dub Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Isreal has repetedley stated that they will solidify their borders in 2010. Almost 50 years post war. http://www.friendsofsabeel.org.uk/images/I...estine_maps.jpg http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/03/29/i...-coalition.html http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/8311.htm Isreal is not done yet. likud is the government. you're posting articles from 2006. maybe you should think before you press reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Is that an excuse? says the guy who gave the reply below to this comment: dub:the AI investigation has already shown that the IDF has used palestinian civilians as human shields on numerous occasions. dancer: Apples and oranges. The IDF use was to prevent death. Hamas does it to cause death. an example of how disgustingly dishonest these war crimes apologists can become. he has absolutely no shame in announcing their hypocrisy and double standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 an example of how disgustingly dishonest these war crimes apologists can become. he has absolutely no shame in announcing their hypocrisy and double standards. You want double standard? Which of the two publicly endorse human shields? Hamas? The State of Israel? BTW, you spelt "I" wrong and improperly conjugated the verb have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) You want double standard? Which of the two publicly endorse human shields? Hamas? The State of Israel? anyone who uses civilians as human shields is wrong. your message is that israel's use of civilians as human shields is not wrong. how do you expect to be taken seriously? BTW, you spelt "I" wrong and improperly conjugated the verb have. i don't think Fat Fingers should be giving typing lessons and failing at being witty. Edited July 30, 2009 by dub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 anyone who uses civilians as human shields is wrong. I guess that explains why you deny Hamas uses them. Becuse it would be..wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) If you ask this question then you are not up to a freespirited discussion on this subject. Oh...I just wanted you to say "Zionist Entity invaders". C'mon you know you want to. It does not. This is rather the sign of powerlessness. Next time I feel "powerless" can I lob some Katuyshas at your house? How did bombing of trains, busses, market places help the Jewish cause? Or perhaps you don't even know about terrorism committed in palestine by Jews? Nope...never heard of Irgun or the Stern Gang. Israel has been propped up by money and weaponry from everywhere, particularly from the US. Today Israelis do not need "personal bombing", they have the most moder weapon systems. Let's supply the Palestinians with modern weapons and the required knowledge, and they will change from throwing the bomb by hand to dropping it from above or shooting from tanks. Until then your complaint is pure hypocrisy. The Arabs have been propped up by money and weaponry from everywhere, particularly Iran and China. There was a time the Arabs got their weapons for free from a certain sugardaddy. But now this sugardaddy actually wants to get paid for MiGs and T-90s. The Yom Kippur War was the final attempt the Arabs made to wipe Israel off the map with these free weapons. As I'm sure you know since you're up on history and such, even this war...despite initial successes due to a surprise attack...was an utter failure with whole Egyptian armies surrounded and 2000 or so Arab/Soviet tanks litering the battlefield. Until Arab apologists like yourself acknowledge the effects of the Arab-Israeli Wars your complaints are also pure hypocrisy. Edited July 30, 2009 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Nope...never heard of Irgun or the Stern Gang. What a coincidence. I never heard of them either, I especially never heard of Irgun being formed as a response to the arab pogroms and massacres against jews in the 1920s, knowing that the British and Arab police would do nothing to protect them. I wish I knew those things but I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 What a coincidence. I never heard of them either, I especially never heard of Irgun being formed as a response to the arab pogroms and massacres against jews in the 1920s, knowing that the British and Arab police would do nothing to protect them.I wish I knew those things but I don't. The terrorist apologists like to make a big thing about these two groups...small that they were...and detested by Haganah. As one Israeli at the time put it...we're trying to put a civilized face to the world and you clowns aren't helping...or words to that effect. Both groups were shattered during the 1948 War when they were used more or less as conventional forces against the Arab Legion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted July 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 If the Palestinians want an "international safe zone", they can withdraw to make room for it. Of what benefit would such a zone be to Israel? Withdraw to where? To the Israeli settlements in Gaza? Into the ocean? http://media.npr.org/news/specials/gaza/mi...gaza_map200.jpg http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://...=1&ct=image Israel has trapped Gazans in a very small territory, pushed them as far as they can be pushed as Israel expanded into Gaza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Withdraw to where? To the Israeli settlements in Gaza? Into the ocean?http://media.npr.org/news/specials/gaza/mi...gaza_map200.jpg http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://...=1&ct=image Israel has trapped Gazans in a very small territory, pushed them as far as they can be pushed as Israel expanded into Gaza. Just make the fooking place Egyptian again and be done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted July 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Just make the fooking place Egyptian again and be done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 It would solve a lot of problems now, wouldn't it? But the Egyptians think they're a bunch of whack-job terrorists too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted July 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) It would solve a lot of problems now, wouldn't it? But the Egyptians think they're a bunch of whack-job terrorists too. It would serve Israel's purpose to drive all the Palestinians out of Gaza. It is clear this is a war of aggression to take over Gaza completely. Why are there so many Israeli settlements in Gaza? Just part of the plan. http://www.littleredbutton.com/gaza/map.html I believe that if we all were in the situation Gaza is, under constant siege and aggression and occupation, we would all be "terrorists" too, defending ourselves. The situation Israel has put Gaza in is unconscionable. Edited July 30, 2009 by tango Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 It would serve Israel's purpose to drive all the Palestinians out of Gaza. It is clear this is a war of aggression to take over Gaza completely. Why are there so many Israeli settlements in Gaza? Just part of the plan. http://www.littleredbutton.com/gaza/map.html There are no settlements in Gaza. *Gong* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted July 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 There are no settlements in Gaza. *Gong* Look at the map. Do you actually know anything about this, or just operate on blind faith? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Look at the map.Do you actually know anything about this, or just operate on blind faith? So your saying there are Israeli settlements in Gaza? Facinating. Better look at its date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Had a chance to look yet? Now how am I supposed to take you seriously about ANYTHING re: theis conflict? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted July 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 So your saying there are Israeli settlements in Gaza? Facinating. Better look at its date. You're right. They moved out in 05. Why were they there? http://www.miftah.org/Display.cfm?DocId=82&CategoryId=4 The concept of Israeli settlements is driven by political and ideological considerations. In practical terms, this dictates that the very existence of Israeli settlements serves the strategic, military, and economic interests of Israel as well as its advocacy of national assertiveness. The establishment of Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank (including east Jerusalem) began in 1967 as a means of controlling and annexing Palestinian land occupied during the “1967 War.” It's part of Israel's expansion aggression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) I guess that explains why you deny Hamas uses them. Becuse it would be..wrong. this is not about me. after the investigation, the report concluded that hamas did not use civilians as human shields during the recent gaza conflict. however, they did conclude that israel did use civilians as human shields many times and in different ways. Edited July 30, 2009 by dub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 You're right. They moved out in 05.Why were they there? http://www.miftah.org/Display.cfm?DocId=82&CategoryId=4 The concept of Israeli settlements is driven by political and ideological considerations. In practical terms, this dictates that the very existence of Israeli settlements serves the strategic, military, and economic interests of Israel as well as its advocacy of national assertiveness. The establishment of Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank (including east Jerusalem) began in 1967 as a means of controlling and annexing Palestinian land occupied during the “1967 War.” It's part of Israel's expansion aggression. the reason why they removed the settlements was because they were costing them too much. they simply removed the 7000 settlers from gaza and moved them to other illegal settlements in the west bank. in fact, despite the gaza settlement removals, the number of illegal settlements have increased. there is also the whole collective punishment that israel has imposed on the gaza people since they elected hamas into power over 2 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Why were they there? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Withdraw to where? To the Israeli settlements in Gaza? Into the ocean? Umm, welcome to the third millennium? There are no Israeli settlements in Gaza. It's clear that if you only learned this fact in this thread, just now, you have a lot more research to do before you can really understand the discussion of the Arab-Israeli conflict and the issues surrounding the creation of a Palestinian state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War There is old Mel on my corner - He runs the upstairs living quarters for all the losers at one of Canada's oldest strip clubs..He's a fine man - Jewish and we talk on occassion..all he says is --- "People have been gaining territory through war since time began" Not that I agree that if one person beats the crap out of the other - that the victor gets to have - his car - his wife - his kids - his house - his land - his money - EVERYTHING! I guess I just don't believe in violence - or war for that matter..it's barbaric - It's like me walking up to a weaker person - and breaking their nose and saying - now I own you.....just can't agree with war and the winning of it as a justification for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) There is old Mel on my corner - He runs the upstairs living quarters for all the losers at one of Canada's oldest strip clubs..He's a fine man - Jewish and we talk on occassion..all he says is --- "People have been gaining territory through war since time began" Not that I agree that if one person beats the crap out of the other - that the victor gets to have - his car - his wife - his kids - his house - his land - his money - EVERYTHING! I guess I just don't believe in violence - or war for that matter..it's barbaric - It's like me walking up to a weaker person - and breaking their nose and saying - now I own you.....just can't agree with war and the winning of it as a justification for anything. That would hold water if the Arabs hadn't mobalized their armies...moved them to the border after kicking out the UN and blockading Israel's ports. Nasser wanted a fight...or rather he whipped the people up into a war frenzy from which there was no way back except war...let's let Nasser speak.... There is no longer a way out of our present situation except by forging a road toward our objective, violently and by force, over a sea of blood and under a horizon blazing with fire.---June 1967 Edited July 31, 2009 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Who introduced terrorism? It was omnipresent in the region, due to the British-Zionist plan to make a "Jewish home" in Palestine. You seem to ignore - or not to know Weizman's the British told us that there are several hundred thousand Negroes there but this is a matter of no consequence and the King-Crane Commission's report from 1919: The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conferences with Jewish representatives that the Zionists looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine, by various forms of purchase... and the many other proofs, that the Zionists always intended and of course still intend intend to dispell all Palestinians from Palestine and occupy it permanently. Thus the Arab inhabitants of Palestine were justifiedly resisting the Jewish immigration. What does the 1929 massacre of jews in Hebron have to do with today?Nothing It was one event in the sequence of hundreds and thousands, which together constitute history, the basis for the present. Please continue your posting of irrelevancies. I see objective argumentation is your strong side. Which of the two publicly endorse human shields? What about hostage taking from the population, not from fighters? Do you know of any other country, the Supreme Court of which sanctionized this kind of hostage taking? (This does not mitigate the IDF's usage of civilians as shild.) Oh...I just wanted you to say "Zionist Entity invaders". C'mon you know you want to A funny choice of words. For me this is the majority of Israeli Jews: thives, terrorists, liars and common robbers. Next time I feel "powerless" can I lob some Katuyshas at your house? Of course you can, justifiedly, if I bombed and shelled your cities, stole your water, destroyed your home and your farm, etc. The Arabs have been propped up by money and weaponry from everywhere, particularly Iran and China. There was a time the Arabs got their weapons for free from a certain sugardaddy They were never supported even close to the extent the US supported Israel. But now this sugardaddy actually wants to get paid for MiGs and T-90s Right, unlike the US. There is a Jewish joke about their God having given them the only spot in the ME without oil. Well, that's true, but their God gave them a huge, rich and dumb host to leech on. despite initial successes due to a surprise attack...was an utter failure with whole Egyptian armies surrounded and 2000 or so Arab/Soviet tanks litering the battlefield No question about the Israeli Jews being much more successful than the Arabs both in war and in propaganda (and and). Until Arab apologists like yourself acknowledge the effects of the Arab-Israeli Wars your complaints are also pure hypocrisy You are making it difficult to take you seriously. The terrorist apologists like to make a big thing about these two groups...small that they were...and detested by Haganah 1. It was you, who mentioned Irgun and the Stern Gang as the only Zionist terrorist groups. 2. You are implying, that Haganah was not a terrorist group. Well, it was, as was Lehi. 3. Shamir about the Irgun and Stern Gang: it was the only way we could operate, because we were so small. So it was more efficient and more moral to go for selected targets 4. Weizman about the massacre of civilians in Deir Yassin, by Irgun and Stern together: miraculous simplification of our task Ben Gurion about the same: without Deir Yasin there would be no Israel 5. Almost all Prime Ministers of Israel had been active participants in one or another terrorist group (unparalleled on the earth): Begin, Rabin, Shamir, Sharon, ... So, be careful with the separation and condemnation of these groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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