Canadian Defends Anti-Medicare Ad

[M.Dancer]

Accupuncture?

Yeah....herbal hogwash.

[Radsickle]

You know If I was as dim as you I would take care about insulting your betters....

WHO is the UN

Roger that, Baboon. You seem to be right about that one. My bad. Musta been the tinfoil.

Still, the links could at least start with "www.who.org" instead of some corporation...

Edited July 24, 2009 by Radsickle

[Shady]

Roger that, Baboon.

Resorting to name calling now? Pathetic, and against the forum rules. Attack ideas, with your own ideas. Stop the insults.

[Radsickle]

Resorting to name calling now? Pathetic, and against the forum rules. Attack ideas, with your own ideas. Stop the insults.

You're jumping out of the shadows to chastize me now? Baboon has been my term of endearment for that person for months now. Only after he said I wear tinfoil on my head though... I figure it's fair and, unless you're admin, bugger off!

Shona Holmes should move to the country she craves.

Edited July 24, 2009 by Radsickle

[Wild Bill]

You're jumping out of the shadows to chastize me now? Baboon has been my term of endearment for that person for months now. Only after he said I wear tinfoil on my head though... I figure it's fair and, unless you're admin, bugger off!

Shona Holmes should move to the country she craves.

You must be spending too much time over at "rubble".com. Where are your manners?

One of the best things about this board is that for the most part people are civil! You almost ALWAYS attack ad hominem and emotionally!

You're not the only one. The past few months seem to have shown more and more of these kinds of posts. Still, you ARE a prime example!

I'm not a moderator but if this behavior is going to become the norm for MLW then I will vote with my feet and move on. I was disgusted with "rubble" and appreciated finding this board. If it goes the same way then I'm gone!

I'm not trying to make some pompous statement. I really don't care how anyone else might feel about it. I just don't enjoy that sort of atmosphere.

I may or may not represent a significant number of members who feel the same way and would also bail. I don't care. I just want to participate somewhere civilized!

Perhaps it's just human nature. Perhaps all boards eventually deteriorate into "rubble". I don't know.

I just know I'm getting tired of an ignorant and severe lack of manners.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

You must be spending too much time over at "rubble".com. Where are your manners?

One of the best things about this board is that for the most part people are civil! You almost ALWAYS attack ad hominem and emotionally!

You're not the only one. The past few months seem to have shown more and more of these kinds of posts. Still, you ARE a prime example!

I'm not a moderator but if this behavior is going to become the norm for MLW then I will vote with my feet and move on. I was disgusted with "rubble" and appreciated finding this board. If it goes the same way then I'm gone!

I'm not trying to make some pompous statement. I really don't care how anyone else might feel about it. I just don't enjoy that sort of atmosphere.

I may or may not represent a significant number of members who feel the same way and would also bail. I don't care. I just want to participate somewhere civilized!

Perhaps it's just human nature. Perhaps all boards eventually deteriorate into "rubble". I don't know.

I just know I'm getting tired of an ignorant and severe lack of manners.

This thread merely proves the passion of the posters on the topic. Specifically you are viewing an American responding to a health care issue in their own nation and Canadians trying to support their beliefs in their own system. There is little room for tolerance on these grounds so a natural response is one of anger and fear.

[madmax]

This thread merely proves the passion of the posters on the topic. Specifically you are viewing an American responding to a health care issue in their own nation and Canadians trying to support their beliefs in their own system. There is little room for tolerance on these grounds so a natural response is one of anger and fear.

It may be so... but I have read the thread, and I agree with WildBill about the content of the posts.

There are a number of people on MLW that make personal accusations, but even then I know those people can back up many of their arguments outside of the personal attacks. However, when the sentences get down to simply slurs and personal attacks, there is no room left for discussion and the thread becomes useless.

Fact is, this woman has done more to demonstrate the weakness of the US system, rather then its strengths and the same is true about the Canadian System.

The more she speaks, her target audience in the US, starts listening to how the Canadian System works, and the more they want Public Medicare.

Its cheaper, and is universal.

That said... Argus is one for personal attacks but has laid out some of the better arguments for CDN healthcare, and that is coming from someone on the Right.

The poster in question would be wise to do the same and provide stronger arguments and less pot shots.

[madmax]

Where are your manners?

I just know I'm getting tired of an ignorant and severe lack of manners.

Shut up.....

[Argus]

Wouldn't matter if he did.....please take a number and wait like a good little Canuck.

Don't mistake me here. I am NOT in favour of our present system. I think outlawing private, for profit services is idiotic. I do think they should be available. I'd like to see us emulating some of the better run systems in Europe, all of which have privately run health care options available.

But there is virtually nothing about the US system which strikes me as anything but ludicrously inefficient, over costly and ineffective, to say nothing of cruel and heartless.

[Argus]

Because I can. Getting what we want when we want it is an American thang.

Okay. That doesn't sound like something to be all that proud of if you compare it to the Canadian thang - which is to not allow our friends and neighbours to die for lack of the money needed to pay for health care.

[bush_cheney2004]

Don't mistake me here. I am NOT in favour of our present system. I think outlawing private, for profit services is idiotic. I do think they should be available. I'd like to see us emulating some of the better run systems in Europe, all of which have privately run health care options available.

Right....it would be silly to emulate the Canadian system as it presently exists....there are far better approaches.

But there is virtually nothing about the US system which strikes me as anything but ludicrously inefficient, over costly and ineffective, to say nothing of cruel and heartless.

Depends on what the goal is....universal access has never been the goal. Technically, the care in the US can be quite good if not the best available for any price. Canadian metrics do not always apply....health care is not a right.

[Argus]

I call complete bullshit on that. You cannot get a CAT scan or MRI the next day. Sorry. Actually you can, if you're a cat or dog, but that's it.

Oh of course you can if it's an emergency. But yes, the waits for diagnostic tests can be ludicrously long, especially MRIs, depending on the province. Ontario is terrible at it.

I had to go for a CAT scan last summer, btw. I guess I expected long lines, huge crowded waiting room. I brought a book and several newspapers to read. I found no one there. I was actually in and out before my appointment time! It was not by any means an emergency, and I'd guess I waited about three weeks or so - could be wrong - to get it. MRI waits are far longer, disgracefully long, in fact.

Edited July 24, 2009 by Argus

[bush_cheney2004]

Okay. That doesn't sound like something to be all that proud of if you compare it to the Canadian thang - which is to not allow our friends and neighbours to die for lack of the money needed to pay for health care.

Still, people have voted with their feet....300,000,000 Americans....34,000,000 Canadians. Pride doesn't explain that.

[bush_cheney2004]

...I had to go for a CAT scan last summer, btw. I guess I expected long lines, huge crowded waiting room. I brought a book and several newspapers to read. I found no one there. I was actually in and out before my appointment time! It was not by any means an emergency, and I'd guess I waited about three weeks or so - could be wrong - to get it. MRI waits are far longer, disgracefully long, in fact.

Great example....why/what are Canadians waiting for? A lack of skilled technicians? Doctors to read results? Are they open for "business" or not?

[Smallc]

MRI waits are far longer, disgracefully long, in fact.

Yes, they are. In Manitoba, we had the waits under control when the rules stated that only specialists and rural physicians could order MRIs. Now that every doctor can order them, the waits have doubled. There are a couple of things being done to fix the wait here, but it's going to be about ayear before they take affect.

[Machjo]

I won't jump into the debate over private vs. public health care right now, but all I'll say is that I hope the arguments remain entrenched in ethical and scientific considerations, and not on blind traditionalist rhetoric, like suggesting one system is Canadian, the other unpatriotic, or anti-Canadian, or un-Canadian, etc. trying to suggest that Canadian identity is based on some kind of common national ideology that must never be questioned, always worshipped.

[bush_cheney2004]

I won't jump into the debate over private vs. public health care right now, but all I'll say is that I hope the arguments remain entrenched in ethical and scientific considerations, and not on blind traditionalist rhetoric, like suggesting one system is Canadian, the other unpatriotic, or anti-Canadian, or un-Canadian, etc. trying to suggest that Canadian identity is based on some kind of common national ideology that must never be questioned, always worshipped.

OK...but it is a curious and strident behavior. I suspect it is one of the hallmark "we're not American" metrics for identifying what it means to be Canadian.

[Argus]

Still, people have voted with their feet....300,000,000 Americans....34,000,000 Canadians. Pride doesn't explain that.

What explains that is geography. You might have a look at it some time.

[bush_cheney2004]

What explains that is geography. You might have a look at it some time.

Ah yes..."geography"....human and physical....trumping the desire to reject "cruelty" and "heartlessness".

It's all good.

[Machjo]

OK...but it is a curious and strident behavior. I suspect it is one of the hallmark "we're not American" metrics for identifying what it means to be Canadian.

Yes, many Canadians would find it easier to define themselves by what they're not rather than by waht they are. Sad, really.

Honestly, perhaps Quebec, Labrador, and Nunavut aside, most of Canada's differences with the US are limited to the monarch and the Parliamentary system.

Seeing how similar our nations are, I don't see why it would not be possible to establish a common citizenship in future.

... uh oh, just wait for the pummelling to begin in response to this comment.... but it's true.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Seeing how similar our nations are, I don't see why it would not be possible to establish a common citizenship in future.

There might be a more practical change in cross border emmigration behaviours.....that is....what will happen should the USA implement universal health insurance and access? As it stands today, about 25,000 Canadians emmigrate south each year (legally)...and ??? Americans head north.

Edited July 24, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[benny]

Yes, many Canadians would find it easier to define themselves by what they're not rather than by waht they are. Sad, really.

Honestly, perhaps Quebec, Labrador, and Nunavut aside, most of Canada's differences with the US are limited to the monarch and the Parliamentary system.

Seeing how similar our nations are, I don't see why it would not be possible to establish a common citizenship in future.

... uh oh, just wait for the pummelling to begin in response to this comment.... but it's true.

Since physicians working in Canada as well as those working in the US often come from all around the world, I suggest a common world citizenship.

[scorpio]

As it stands today, about 25,000 Canadians emmigrate south each year (legally)...and ??? Americans head north.

And 100,000+ Americans buy their medications from Canada.

link

link

Edited July 24, 2009 by scorpio

[benny]

And 100,000 Americans + buy their drugs from Canada.

link

link

And also, the rich Canadians who go to the US for expensive life-saving operations are responsible for the premature death of poor Americans.

[scorpio]

And also, the rich Canadians who go to the US for expensive life-saving operations are responsible for the premature death of poor Americans.

Responsible??