"We Can Do Better"

[August1991]

The website is booked, but it remains uncertain if the Liberals own www.wecandobetter.ca, or not. The site was registered on September 2nd, and is listed as being under construction. The Liberal Party of Canada website is registered at Domains at Cost, with John Arnold listed as the contact and the address is listed as Liberal Party headquarters in Ottawa. The www.wecandobetter.ca site is registered at Webnames.ca, and there are no listings as to who is the registered owner.

Link

In French, it's barely better: Nous méritons mieux. Link

(I think Harper`s Conservatives used a similar slogan in French in 2004. On demande mieux ?)

Anyway.

IMV, and I stand corrected, the English slogan is bad. Link

First of all, the Canadian people are doing very well, or as best we can do. It is our politicians who can presumably do better. The Liberal slogan presumptively confuses "we the people" and "we the politicians". Is Ignatieff blaming "we the people"?

Secondly, Ignatieff already sounds like a professor/teacher. What genius devised a slogan that sounds like the teacher's comment on a report card of a pupil? "Mary can do better." This slogan merely makes Ignatieff look like an admonishing teacher.

If we have a federal election, I bet the Liberals jettison their English slogan quickly.

Edited September 11, 2009 by August1991

[punked]

It is a great slogan it helped win Kennedy the 1960 election. Problem here is Mr. Kennedy could do better, I come a family of Kennedy Democrats my Grandmother was very disappointed in Mr. Ignatieff when he said this the first time now she is just angry.

[nicky10013]

Link

In French, it's barely better: Nous méritons mieux. Link

(I think Harper`s Conservatives used a similar slogan in French in 2004. On demande mieux ?)

Anyway.

IMV, and I stand corrected, the English slogan is bad. Link

First of all, the Canadian people are doing very well, or as best we can do. It is our politicians who can presumably do better. The Liberal slogan presumptively confuses "we the people" and "we the politicians". Is Ignatieff blaming "we the people"?

Secondly, Ignatieff already sounds like a professor/teacher. What genius devised a slogan that sounds like the teacher's comment on a report card of a pupil? "Mary can do better." This slogan merely makes Ignatieff look like an admonishing teacher.

If we have a federal election, I bet the Liberals jettison their English slogan quickly.

You're comments could easily apply to "yes we can." According to your definition, you could easily spin it equally as vague as "we can do better." In the end, I think "yes we can" found such success because people wanted to hope for a realistic change in government; away from the negative and deceitful Bush government to something more positive; that the government with the help of citizens can work together to make their nation a better place. Whether it works as well here it's exactly the same message Ignatieff wants to get out. It's a direct reference to Obama and considering Obama is the politician with the highest approval rating in Canada it may well turn out to be a smart move. Just trying to spin it as something so vague and even attempting to say that the Liberals are blaming Canadians or admonishing us somehow is quite the reach.

Also, Ignatieff is not Kennedy. However, to say that he isn't capable of enacting change in government is a little premature. Harper has proven that, he's had time in office. Mr. Ignatieff deserves his time as well before such judgments can be made.

Edited September 11, 2009 by nicky10013

[August1991]

It is a great slogan it helped win Kennedy the 1960 election.

I'll ignore many of the incongruities of that comment and Ignatieff's situation and instead note that Kennedy won the 1960 election by a very slim margin.

If I were picking a winning slogan, I wouldn't use a Kennedy 1960 slogan.

You're comments could easily apply to "yes we can." According to your definition, you could easily spin it equally as vague as "we can do better." In the end, I think "yes we can" found such success because people wanted to hope for a realistic change in government; away from the negative and deceitful Bush government to something more positive; that the government with the help of citizens can work together to make their nation a better place.

And if you were an American, this "Yes we can" slogan seems to have worked - to a degree.

But Nicky, Ignatieff is a candidate in Canada, not America. And the slogan is destined to English Canadians - not Americans.

Edited September 11, 2009 by August1991

[punked]

Also, Ignatieff is not Kennedy. However, to say that he isn't capable of enacting change in government is a little premature. Harper has proven that, he's had time in office. Mr. Ignatieff deserves his time as well before such judgments can be made.

This statement shows the gull of some Liberals. The PMO's office is something you get by having the backing of the Canadian people. The Liberals don't just get their "turn" because someone else has been in office for a set amount of time. If Mr. Ignatieff wants it he better prove he deserves it becuase the slogan "We are Liberals come on it is our turn now!" Wont fly.

[bush_cheney2004]

....But Nicky, Ignatieff is a candidate in Canada, not America. And the slogan is destined to English Canadians - not Americans.

Maybe Ignatieff has forgotten when to use his American cloaking device....and when not.

[jdobbin]

If we have a federal election, I bet the Liberals jettison their English slogan quickly.

I wonder if you will be happy with the Conservative slogan Probably.

[August1991]

I wonder if you will be happy with the Conservative slogan Probably.

A typical Liberal response - shift the argument elsewhere.

Dobbin, the thread is about the federal Liberal slogan - not a potential federal Tory slogan.

I happen to think that the federal Liberal English language slogan is dumb. (Really dumb.) I predict that if we have an election, the Liberals will change their slogan.

First of all, the current slogan implies that all Canadians can do better.

Secondly, the slogan also reminds many English Canadians of teacher comments, and reminds them that Ignatieff is a teacher.

----

Dobbin, you can try to change the subject but whatever the Conservative slogan, this Liberal slogan is dumb.

[Smallc]

First of all, the current slogan implies that all Canadians can do better.

No, it doesn't. It speaks to the country as a whole being able to do better as a whole, whether it's on foreign affairs, job creation, or social programming. Ignatieff believes that a government under him could do better for this country than one under Harper. You don't have to believe that he can, but it doesn't really strike me as a reason to say that the slogan is stupid.

[Smallc]

BTW, we can do better has been the slogan since the Ignatieff took over as Liberal leader.

[August1991]

No, it doesn't. It speaks to the country as a whole being able to do better as a whole, whether it's on foreign affairs, job creation, or social programming.

"Country as a whole"? So, Canadians can do better.

Is Ignatieff blaming ordinary Canadians for this situation? We can do better?

[Smallc]

"Country as a whole"? So, Canadians can do better.

No, I think it's more in reference to the leadership role of the Government of Canada.

[August1991]

No, I think it's more in reference to the leadership role of the Government of Canada.

So, according to your logic Smallc, the Liberal slogan "We" includes the Canadian State, its government and its people. "We can do better" is a reference to Canada itself. "We can do better" refers to both the federal Liberal Party and Canada.

According to you, smallc: Canada = Federal Liberal Party

======

Minute, papillon.

First, IMV, the Liberal Party slogan is bad in Englsih Canada.

Second, for a federalist, Canada must be something greater than the Liberal Party.

Edited September 11, 2009 by August1991

[g_bambino]

So, according to your logic Smallc, the Liberal slogan "We" includes the Canadian State, its government and its people. "We can do better" is a reference to Canada itself.

The government is not Canada.

[August1991]

The government is not Canada.

And neither is the State.

Canada?

Canada is, well, Canada. The people who live here, I guess.

[jdobbin]

A typical Liberal response - shift the argument elsewhere.

Typical Tory response. Deflect when the mirror is put in front of you.

Dobbin, the thread is about the federal Liberal slogan - not a potential federal Tory slogan.

And why not? Why can't we talk about the Tory slogan? Will it be the same ones that they tried to do on government and Tory websites in the past?

I happen to think that the federal Liberal English language slogan is dumb. (Really dumb.) I predict that if we have an election, the Liberals will change their slogan.

But you'll probably think the Tory one is brilliant, simply brilliant!

First of all, the current slogan implies that all Canadians can do better.

Secondly, the slogan also reminds many English Canadians of teacher comments, and reminds them that Ignatieff is a teacher.

And you liked the Tory slogan last time of True North Strong and Free?

Given that you think the north is a big white waste of time, I hope not.

Dobbin, you can try to change the subject but whatever the Conservative slogan, this Liberal slogan is dumb.

Any more dumb than calling yourself Canada's new government for more than two years?

Edited September 11, 2009 by jdobbin

[Smallc]

According to you, smallc: Canada = Federal Liberal Party

That was some convoluted logic you used to get to that conclusion. The we in this case, is the Government of Canada. The Liberals, under Ignatieff, feel that they can do a better job than the Conservatives as the Government of Canada, quite separate from the Canadian State I might add. The Prime Minister and the Liberal party can never be head of the Canadian State.

[Smallc]

Given that you think the north is a big white waste of time, I hope not.

Wow...I think I'll save that and laugh at it some more later.

[kimmy]

IMV, and I stand corrected, the English slogan is bad. Link

First of all, the Canadian people are doing very well, or as best we can do. It is our politicians who can presumably do better. The Liberal slogan presumptively confuses "we the people" and "we the politicians". Is Ignatieff blaming "we the people"?

Well, it's better than "Choose your Canada."

I think, as Nicky suggests, it may be a clumsy attempt to reference the "Yes We Can" slogan.

"We" is perhaps intended to create the feeling of a team or common purpose, as the Democrats seemed to have created among their supporters. But when I hear it, I hear "We Liberals can do better than those Conservatives."

(If "We" is intended to include we the voters, then yes, I guess the implication is that we collectively are underachieving. I don't particularly care for the implication. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm pretty much on a roll. )

"Yes We Can" was a wonderful slogan, but not because of any specific meaning or promise. Precisely the opposite, in fact. "Yes We Can" works because of a feeling it invokes. It is unabashedly positive, it is a defiant answer to any of a million admonishments that start with "You can't..." It's a phrase that asks to be shouted, or at least delivered with confidence. It invites the hearer and the speaker to wonder at the possibilities of all the things "we can" do. Its simplicity both conceals and creates its power.

"We can do better" doesn't invoke a feeling. It's rather inelegant. It only invites the hearer and the speaker to wonder "better than what?" It doesn't lend itself to being shouted, or stated with cocky confidence... I personally picture some guy who's just been dumped dismissing his former girlfriend with "meh, I could do better."

If the intent is to say "we Liberals can do better than those Conservatives," then it's ... well, mediocre. If it's an attempt to create a feeling of unity and purpose and positive feeling and so-on that "Yes We Can" somehow condensed, well, it misses that target completely.

-k

[noahbody]

BTW, we can do better has been the slogan since the Ignatieff took over as Liberal leader.

How fitting.

[bush_cheney2004]

BTW, we can do better has been the slogan since the Ignatieff took over as Liberal leader.

Right...he obviously meant better than Stephane Dion.

[g_bambino]

And neither is the State.

Then the government is not the state, either.

[Wild Bill]

"We can do better" doesn't invoke a feeling. It's rather inelegant. It only invites the hearer and the speaker to wonder "better than what?" It doesn't lend itself to being shouted, or stated with cocky confidence... I personally picture some guy who's just been dumped dismissing his former girlfriend with "meh, I could do better."

If the intent is to say "we Liberals can do better than those Conservatives," then it's ... well, mediocre. If it's an attempt to create a feeling of unity and purpose and positive feeling and so-on that "Yes We Can" somehow condensed, well, it misses that target completely.

-k

Yeah, it does look like once again a Canadian party is trying to copy a successful American slogan and losing something as they paraphrase it.

Sort of like "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" versus "Peace, Order and Good Government".

The first is inspirational, suggesting embracing Life and the World. Our slogan makes me think of staying home in a cozy den, never doing much and certainly not anything risky!

[Dave_ON]

Yeah, it does look like once again a Canadian party is trying to copy a successful American slogan and losing something as they paraphrase it.

Sort of like "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" versus "Peace, Order and Good Government".

The first is inspirational, suggesting embracing Life and the World. Our slogan makes me think of staying home in a cozy den, never doing much and certainly not anything risky!

Ours is not a copy of the American motto. We are vastly different countries and I think that both are representative of our respective values.

On the issue of the slogan I don't believe it's the best slogan in the world, but I also think that, per usual with all things Liberal August is over parsing it. As with all things you have to take it in the context in which it was said. It was said after a long list of CPC shortfalls. It's not blaming the Canadian people in the least, but rather setting the focus on the CPC's lack of initiative, leadership and action on important national matters.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Ours is not a copy of the American motto. We are vastly different countries and I think that both are representative of our respective values.

On the issue of the slogan I don't believe it's the best slogan in the world, but I also think that, per usual with all things Liberal August is over parsing it. As with all things you have to take it in the context in which it was said. It was said after a long list of CPC shortfalls. It's not blaming the Canadian people in the least, but rather setting the focus on the CPC's lack of initiative, leadership and action on important national matters.

I like the slogan, its simple and to the point. Consider that the country needs solutions to problems. When you think about it, there are many things that many folks think should have been done better. The slogan says that.