept a very Harmful government in a position to further damage Canada.

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I've been a strong NDP supporter for a long time, and will not vote for them federally again if they do not bring down Harper at the next opportunity. The EI bill IS crumbs. If c-15 passes the senate while we are waiting for the next chance to bring down Harper I will NEVER vote NDP again. The NDP will pay dearly for propping up the conservatives the ONLY time their vote would have actually mattered. This is a very partisan NDP member writing this and many feel just like I do. I am seriously thinking of supporting the Liberals, which is a position I would NEVER imagined I'd take even a couple of weeks ago. Jack pussied out and sold out his principles, and in doing so kept a very Harmful government in a position to further damage Canada.

If I was poisoned enough not to vote NDP, one thing i would not do is vote Liberal. How many harmful bills have passed during Harper's run because the Liberals did not think they could win an election during these times. As much as i dislike the Cons and personally believe that Harper's govt. is one of the worst in history, I could never vote for the arrogant Liberals who believe they should be in power as a divine right. If it ever came down that I couldn't vote for the NDP, then I would either vote for no one or spoil my ballot (and as for the Greens; once they decided they were against the seal hunt; then I couldn't vote for them.)

Edited by Rovik
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If I was poisoned enough not to vote NDP, one thing i would not do is vote Liberal. How many harmful bills have passed during Harper's run because the Liberals did not think they could win an election during these times. As much as i dislike the Cons and personally believe that Harper's govt. is one of the worst in history, I could never vote for the arrogant Liberals who believe they should be in power as a divine right. If it ever came down that I couldn't vote for the NDP, then I would either vote for no one or spoil my ballot (and as for the Greens; once they decided they were against the seal hunt; then I couldn't vote for them.)

wasting a vote on a fringe party is just stupid. Vote for the candidate with the best chance of defeating the conservative candidate. The Liberals would be a hell of a lot better than the Harper government. The very worst thing for Canada is any more time under a \Harper government. It is only vote splitting amongst the left that keeps electing Harper.

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wasting a vote on a fringe party is just stupid. Vote for the candidate with the best chance of defeating the conservative candidate. The Liberals would be a hell of a lot better than the Harper government. The very worst thing for Canada is any more time under a \Harper government. It is only vote splitting amongst the left that keeps electing Harper.

Harper and Iggy are the same person Greenthumb the right are the ones splitting their votes.

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The support for the Tories may be for the "people" but what if it was for all those new 74 politicans could lose their golden pensions IF they don't have their 6 years in to be able to collect their pensions at 55!! I sure if Tories are nearing that 6 years and the NDP, kinda makes their games change a voter view. Think about.

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