Machjo Posted August 29, 2009 Report Posted August 29, 2009 I've noticed that Europeans seem to be much less dogmatic about capitalism and socialism than Canada. To take an example, Sweden has among the highest tax rates in the world, yet its government owns a smaller percentage of the country's GDP than the US government does of its! It also has proven open to school vouchers, more private sector involvement than Canada in health care, has no legal minimum wage, etc. Overall, it seems Sweden is much more open to experimentation between capitalism and socialism than is Canada. We find the same with France and it's two-tier system, also common across Europe, and other European countries using school vouchers or at least discussing them, etc. I get the impression that in Canada, this kind of experimentation is not possible owing to extreme capitalsim in the US. If for example, we should suggest introducing two-tier healthcare in Canada, the image that comes to most Canadians' minds is not the universal two-tier systms that are common in Europe, but the mostly private for-profit system in the US. If we should talk of school vouchers, most Canadians would not be thinking of Swedish or other European-style vouchers, but rather the proposals made by the Republican Party in the US for much less restrictive vouchers. It would seem that the proximity of the US along with its extreme capitalist system causes irrational fears in Canada against any kind of third-way experimentaiton between capitalism and socialism, which simply stunts any kind of brainstorm of new ideas to improve democracy in Canada. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
g_bambino Posted August 29, 2009 Report Posted August 29, 2009 It would seem that the proximity of the US along with its extreme capitalist system causes irrational fears in Canada against any kind of third-way experimentaiton between capitalism and socialism, which simply stunts any kind of brainstorm of new ideas to improve democracy in Canada. Isn't the relationship mutual, though? Regard how opponents of universal health care in the US point to Canada in order to raise irrational fears of an imagined extreme socialist system. (BTW, I think this thread was started in the wrong section. Should it not be in Canada/US relations?) Quote
Remiel Posted August 29, 2009 Report Posted August 29, 2009 (BTW, I think this thread was started in the wrong section. Should it not be in Canada/US relations?) (Or Political Philosophy.) Quote
Machjo Posted August 29, 2009 Author Report Posted August 29, 2009 Isn't the relationship mutual, though? Regard how opponents of universal health care in the US point to Canada in order to raise irrational fears of an imagined extreme socialist system. Agreed. (BTW, I think this thread was started in the wrong section. Should it not be in Canada/US relations?) Disagreed. The thread was about how US capitalism affects internal Canadian politics, not about our relationship with the US. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Machjo Posted August 29, 2009 Author Report Posted August 29, 2009 (Or Political Philosophy.) I'd say it has less to do with philosophy as such and more to do with mass psychology (i.e. how people react irrationally by assuming that if they adopt an idea that another country has adopted, that that means that they will go down the slippery slope of adopting all of the neighbouring country's ideas). Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
August1991 Posted August 29, 2009 Report Posted August 29, 2009 To take an example, Sweden has among the highest tax rates in the world, yet its government owns a smaller percentage of the country's GDP than the US government does of its!.... ... extreme capitalsim in the US. Huh?Define "extreme capitalism". Quote
Machjo Posted August 29, 2009 Author Report Posted August 29, 2009 Huh?Define "extreme capitalism". Sorry, my bad. I meant according to common Canadian perceptions, true or false. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
August1991 Posted August 29, 2009 Report Posted August 29, 2009 Sorry, my bad. I meant according to common Canadian perceptions, true or false.Define "common Canadian perceptions".(Uh, would those be the perceptioins that you would have a federal ministry of education determine?) Quote
Machjo Posted August 29, 2009 Author Report Posted August 29, 2009 Define "common Canadian perceptions".(Uh, would those be the perceptioins that you would have a federal ministry of education determine?) ? Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Jerry J. Fortin Posted August 29, 2009 Report Posted August 29, 2009 There is simply no doubt that America influences both the Canadian economy and the Canadian society in general. In political terms we have always been much different than America due to the nature of our political system, yet we are still heavily influenced by America. The smart move for Canada is to remain different from America. Quote
g_bambino Posted August 29, 2009 Report Posted August 29, 2009 The smart move for Canada is to remain different from America. Yet, in another thread you advocate for us to be more like them. Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted August 29, 2009 Report Posted August 29, 2009 Yet, in another thread you advocate for us to be more like them. Really? You mean shifting to a republican system? Quote
g_bambino Posted August 29, 2009 Report Posted August 29, 2009 Really? You mean shifting to a republican system? That would be the end result of what you advocate. Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted August 29, 2009 Report Posted August 29, 2009 That would be the end result of what you advocate. Certainly. A system far more developed with checks and balances including defined roles and responsibilities for government. Quote
Machjo Posted August 29, 2009 Author Report Posted August 29, 2009 The smart move for Canada is to remain different from America. No. The smart move would be for us to adopt good ideas no matter the source. Otherwise, if we took your idea to an extreme, then we should revert to driving on the opposite side of the road again, and should abandon voting for candidates in elections because the US does it too. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Machjo Posted August 29, 2009 Author Report Posted August 29, 2009 Certainly. A system far more developed with checks and balances including defined roles and responsibilities for government. That's not what you said though. You said: "The smart move for Canada is to remain different from America." Should that be a goal in its own right, then we ought to reject all ideas adopted by the US no matter how good just to be different. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Smallc Posted August 29, 2009 Report Posted August 29, 2009 We have to find our own way. Sometimes, good ideas from other places can be applied here. Sometimes, we have to do things for ourselves. A country isn't a plug and play environment where things can simply be tried on a whim. Quote
Machjo Posted August 29, 2009 Author Report Posted August 29, 2009 We have to find our own way. Sometimes, good ideas from other places can be applied here. Sometimes, we have to do things for ourselves. A country isn't a plug and play environment where things can simply be tried on a whim. Perhaps, but to have as our goalt to simply be different from another country is not a very well thought out goal. Our goal ought never to be to try to be the same as or different from another country. Our goal ought to be to adopt good ideas, regardless of where they come from. If that makes us different, so be it. If that makes us the same, so be it. But we should never have as our highest goal to just be different from another nation at all costs. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Smallc Posted August 29, 2009 Report Posted August 29, 2009 We do have to remain different from other places though also. We can't be just like another place...or we become them. Quote
Machjo Posted August 30, 2009 Author Report Posted August 30, 2009 We do have to remain different from other places though also. We can't be just like another place...or we become them. What I'm saying though is that we should never reject or adopt an idea just to be different. We should always adopt or reject an idea on its merits in serving the population. Imagine for a moment that Canada had everything in common with the US except universal compulsory education for all children. Would we reject the idea then just to ensure we had something different? Seeing that our geography is different from that of the US, that alone dictates different solutions to some problems, so I don't think we need to worry about becoming identical to the US. However, to have that as our primary goal, or to have that as an argument for or against an idea, woudl essentially make us dependent on the US in that we'd have to ensure they don't adopt good ideas so that we can adopt them. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
g_bambino Posted August 30, 2009 Report Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) Certainly. A system far more developed with checks and balances including defined roles and responsibilities for government. Actually, what you were suggesting was a system wherein everyone from the head of state on down to the local police is elected. Not exactly like the US, but much closer. Yet, you say we should remain distinct from the US. Quite the contradiction. [c/e] Edited August 30, 2009 by g_bambino Quote
g_bambino Posted August 30, 2009 Report Posted August 30, 2009 We should always adopt or reject an idea on its merits in serving the population. That's quite logical, and reminds me that, in relation to both Jerry's stance and the topic of this thread, the US, far from being a curse on Canadian political thought, was actually a blessing to it; the American republic offered the Fathers of Confederation much to contemplate, and its demonstrated strengths and weaknesses helped them form the system Jerry hates so much today. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Posted August 30, 2009 That's quite logical, and reminds me that, in relation to both Jerry's stance and the topic of this thread, the US, far from being a curse on Canadian political thought, was actually a blessing to it; the American republic offered the Fathers of Confederation much to contemplate.... ..and such blessings continued through repatriation of the constitution and birth of the Charter over 100 years later. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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