Michael Hardner Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 The system has done nothing because I have not utilzed it, and those that rely on it go nowhere. Alta - you LIVE in it. You found success in a socialized system, so you must now be an advocate of that system right ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
punked Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 The system has done nothing because I have not utilzed it, and those that rely on it go nowhere. Like it or not you can't say you would have done any better or any worse in any other system. You are proof our wonderful system works. Could be better yes? Yes it could, however breaking the system in order to fix like crazy right wingers, and crazy left wingers suggest is just silly. Good for you, good for Canada, good for all of us. Quote
punked Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 Alta - you LIVE in it. You found success in a socialized system, so you must now be an advocate of that system right ? He is check it out. "Funny I have had no trouble concentrating a little wealth, and started with nothing. If you are willing to take a little risk, use your brain, and combine it with hard work, you will be successful." Quote
Alta4ever Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 Alta - you LIVE in it. You found success in a socialized system, so you must now be an advocate of that system right ? I do not live in it, I have nothing to do with it. I have manage to exploite the little capitalism that is left in our system to get ahead despite it all. For it to have been a sucess I would have had to utilze the programs, yet since I did not the socialist policies were a waste of resources. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
eyeball Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 I do not live in it, I have nothing to do with it. So you only use private roads to get around? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Michael Hardner Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 Alta, Your story is full of holes: You took 'risks' in a system where there's a social safety net to catch you if you fail. You benefit, indirectly, from a society that has thrived due to the mixed system Canada has developed so well. If you succeeded in a complete vacuum, separated from your environment - then you're the first one. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
punked Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 I do not live in it, I have nothing to do with it. I have manage to exploite the little capitalism that is left in our system to get ahead despite it all.For it to have been a sucess I would have had to utilze the programs, yet since I did not the socialist policies were a waste of resources. That is not true, if someone you have worked with or made money off of used those programs, or someone they worked with or made money off of used them, or someone they worked with or made money off used them, then you are in the system my friend. It is trickle up economics you put the money in the hands of those who will spend it, the money gets spreed around all ways. Welcome to being a successful Canadian story of our successful Canadian system. Quote
Alta4ever Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 Like it or not you can't say you would have done any better or any worse in any other system. You are proof our wonderful system works. Could be better yes? Yes it could, however breaking the system in order to fix like crazy right wingers, and crazy left wingers suggest is just silly. Good for you, good for Canada, good for all of us. It is proof of how wasteful our system is, all of the wasted resource could have been better spent, could have given more money directly to charity of my choice, it could have been used for a better education for my family or to creat further employment by reinvesting. I take it you don't pay taxes punked. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
punked Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 It is proof of how wasteful our system is, all of the wasted resource could have been better spent, could have given more money directly to charity of my choice, it could have been used for a better education for my family or to creat further employment by reinvesting. I take it you don't pay taxes punked. I pay quite a bit of taxes, I pay into a pension plan, and I save for my retirement. I do all that and I give to political candidates, charities and I volunteer. I don't whine or cry about it becuase I think we live in the best system in the world, where someone like you who started out with nothing can take chances knowing the government wont let him starve. Where they lend me money so I could go through school becuase they know an educated person is worth the risk of making that loan. What a great system we live in. It needs some tweaking, a little more regulation, but I love this country. Quote
Alta4ever Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 Alta,Your story is full of holes: You took 'risks' in a system where there's a social safety net to catch you if you fail. You benefit, indirectly, from a society that has thrived due to the mixed system Canada has developed so well. If you succeeded in a complete vacuum, separated from your environment - then you're the first one. I took risks before the social safety net is what it is today. I directly benefit from a global economy, and the freer movement of capital, and ideas, and risk. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Michael Hardner Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 I concur that we have an excellent balance of business environment and safety net, however Alta is right that the system could be more efficient. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
punked Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 I took risks before the social safety net is what it is today. I directly benefit from a global economy, and the freer movement of capital, and ideas, and risk. Good for you. Good for Canada, another triumph of our system. Quote
Alta4ever Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 I pay quite a bit of taxes, I pay into a pension plan, and I save for my retirement. I do all that and I give to political candidates, charities and I volunteer. I don't whine or cry about it becuase I think we live in the best system in the world, where someone like you who started out with nothing can take chances knowing the government wont let him starve. Where they lend me money so I could go through school becuase they know an educated person is worth the risk of making that loan. What a great system we live in. It needs some tweaking, a little more regulation, but I love this country. What about the person who refuses to work, and why does the most ineffecient model of distrabution have to be the provider. Why can't i have the option to opt out, and keep that portion of my taxes, why do you think you need the government to protect you. I don't want the government to take care of me or be a "safety net". If I make the mistake I am willing to live with the consequences take responsiblity and do what I need to do to survive it. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Alta4ever Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 Good for you. Good for Canada, another triumph of our system. I do not benefit from our social system, it hinders me and steals my time and work for services I do not utlize and do not want. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
punked Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 What about the person who refuses to work, and why does the most ineffecient model of distrabution have to be the provider. Why can't i have the option to opt out, and keep that portion of my taxes, why do you think you need the government to protect you. I don't want the government to take care of me or be a "safety net". If I make the mistake I am willing to live with the consequences take responsiblity and do what I need to do to survive it. Because a rising tide tide lifts all ships. I like it that the homeless don't starve, the elderly know they can have medical coverage, and that if someday I find myself out of work and out of money that my family wont freeze to death in the winter. Quote
Alta4ever Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 Because a rising tide tide lifts all ships. I like it that the homeless don't starve, the elderly know they can have medical coverage, and that if someday I find myself out of work and out of money that my family wont freeze to death in the winter. A rising tide doesn't lift the boat with holes in its hulls. So why do I have to pay for your feeling of security, why couldn't you buy some form of private insurance for EI (if we allowed it). So the homeless aren't starving under the current system? Seniors and citizens aren't going without healthcare? Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
punked Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 A rising tide doesn't lift the boat with holes in its hulls. So why do I have to pay for your feeling of security, why couldn't you buy some form of private insurance for EI (if we allowed it). So the homeless aren't starving under the current system? Seniors and citizens aren't going without healthcare? Becuase the private insurance industry has an overhead of 20% it would be a waste of all our money. It is better then in the free market world wonder Somalia where the government stays out of all bisuness. Quote
Alta4ever Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 Becuase the private insurance industry has an overhead of 20% it would be a waste of all our money. And yet the the government doesn't understand the word efficiency. It has been proven that in a compeditive market place, is always more efficient then a government model. http://books.google.ca/books?id=lUG4_EIY0t...ise&f=false Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
punked Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 And yet the the government doesn't understand the word efficiency. It has been proven that in a compeditive market place, is always more efficient then a government model. http://books.google.ca/books?id=lUG4_EIY0t...ise&f=false Not in in the insurance Industry it aint. Look at health care, look at car insurance. Quote
Alta4ever Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 Not in in the insurance Industry it aint. Look at health care, look at car insurance. Sure we can look at both Car insurance in Manitoba is more expensive (what you typically pay for one car in winnipeq, I pay for two)then is in Alberta, average claim payout is higher in Alberta, then Manitoba. As for medical coverage, I get far better coverage through great west life opposed to alberta blue cross. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Jerry J. Fortin Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 WE have private insurance plans for just about everything, and those that can afford these things buy them. Others who cannot at least get get minimum coverage for health care. That is a good thing, but here are many flawed things happening here. We have begun to journey down the path of corporate governance and corporate welfare. We are beginning to spend far more than we have and will soon be forced to cut programs ans services to balance the books. Our taxes are going up and the value of our money will become eroded. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted August 6, 2009 Author Report Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) I thought about posting this topic elsewhere but I thought it might generate a bit of interest in a more visible spot. Hey - I like all you guys. But really....someone rightly mentioned that you could probably create an experiment that showed that an extreme right wing philosophy with unchecked capitalism would also destroy societies because it lends itself to greed and "every man for himself". One philsophy lends itself to apathy - the other to greed. As a previous poster said, you need balance. The US almost consumed itself in the past year - they caused a Global economic crisis through greed in the Banking System - a good example of how underegulated capitalism can go astray. I'm so proud of Canada and our ability to provide a good balance. Having said that, this "balance" is precisely why programs like EI and Provincial Welfare are so important - but also why it's so important to get the right balance inside these programs. Each has the capability to move us towards apathy. Edited August 6, 2009 by Keepitsimple Quote Back to Basics
madmax Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 Here's an interesting tidbit that showed up in my Now, as to whether this professor ever really "conducted" this experiment - I can't really prove - but it makes for an interesting read: I am dumber for reading this.....The Prof needs to find a new job. He's a loser. Quote
madmax Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 Probably because it exposes socialism as the fraud that it is. Socialism only spreads misery "equally." And makes people feel "better" for it. No... because its stupid. Quote
M.Dancer Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 No... because its stupid. Yes, it leaves out an important aspect of the socialist state. The party cadre. Party activists would identify the under performing workers, pubickly humiliate them, chastise them and if they did not improve, they would be sent for re-education (fail?). They might also identify the over performers as well, label them counter revolutionaries, bourgois lap dogs, have their notes confiscated and send them to a vocational school to learn the joys of proletariat dredgery. Socialism cannot work without the Red Gaurd. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
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