Canadian Defends Anti-Medicare Ad

Oleg Bach · August 6, 2009

Employment insurance has to be linked to health insurance because illnesses can cause unemployment and vice versa.

Good work benny - concise and easily understood. There are stress related illnesses also that are caused BY employment...a vigorous and relentless chasing of the up powering of the bottom line achieves corporate success at a human cost _ I know one corporation where they work their managment into the ground - the break down - and are replaced by cheaper labour...with a falsified employment record so the disgarded manager can not win a wrongful dismissal suit --- I have seen executives who are "producer of the year" - get tossed out the same year for incompetance....so what's that - no wonder half the work force is jacked up on Prozac and tranx...We abuse those that are loyal to the company.

Bonam · August 6, 2009

Correct...this is how we end up with very poor sausage, or a horse designed by committe (a camel). The very nature of rushing this through is beginning to raise many questions, and the bills will bog down after recess is over. It will take more than Obama charm to get the job done

It seems to me that doing healthcare reform by taking a current system, which many believe is flawed, costly, overcomplicated, weighed down by bureaucracy, and issuing a thousand page bill which makes it even more complicated and costs even more is hardly the way to go.

If healthcare is to be done differently in the US, a new paradigm should be designed from the ground up. Perhaps it should be made in emulation of other nations where healthcare works better, or perhaps something totally new, using America's ability for innovation to create a better healthcare system than anywhere else.

Anyone that's ever designed any kind of system can tell you that designing something from scratch, you can make something much better than trying to modify and repair something that is already extremely complex.

Whatever should be done, thousands of pages of added bureaucracy is counterproductive.

punked · August 6, 2009

benny · August 7, 2009

Good work benny - concise and easily understood. There are stress related illnesses also that are caused BY employment...a vigorous and relentless chasing of the up powering of the bottom line achieves corporate success at a human cost _ I know one corporation where they work their managment into the ground - the break down - and are replaced by cheaper labour...with a falsified employment record so the disgarded manager can not win a wrongful dismissal suit --- I have seen executives who are "producer of the year" - get tossed out the same year for incompetance....so what's that - no wonder half the work force is jacked up on Prozac and tranx...We abuse those that are loyal to the company.

The solution to all healthcare problems passes by understanding that a real job consists, for the people relatively lucky to be healthy, in helping those relatively unlucky to be ill or handicapped.

Edited August 7, 2009 by benny

jbg · August 7, 2009

The solution to all healthcare problems passes by understanding that a real job consists, for the people relatively lucky to be healthy, in helping those relatively unlucky to be ill or handicapped.

To you a real job is making about 26 posts a day, with about 20 of them being nonesensical?

benny · August 7, 2009

To you a real job is making about 26 posts a day, with about 20 of them being nonesensical?

Distinguishing real from phony jobs give a lot of free time.

Wild Bill · August 7, 2009

You speak as though it is against the law for you to purchase supplementary health insurance.
You have all of the same freedoms here as you do there. The real deciding difference is that here you have an extremely high level of minimum coverage that cannot be denied, even if you are out of a job, or have a 'pre-existing condition'.

Not totally true, Molly!

Yes, you can purchase extra insurance to get a private ward that you don't have to share with others. However, if you want to pay a specialist directly for a procedure or pay cash for basic medical coverage, that is totally illegal.

If you need an MRI and are worried about the wait times, you wait! Paying private would be illegal. The same to remove your appendix or even visit a GP if you have a cold! If you are rich, you could go to the States. Our system would then pay 90%!

So the rich have an out. What else is new? I still remember when Bob Rae was in power as premier of Ontario. I can't remember if it was his mother or his granny who was very ill and was flown to a hospital in Buffalo.

I can't even afford the gas to drive there!

Seems to me we've always had a two-tier system.

Anyhow, there are only a couple of other countries that made paying private for basic care totally illegal. There's Cuba and Angola. Good company for Canada, I guess.

So if you're waiting for a heart bypass, take good care of yourself. From personal experience, you will be told that if it becomes an emergency you will be immediately looked after.

How do you predict an emergency? If you keel over, hopefully someone will be there to notice and call an ambulance. Let's also hope you don't die on the way to the hospital.

I waited 3 months and then was bumped for another month. To be truthful, I never felt in any imminent danger but then as every wife knows, we men tend to live in denial about such things! How reliably can these things be predicted? If your heart is bad enough to need bypass surgery what are the odds against you suffering an unexpected attack?

I don't know myself but I doubt it's 100%! When it's your own life on the line you can't help but feel a bit uncomfortable about taking such chances.

I should admit that my care in the hospital was excellent! The doctors and nurses treated me fabulously. When I first woke up a nurse said "If you do what you're told things won't hurt!"

I replied "I never argue with a woman of experience!" She laughed and said we'd get along just fine. She was right about everything. I figured she'd have a lot more experience with such an operation than I did.

I find it both amazing and a bit suspicious how so many of my fellow Canadians go absolutely rabid at the thought of there being the slightest flaw in our system, particularly if someone's comparing it to the American one. How about comparisons with most European systems? We don't stack up so well against them either!

This fanaticism totally prevents addressing any problems or even some improvements. Anyone who reports personal negative experience is written off as either a flake or some kind of "lackey of the American running dog bourgeoisie".

Bill Gairdner wrote a fascinating history and description of our system in his book "The Trouble With Canada". It's a good read. Especially for those who disagree with him. He has footnotes and stats coming out the ying yang! Over the years I've heard little or nothing from his critics that wasn't simple ad hominem gibberish.

Edited August 7, 2009 by Wild Bill

madmax · August 7, 2009

Not totally true, Molly!
If you need an MRI and are worried about the wait times, you wait! Paying private would be illegal. The same to remove your appendix or even visit a GP if you have a cold! If you are rich, you could go to the States.

There is nothing illegal against setting up a totally private clinic. Just don't ask for government funds or OHIP to pay for your personal privellidge.

If you are Rich, you can pay for anything you want.

Get over it and stop your whining. You sound like someone in the Emerge complaining that they have been waiting for 5 hours to have a sliver removed.

I have just watched to of my closests friends get struck down with Cancer at a very young age and they are getting execellent treatment and there hasn't been any wait.

I got no use for the public to fund private profit health care enterprises.

benny · August 7, 2009

When one is waiting for health services in Canada s/he is doing at least two things: facing universal values and reviewing her/his lifestyle.

Jerry J. Fortin · August 7, 2009

Madmax has hit the nail on the head here. There is nothing wrong with nor anything to prevent private for profit clinics being setup in Canada. Lets just keep our eye on the ball and not allow public funding to flow into these clinics. If they are private, then let them operate on a private basis.

benny · August 7, 2009

Madmax has hit the nail on the head here. There is nothing wrong with nor anything to prevent private for profit clinics being setup in Canada. Lets just keep our eye on the ball and not allow public funding to flow into these clinics. If they are private, then let them operate on a private basis.

There are no private medical schools in Canada.

bush_cheney2004 · August 7, 2009

There are no private medical schools in Canada.

..or Cuba.

Jerry J. Fortin · August 7, 2009

BY all means start one up. Nothing in contravention of any statute to prevent it.

benny · August 7, 2009

..or Cuba.

The time of U.S.-backed dictator Fulgencio Batista in Cuba is over.

bush_cheney2004 · August 7, 2009

The time of U.S.-backed dictator Fulgencio Batista in Cuba is over.

So is the time of US backed Lester Pearson in Canada.

benny · August 7, 2009

So is the time of US backed Lester Pearson in Canada.

It's Obama's time. Find a new name!

bush_cheney2004 · August 7, 2009

It's Obama's time. Find a new name!

OK, but you try to find a new doctor.

Jerry J. Fortin · August 7, 2009

OK, but you try to find a new doctor.

We have spares in Barrhead! Lots of docs.

benny · August 7, 2009

We have spares in Barrhead! Lots of docs.

Of course, we don't kill them in Canada (for performing abortions)!

madmax · August 7, 2009

There are no private medical schools in Canada.

http://www.medixschool.ca/home/

Interested In A New Career?

You've come to the right place. For over 35 years Medix School has been providing industry leading career training for those looking to become Health Care professionals. Medix has expanded to 6 locations in Ontario, each of them featuring state of the art facilities, Medix is the clear choice for those looking to change their life today. Classes Starting Soon.

Edited August 7, 2009 by madmax

madmax · August 7, 2009

OK, but you try to find a new doctor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian

Molly · August 7, 2009

Not totally true, Molly!
Yes, you can purchase extra insurance to get a private ward that you don't have to share with others. However, if you want to pay a specialist directly for a procedure or pay cash for basic medical coverage, that is totally illegal.

Actually, Bill, it IS entirely true. You are free to buy all of the insurance you want, and you can access the American, or the European or the Mexican systems at will. It's all right there, and demands only money... claims that it is illegal for us to access that opportunity are false. You want to buy insurance equal to that of Bill Gates, go ahead and buy it. If you want to drive to Buffalo for your healthcare, the only things stopping you are your wallet and your own good sense..but if you can't afford the gas, then you likely can't afford the insurance, or the care, either.

What you can't do in Canada is a buy place in the line here ahead of someone who needs the service more... and frankly, I figure it's a good thing that need, rather than wealth, is the most important healthcare criterion.

No one has ever actively prevented you from seeking out alternative care, or additional insurance to cover the deficiencies in the (extremely high) minimum that is treated as your right as a citizen.

............................................

How is it that so many just don't get that socialized single payer healthcare is just one form of healthcare insurance that covers the vast majority of our important needs-- not a limitless artesian fountain of love. The complaints I hear are primarily based in bizarre expectations, rather than in a realistic grasp of what is doable/ a bizarre understanding of their own rights, responsibilities, freedoms and options.

bush_cheney2004 · August 7, 2009

...What you can't do in Canada is a buy place in the line here ahead of someone who needs the service more... and frankly, I figure it's a good thing that need, rather than wealth, is the most important healthcare criterion.

OK, so what is the legal mechanism to enforce that, beyond simple denial of compensation to the provider? Who is the arbiter within a province? How would anyone know that the line has been jumped?

What is the legal penalty for doing so?

I think you're right...this myth has no legal teeth...just financial. Gonna load me an MRI machine into my pickup truck and head north for a new gold rush.

August 7, 2009

OK, so what is the legal mechanism to enforce that, beyond simple denial of compensation to the provider? Who is the arbiter within a province? How would anyone know that the line has been jumped?
What is the legal penalty for doing so?

I think you're right...this myth has no legal teeth...just financial. Gonna load me an MRI machine into my pickup truck and head north for a new gold rush.

There are private clinics that do MRI and even some surgeries there is a clinic I know in Vancouver that does a complete physical but it takes 8 hours. They're technically illegal but no one is in a rush to shut them down.

bush_cheney2004 · August 7, 2009

There are private clinics that do MRI and even some surgeries there is a clinic I know in Vancouver that does a complete physical but it takes 8 hours. They're technically illegal but no one is in a rush to shut them down.

Thanks...but what makes them technically illegal? Can't be the CHA in general, as this is a provincial matter.

Has anyone ever been fined and/or imprisoned for giving a line jumper an MRI for private pay? ( I can't believe I just typed such a question.)