This is not helping the peace process

[GostHacked]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/09/07/...tion/index.html

So much for a freeze on building illegal settlements on Palestinian land.

The Jewish settlements are spread throughout the Palestinian West Bank. Israel maintains the settlements are needed to accommodate growth from residents of existing settlements.

Do these kinds of actions garner them more peace? Or more land? Any bets on as soon as they are built and occupied, attacks are going to happen on them from the Palestinians. But this another way they can cry victim after the attacks. It has been seen and done before.

This exansion is not about security or peace. It is to provide the rising jewish population a place to live and grow in the West Bank.

Israel knows this will not help out with security between the jewish and palestinians, and it puts them more at risk. Why even take that chance? I just don't understand this.

[wulf42]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/09/07/...tion/index.html

So much for a freeze on building illegal settlements on Palestinian land.

Do these kinds of actions garner them more peace? Or more land? Any bets on as soon as they are built and occupied, attacks are going to happen on them from the Palestinians. But this another way they can cry victim after the attacks. It has been seen and done before.

This exansion is not about security or peace. It is to provide the rising jewish population a place to live and grow in the West Bank.

Israel knows this will not help out with security between the jewish and palestinians, and it puts them more at risk. Why even take that chance? I just don't understand this.

The Pals will be at war with the Israeli's no matter what they do.............so the Israeli's might as well do whatever they want!

[Guest American Woman]

So much for a freeze on building illegal settlements on Palestinian land.

Do these kinds of actions garner them more peace? Or more land? Any bets on as soon as they are built and occupied, attacks are going to happen on them from the Palestinians. But this another way they can cry victim after the attacks. It has been seen and done before.

This exansion is not about security or peace. It is to provide the rising jewish population a place to live and grow in the West Bank.

Israel knows this will not help out with security between the jewish and palestinians, and it puts them more at risk. Why even take that chance? I just don't understand this.

I can't imagine being an Israeli and wanting to live in the new settlements as I think things there will be more volatile.

Seems a lot of people don't approve of Israel's actions regarding these new settlements, including the United States:

Increasingly fractious relations between the US and Israel hit a low unseen in nearly two decades yesterday after the Jewish state rejected President Obama's demand for an end to settlement construction in the West Bank, and the president responded by suggesting that Israeli intransigence endangers America's security.

The dispute ... reflects the depth of the shift in US policy away from accommodating Israel, and towards pressuring it to end years of stalling negotiations over the creation of a Palestinian state ...

link

[DogOnPorch]

I can't imagine being an Israeli and wanting to live in the new settlements as I think things there will be more volatile.

Seems a lot of people don't approve of Israel's actions regarding these new settlements, including the United States:

Increasingly fractious relations between the US and Israel hit a low unseen in nearly two decades yesterday after the Jewish state rejected President Obama's demand for an end to settlement construction in the West Bank, and the president responded by suggesting that Israeli intransigence endangers America's security.

The dispute ... reflects the depth of the shift in US policy away from accommodating Israel, and towards pressuring it to end years of stalling negotiations over the creation of a Palestinian state ...

link

You have to want to experience a certain type of religious pain/hardship to want to move to a place like Hebron and practice Judaism.

Edited September 7, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[GostHacked]

You have to want to experience a certain type of religious pain/hardship to want to move to a place like Hebron and practice Judaism.

It definately seems counter productive, and if you are willing to do that, then you are also willing to suffer whatever consequences that come with it. What makes them go do that in the first place?

[Guest American Woman]

And to bring children into it, and subject them to the dangers, is even more difficult to understand.

[DogOnPorch]

It definately seems counter productive, and if you are willing to do that, then you are also willing to suffer whatever consequences that come with it. What makes them go do that in the first place?

Burial place of Abraham. Second most sacred place in Judaism...and figures high in Islam as well as Abraham is somewhat of a 'hijacked' prophet in their faith.

[Moonlight Graham]

yup this won't things a bit.

[Alex Moore]

It definately seems counter productive, and if you are willing to do that, then you are also willing to suffer whatever consequences that come with it. What makes them go do that in the first place?

The settlers mentality is that this is their land and that the Palestinians are occupying, to them they are reclaiming Israel territory.

[eyeball]

The settlers mentality is that this is their land and that the Palestinians are occupying, to them they are reclaiming Israel territory.

Yep...this conflict is simply about real estate, the rest is just ammunition.

[DogOnPorch]

Speaking of real estate...Google Earth's 2009 image of Gaza/Israel shows The Strip to be very much in one piece with actual battle damage VERY hard to locate...unlike former Israeli greenhouses which have remained in ruins since 2005 when they were destroyed by hot-heads even though they provided employment for thousands of Gaza residents. Seems the outrageous Stalingrad-like claims first reported re: 'the destruction' have been somewhat Pallywooded-up for our benefit.

Google Maps has a lower res version you can check-out.

Edited October 2, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[naomiglover]

Speaking of real estate...Google Earth's 2009 image of Gaza/Israel shows The Strip to be very much in one piece with actual battle damage VERY hard to locate...unlike former Israeli greenhouses which have remained in ruins since 2005 when they were destroyed by hot-heads even though they provided employment for thousands of Gaza residents. Seems the outrageous Stalingrad-like claims first reported re: 'the destruction' have been somewhat Pallywooded-up for our benefit.

Google Maps has a lower res version you can check-out.

Or you can show a map where they have been hit instead of this vague map from google that doesn't really prove or disprove anything and then giving everyone an assertion that it's all made up and Gaza wasn't really hit. I guess you're another one of those who thinks judge Goldstone, who is Jewish like you, but is well respected and has accomplished amazing things in his life, like being the lead prosecutor in tribunals for Rwanda and Yugoslavia, is a liar. Who was also "a member of the International Panel of the Commission of Enquiry into the Activities of Nazism in Argentina (CEANA) which was established in 1997 to identify Nazi war criminals who had emigrated to Argentina." This guy is a liar and hates Jews.

You seem like you would go to any length to change a person's mind. All options are on the table for you.

Here is a good page to see where Israel hit Gaza:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7812136.stm

Edited October 2, 2009 by naomiglover

[naomiglover]

Here is a google map of the settlements that are not helping the peace process:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&amp...mp;source=embed

Illegal settlements that are backed by the Israeli government.

[DogOnPorch]

Or you can show a map where they have been hit instead of this vague map from google that doesn't really prove or disprove anything and then giving everyone an assertion that it's all made up and Gaza wasn't really hit.

Google Earth is a lot of things...vague isn't one of them. You can spot cats sitting on fences. Less than a year since suffering destruction on a level of the Warsaw Ghetto or Stalingrad, I'm unable to find evidence of this major destruction. This tells me that the Israelis were telling the truth re: limiting collateral damage. Your map of Gaza from BBC makes Gaza look like it was carpet bombed end to end by countless B-52 sorties. Now that's vague.

If you have a good computer with a nice sized video card, Google Earth v.5 is available for free download.

http://earth.google.com/

But, I know the imaginary map you've created via your personal opinion and news stories is going to be the one you reference as the TRUTH. You'll simply ignore this information as it doesn't suit your political goals re: your apparent fellow country-mates or the beloved terrorists, Hamas.

I guess you're another one of those who thinks judge Goldstone, who is Jewish like you, but is well respected and has accomplished amazing things in his life, like being the lead prosecutor in tribunals for Rwanda and Yugoslavia, is a liar. Who was also "a member of the International Panel of the Commission of Enquiry into the Activities of Nazism in Argentina (CEANA) which was established in 1997 to identify Nazi war criminals who had emigrated to Argentina." This guy is a liar and hates Jews.

Jewish like me? I'm certainly not Jewish. Mr Goldstone got the guided Hamas tour where I'm sure he was given completely accurate information re: The Battle of the Somme which was apparently fought in Gaza as opposed to France.

You seem like you would go to any length to change a person's mind. All options are on the table for you.

You seem like a terrorist supporter pretending to be 'Israeli'.

Here is a good page to see where Israel hit Gaza:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7812136.stm

This is the vague map I'm refering to. Other vague maps also exist showing MASSIVE destruction. Google Earth and Maps do not support these fanciful creations.

Edited October 2, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[naomiglover]

Google Earth is a lot of things...vague isn't one of them. You can spot cats sitting on fences. Less than a year since suffering destruction on a level of the Warsaw Ghetto or Stalingrad, I'm unable to find evidence of this major destruction. This tells me that the Israelis were telling the truth re: limiting collateral damage. Your map of Gaza from BBC makes Gaza look like it was carpet bombed end to end by countless B-52 sorties. Now that's vague.

Actually, after matching the map from BBC where it shows where most of the attacks occurred and the google map, even though it's pretty far away, you can still see the obvious destruction.

But, I know the imaginary map you've created via your personal opinion and news stories is going to be the one you reference as the TRUTH. You'll simply ignore this information as it doesn't suit your political goals re: your apparent fellow country-mates or the beloved terrorists, Hamas.

There is no imagery map. There are countless videos and photos showing the destruction. There are still people living in tents and are unable to rebuild their homes.

I guess you are saying that the Goldstone report and the other reports and all these videos are imaginary. There is a big conspiracy against Israel and everything is made up. Dancer says he uses tinfoil for only cooking. It seems like you use it for a lot more.

Jewish like me? I'm certainly not Jewish.

Okay. I thought I saw that it was mentioned that you were.

Mr Goldstone got the guided Hamas tour where I'm sure he was given completely accurate information re: The Battle of the Somme which was apparently fought in Gaza as opposed to France.

Goldstone is a professional and is experienced. Your accusation that he can't do his job and has fallen for a staged destruction is unbelievable. I still have not had a chance to read the whole report. It's a lot of pages, but if you look at the report, the evidence is there to see and extremely difficult to dispute. But Israel has been given the opportunity to respond to the evidence and the report and they have refused to. If Israel believes it is innocent, why not set up an independent investigation to prove to the whole world that it is right and that all of these organizations who have found Israel to be guilty of war crimes are wrong?

You seem like a terrorist supporter pretending to be 'Israeli'.

I do not appreciate this comment. You will be reported.

This is the vague map I'm refering to. Other vague maps also exist showing MASSIVE destruction. Google Earth and Maps do not support these fanciful creations.

You are not proving anything with your post. The evidence is there in videos, photos and testimonies.

Hamas cannot fake destruction like this: http://multimedia.boston.com/m/21769532/ga...ion.htm?q=strip

It's time to admit that it's real. Your denial is as embarrassing to witness as watching someone who tries to deny the holocaust.

[M.Dancer]

I do not appreciate this comment. You will be reported.

Oh noooooos

[naomiglover]

Here is the Hamas tour:

[DogOnPorch]

Actually, after matching the map from BBC where it shows where most of the attacks occurred and the google map, even though it's pretty far away, you can still see the obvious destruction.

There is no imagery map. There are countless videos and photos showing the destruction. There are still people living in tents and are unable to rebuild their homes.

I guess you are saying that the Goldstone report and the other reports and all these videos are imaginary. There is a big conspiracy against Israel and everything is made up. Dancer says he uses tinfoil for only cooking. It seems like you use it for a lot more.

Okay. I thought I saw that it was mentioned that you were.

Goldstone is a professional and is experienced. Your accusation that he can't do his job and has fallen for a staged destruction is unbelievable. I still have not had a chance to read the whole report. It's a lot of pages, but if you look at the report, the evidence is there to see and extremely difficult to dispute. But Israel has been given the opportunity to respond to the evidence and the report and they have refused to. If Israel believes it is innocent, why not set up an independent investigation to prove to the whole world that it is right and that all of these organizations who have found Israel to be guilty of war crimes are wrong?

I do not appreciate this comment. You will be reported.

You are not proving anything with your post. The evidence is there in videos, photos and testimonies.

Hamas cannot fake destruction like this: http://multimedia.boston.com/m/21769532/ga...ion.htm?q=strip

It's time to admit that it's real. Your denial is as embarrassing to witness as watching someone who tries to deny the holocaust.

Like it or not, Google Earth shows none of this apparent destruction. So the only logical conclusion for you would be that Google is in league with the Zionist Entity.

[DogOnPorch]

Oh noooooos

Like you, I'm used to it. "Reporting people" is for those that belong on Babble.ca

[naomiglover]

Like it or not, Google Earth shows none of this apparent destruction. So the only logical conclusion for you would be that Google is in league with the Zionist Entity.

The proof is there and well-documented.

I guess it's Ahmadinejad's choice to stay in denial about the holocaust committed by the Nazis just like it's your choice to be in denial about Gaza's deaths and destruction committed by the Israel military.

[DogOnPorch]

The proof is there and well-documented.

Familiar with Pallywood? You can not trust anything that comes from Hamas/Hezbollah or their servents. This would include the UNHRC and their ilk...UNRWA, et al. So when I see 'destruction' in Gaza...I ask myself...what year did that occur? 1967? 1973? Yesterday? Or did Hamas blow up a building for the cameras and then place dead bodies in it like Hezbollah does...then along comes Mr Goldstone...shocked at the inhumanity of it all. Either way, Google Earth doesn't show this carnage on the same apparent scale as Verdun that folks like you like to put forth. What I see is a typical Arab city...run down and full of slums...and terrorists whom for some reason you wish to give a big hug. Makes me think you're not really an Israeli...and a Canadian in passport only.

I guess it's Ahmadinejad's choice to stay in denial about the holocaust committed by the Nazis just like it's your choice to be in denial about Gaza's deaths and destruction committed by the Israel military.

Ahmedinnerjacket is a Jew-baiting buffoon. But, he'd no doubt invite you to his conferences. You could stand next to Mr Duke and the 'real' Jews. Re: denial...you can't trust Hamas or Hezbollah to give a straight answer. Let me rephrase that: I can't trust them...you can. Give them a hug for me.

[M.Dancer]

Why this whining about buildings being destroyed? If the Arabs don't want they're buildings destroyed, don't provoke a war...it's not like any of this was a surprise, they were warned.

Anyway, the types of bombs that only kill and leave structures intact are banned by the Geneva convention. If they are ever used the mid east again, I have no doubts it won't be the Israelis using them first.

[DogOnPorch]

Why this whining about buildings being destroyed? If the Arabs don't want they're buildings destroyed, don't provoke a war...it's not like any of this was a surprise, they were warned.

Anyway, the types of bombs that only kill and leave structures intact are banned by the Geneva convention. If they are ever used the mid east again, I have no doubts it won't be the Israelis using them first.

Can't help noticing what I have seen. Google came out with the new image and I was there LOOKING for battle damage...but can't seem to locate the wholesale destruction of entire neighborhoods as advertised by the pro-terrorist crowd. Maybe if you have Google Earth, you could check for me...I must be missing something very obvious.

[M.Dancer]

...I must be missing something very obvious.

Yes, yes you are. You are missing the building here, the building there and the one just over past the falafel shop over there.

There was no carpet bombing or rug bombing or even parquet tile bombing.....the targets were selected and prioritized by importance. A building here, and there and over there.

Now bombs are smart, no matter what Wolf Blitzer tells you. They miss sometimes, sometimes the really miss. No one other that the Hamas propaganda brigade like civilian deaths, least of all children. On the otherhand no one in Gaza took any erffort to shield the civilians from the deadly fallout of war..they were too busy using the children as shields.

The whole Gaza war pisses me off. Why the Israelis stopped is beyond me. If I was surpeme leader of the elders of zion, I would occupy it and the beg the Egyptians to take it back.

[DogOnPorch]

Indeed...and as mentioned...the desert air preserves battle damage quite well. That shell hole in that building might very well come from 1973...or 1948...or 332BC.

This bugger has been sitting in place since 1967...great shape. Askin' $2200...lol.

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/10243907.jpg