Good Integration

[fellowtraveller]

A lot of people speak about it, I'm curious to have your thoughts on that.

I would say that the immigrant has to:

Speak English (French if he's in Quebec in my opinion).

Know a little about Canada's culture (food, radio shows, t.v., history, politics, economy, geography)

Have Canadian friends.

Not only speak with people from his country of origin.

After a certain time feel Canadian (tough this is not the most important one).

Respect the law, if you don't respect it you could pay the consequences, whoever you are and wherever you're from.

--------

Also, do you think that to be Canadian you need to be White and Christian. I'm curious on that one.

Discuss.

None of the above.

I expect the same from an immigrant as I do from any citizen: work hard and pay taxes.

[Argus]

A lot of people speak about it, I'm curious to have your thoughts on that.

I would say that the immigrant has to:

Speak English (French if he's in Quebec in my opinion).

Know a little about Canada's culture (food, radio shows, t.v., history, politics, economy, geography)

Have Canadian friends.

Not only speak with people from his country of origin.

After a certain time feel Canadian (tough this is not the most important one).

Respect the law, if you don't respect it you could pay the consequences, whoever you are and wherever you're from.

I think the problem isn't immigrants that don't integrate. It's immigrants who are so opposed to integrating that even the children they raise in Canada are clearly and obviously foreigners in a foreign land, often having the same backwards, unsophisticated opniions as their parents,a and determined to revel in their ignorance. Such people resent Canadians and tend to blame all their problems on racism, but really, the problem is them.

[monkeyman]

I think the problem isn't immigrants that don't integrate. It's immigrants who are so opposed to integrating that even the children they raise in Canada are clearly and obviously foreigners in a foreign land, often having the same backwards, unsophisticated opniions as their parents,a and determined to revel in their ignorance. Such people resent Canadians and tend to blame all their problems on racism, but really, the problem is them.

Your brain is fucked my friend. I don't know where you live or what you eat, but you have serious issues. You should see a doctor in my opinion.

[Hydraboss]

...in my opinion.

That and $0.35 will get you a pay phone call.

[lictor616]

I think the problem isn't immigrants that don't integrate. It's immigrants who are so opposed to integrating that even the children they raise in Canada are clearly and obviously foreigners in a foreign land, often having the same backwards, unsophisticated opniions as their parents,a and determined to revel in their ignorance. Such people resent Canadians and tend to blame all their problems on racism, but really, the problem is them.

Well and this phenomenon is compounded by the liberal education. The effect of this multicultural double standard upbringing is that children (especially non-white children) are no longer encouraged to question their own assumptions and those of their parents and society. Children of immigrants must accept uncritically whatever it is they're being offered rather than the exercise of independent judgment. The Multiculturalist programme forces obedience to authority, the authority of the ethnic group.

An immigrant youth cannot be expected to be colour blind if we teach them that their identity is determined uniquely by the colour of their skin or their country of origin. How can we treat Canadians equally, when in actuality minority canadians are first class citizens with many privileges and advantages over "non-diverse" white canadians? Multiculturalism treats people as mere cyphers, or units of a minority group. Immigrant parents teach their children (as well as our media and educational system) to think of themselves as perpetual victims, and to be footsoldiers for their ethnicity (they teach their children to be proud of their non-white heritage, and to see themselves as "haitians, Pakistanis, Arab" before canadian... they teach them to be HYPHENATED canadians with no real loyalty to the country they reside in.

In a July 25, 2006, the Halifax Chronicle-Herald discussed the new phenomenon of homegrown terrorists. "Study: Conflict Likely Between Canada, Its Muslim Citizens."

in 2006 police arrested a group of young Muslims — "homegrown terrorists" — who were going to storm the Canadian Parliament, hold politicians hostage, and behead the prime minister. According to the Globe and Mail of June 29 2006, the wives of the four main conspirators shared "among other things, their passion for holy war, disgust at virtually every aspect of non-Muslim society and a hatred of Canada ."

How can one expect immigrants to integrate as individuals if one advocates multiculturalism? But then that isn't the idea, is it?

Edited August 25, 2009 by lictor616

[monkeyman]

Well and this phenomenon is compounded by the liberal education. The effect of this multicultural double standard upbringing is that children (especially non-white children) are no longer encouraged to question their own assumptions and those of their parents and society. Children of immigrants must accept uncritically whatever it is they're being offered rather than the exercise of independent judgment. The Multiculturalist programme forces obedience to authority, the authority of the ethnic group.

An immigrant youth cannot be expected to be colour blind if we teach them that their identity is determined uniquely by the colour of their skin or their country of origin. How can we treat Canadians equally, when in actuality minority canadians are first class citizens with many privileges and advantages over "non-diverse" white canadians? Multiculturalism treats people as mere cyphers, or units of a minority group. Immigrant parents teach their children (as well as our media and educational system) to think of themselves as perpetual victims, and to be footsoldiers for their ethnicity (they teach their children to be proud of their non-white heritage, and to see themselves as "haitians, Pakistanis, Arab" before canadian... they teach them to be HYPHENATED canadians with no real loyalty to the country they reside in.

In a July 25, 2006, the Halifax Chronicle-Herald discussed the new phenomenon of homegrown terrorists. "Study: Conflict Likely Between Canada, Its Muslim Citizens."

in 2006 police arrested a group of young Muslims — "homegrown terrorists" — who were going to storm the Canadian Parliament, hold politicians hostage, and behead the prime minister. According to the Globe and Mail of June 29 2006, the wives of the four main conspirators shared "among other things, their passion for holy war, disgust at virtually every aspect of non-Muslim society and a hatred of Canada ."

How can one expect immigrants to integrate as individuals if one advocates multiculturalism? But then that isn't the idea, is it?

Oh yeah???? Funny, I grew up in Montreal being little more tanned than White people and I feel 100% Canadian, my country (in my heart) is Canada. A lot of my friends have immigrants for parents and THEY FEEL Canadian. Some people will be born here and won't feel Canadian because of the education they received, IT SUCKS, I must confess. HOWEVER there is a HUGE majority of ethnic minorities that were born here and integrate REALLY WELL in the society. Why always look at the dark side of things ?

[Argus]

Oh yeah???? Funny, I grew up in Montreal being little more tanned than White people and I feel 100% Canadian, my country (in my heart) is Canada.

Yeah, that huge resentment you clearly have for white people - ie, the rest of us, not to mention your angry defense of Sharia law should be the clues to your Canadianism.

[lictor616]

Oh yeah???? Funny, I grew up in Montreal being little more tanned than White people and I feel 100% Canadian, my country (in my heart) is Canada. A lot of my friends have immigrants for parents and THEY FEEL Canadian. Some people will be born here and won't feel Canadian because of the education they received, IT SUCKS, I must confess. HOWEVER there is a HUGE majority of ethnic minorities that were born here and integrate REALLY WELL in the society. Why always look at the dark side of things ?

you're country "in you heart"

what does that even mean?

What does in your heart signifie... and you say you feel candian when you can't even define specifically what being canadian is!

A huge majority of ethnic minorities? Did you see the demographics for Ontario? Most neighborhood in the GTA for instance are RACIALLY SEGREGATED... you have one part this is majority Pakistani and Hindu (called BrownTown), there's the asian district, then there's little Jamaica (with suburbs higher then 90% black)... Montreal, same deal .. Montreal Nord (aka montreal NOIR) is heavily haitian, China town well.. lets is um awefully chinese, St Leonard is Greek/Italian, Westmount WASP/Jewish, Plateau, French and Quebecois... south shore? Greenfield park is indian/pakistani, Longueuil is almost divided in racial districts... I mean... were do you see these immigrants that "feel canada" by speaking non canadian languages, dressing in non canadian ways, eating non western foods, and by all accounts are at odds with most if not all of our mores and ways of looking at the world?

My guess is that you don't know what you're talking about.

[Remiel]

monkeyman, my advice to you is that you ignore lictor. No amount of reason will stem the flow of his stupidity.

[lictor616]

monkeyman, my advice to you is that you ignore lictor. No amount of reason will stem the flow of his stupidity.

did you have a refutation or any specific counter argument?... if not...then please retain sufficient decency to be quiet.

although I should say that Monkeyman would do well to ignore me... and I hope he does

[Remiel]

did you have a refutation or any specific counter argument?... if not...then please retain sufficient decency to be quiet.

I did, actually, but I thought better of wasting any more time dignifying you with debate.

[lictor616]

I did, actually, but I thought better of wasting any more time dignifying you with debate.

how arrogant and presumptuous on your part.

I received precisely the same answer from a Christian evangelical on the question on the existence of dinosaurs... he simply said that talking to such ogres as myself capable of believing that dinosaurs existed and were not merely "inventions of the devil" to "keep up distant from god" are not worth debating...

anyways, enjoy your obtuseness and lack of intellectual curiosity in debating with people with different views as you... stay in your cave, its way to bright outside.

Edited August 26, 2009 by lictor616

[Remiel]

how arrogant and presumptuous on your part.

Not presumptuous at all.

I received precisely the same answer from a Christian evangelical on the question on the existence of dinosaurs... he simply said that talking to such ogres as myself capable of believing that dinosaurs existed and were not merely "inventions of the devil" to "keep up distant from god" are not worth debating...

Did this evangelical already have experience trying to debate you or was his opinion informed by only a short meeting and conversation?

anyways, enjoy your obtuseness and lack of intellectual curiosity in debating with people with different views as you... stay in your cave, its way to bright outside.

Obtuse would be thinking that just because someone does not want to debate with you means that they do not want to debate with anyone with a differing opinion.

[lictor616]

Not presumptuous at all.

Saying that any debate is a foregone conclusion (before even knowing what the other person might say) and automatically assuming that because someone is of a different belief or "standpoint" that that person is automatically wrong, silly and unworthy of your time... and then acting as though they would be blessing and "dignifying" the person whom they are rejecting argument with... is indeed a little presumptuous isn't it?

either way why say it if your aim is to ignore me? why not be silent altogether? right?

Edited August 26, 2009 by lictor616

[lictor616]

monkeyman, my advice to you is that you ignore lictor. No amount of reason will stem the flow of his stupidity.

lol or to quote my personal favorite:

"The whole drift of our law is toward the absolute prohibition of all ideas that diverge in the slightest form from the accepted platitudes, and behind that drift of law there is a far more potent force of growing custom, and under that custom there is a natural philosophy which erects conformity into the noblest of virtues and the free functioning of personality into a capital crime against society."

-H. L. Mencken

maybe know you can see how I look at it...

[monkeyman]

Yeah, that huge resentment you clearly have for white people - ie, the rest of us, not to mention your angry defense of Sharia law should be the clues to your Canadianism.

#1, I have nothing against White people, friends, girl friend are all White people (most of them) 100% pure Canadians as you like it!

#2 I didn't defend the Sharia law, I said that you bring down the Sharia law to two elements that are not used by the HUGE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO USES it (HAND CUT OFF, LAPIDATION OF WOMEN) to show your hate towards Muslims. You said it's bad at 100%. I said it has no place in Canada (we agree on that), but it's not 100% bad, for example the heritage issue in the Sharia law is a good thing. But you must not know that you little mug.

There's a difference between being stupid and intelligent. Since you're an ignorant loser, you don't know what intelligence is

Edited August 26, 2009 by monkeyman

[August1991]

From what I can gather, this is a remarkably stupid thread but I noted this in the OP:

Know a little about Canada's culture (food, radio shows, t.v., history, politics, economy, geography)

It seems appropriate to post this youtube clip.

[lictor616]

#1, I have nothing against White people, friends, girl friend are all White people (most of them) 100% pure Canadians as you like it!

#2 I didn't defend the Sharia law, I said that you bring down the Sharia law to two elements that are not used by the HUGE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO USES it (HAND CUT OFF, LAPIDATION OF WOMEN) to show your hate towards Muslims. You said it's bad at 100%. I said it has no place in Canada (we agree on that), but it's not 100% bad, for example the heritage issue in the Sharia law is a good thing. But you must not know that you little mug.

There's a difference between being stupid and intelligent. Since you're an ignorant loser, you don't know what intelligence is

your white girlfriend..ummmm ... we cannot verify... and is therefore WORTHLESS as "evidence" here.

Also having a white girlfriend does not prevent one from being anti-white... many black males have white "biddies" as baubles and objects of anger release... they go out with white girls, partly because of a desire to shock people, and defile the white female in the eyes of "white society" and partly out a lust for white women.

would it pass if such a dastardly racist individual as myself would claim to have a black girlfriend .. .therefore it should be okay for me to continue to mock and insult blacks as a race?

no...

so please... oh and you're ad hominems are so obviously a sign of nervousness... relax tough guy... deflate a bit and "chill"... stop coming off as "watch out mom, big bad muslim here"...

[monkeyman]

your white girlfriend..ummmm ... we cannot verify... and is therefore WORTHLESS as "evidence" here.

Also having a white girlfriend does not prevent one from being anti-white... many black males have white "biddies" as baubles and objects of anger release... they go out with white girls, partly because of a desire to shock people, and defile the white female in the eyes of "white society" and partly out a lust for white women.

would it pass if such a dastardly racist individual as myself would claim to have a black girlfriend .. .therefore it should be okay for me to continue to mock and insult blacks as a race?

no...

so please... oh and you're ad hominems are so obviously a sign of nervousness... relax tough guy... deflate a bit and "chill"... stop coming off as "watch out mom, big bad muslim here"...

Hmmm, you must know me betther than I do.

[Melanie_]

Oh yeah???? Funny, I grew up in Montreal being little more tanned than White people and I feel 100% Canadian, my country (in my heart) is Canada. A lot of my friends have immigrants for parents and THEY FEEL Canadian. Some people will be born here and won't feel Canadian because of the education they received, IT SUCKS, I must confess. HOWEVER there is a HUGE majority of ethnic minorities that were born here and integrate REALLY WELL in the society. Why always look at the dark side of things ?

My husband is an immigrant, I'm white. Our son is in university, and was looking at scholarships, when I pointed out that he wasn't checking off the box that asked if he was a visible minority. His reaction was almost exactly what you said, Monkeyman, "Mom, I'm not a minority. I'm just a white guy with a tan." There's no doubt in his mind that he is just as Canadian as any one else on the street, and his skin colour is of no more significance than his eye colour. I agree with you, integration is happening all around us, but some people are only interested in the negative stories.

[Remiel]

Saying that any debate is a foregone conclusion (before even knowing what the other person might say) and automatically assuming that because someone is of a different belief or "standpoint" that that person is automatically wrong, silly and unworthy of your time... and then acting as though they would be blessing and "dignifying" the person whom they are rejecting argument with... is indeed a little presumptuous isn't it?

If it were prejudice, perhaps. But it is informed discrimination. World of difference.

either way why say it if your aim is to ignore me? why not be silent altogether? right?

Because I would be doing a disservice to those who do not already know you by not advising them of your distasteful intransigence on certain issues?

I am only having this conversation because it is a meta-debate. Otherwise, I would be ignoring you.

[bush_cheney2004]

My husband is an immigrant, I'm white. Our son is in university, and was looking at scholarships, when I pointed out that he wasn't checking off the box that asked if he was a visible minority.....

If this was a word problem in math, X still cannot be determined, as immigrants most certainly can be "white". But your assumption speaks volumes.

[lictor616]

My husband is an immigrant, I'm white. Our son is in university, and was looking at scholarships, when I pointed out that he wasn't checking off the box that asked if he was a visible minority. His reaction was almost exactly what you said, Monkeyman, "Mom, I'm not a minority. I'm just a white guy with a tan." There's no doubt in his mind that he is just as Canadian as any one else on the street, and his skin colour is of no more significance than his eye colour. I agree with you, integration is happening all around us, but some people are only interested in the negative stories.

why not check it and get preferrential treatment.. he should reconsider.

and could you be more specific... "immigrants" isn't all that precise.

[Melanie_]

If this was a word problem in math, X still cannot be determined, as immigrants most certainly can be "white". But your assumption speaks volumes.

You're right, I worded that badly. My husband is an immigrant from India, and our children are varying shades of brown.

[monkeyman]

My husband is an immigrant, I'm white. Our son is in university, and was looking at scholarships, when I pointed out that he wasn't checking off the box that asked if he was a visible minority. His reaction was almost exactly what you said, Monkeyman, "Mom, I'm not a minority. I'm just a white guy with a tan." There's no doubt in his mind that he is just as Canadian as any one else on the street, and his skin colour is of no more significance than his eye colour. I agree with you, integration is happening all around us, but some people are only interested in the negative stories.

100% agreed.

Walk in an French high school in Montreal, close your eyes, and you'll see that most of the people that speak French (Quebecois) are sons of immigrants. That shows us that immigrants integrate really well, and some people like Argus are interested only in negative stories.