Canadian Defends Anti-Medicare Ad

[Guest TrueMetis]

I heard Shona Holmes on the Charles Adler show, hosted by Roy Green, just last week. I think it was Wednesday.

She has been called a liar and queue jumper and traitor and all that but she hasn't anything against the Canadian healthsystem. She is only stating the facts of her case. Some people of course have an immediately defensive reaction.

The facts of her case are that she tried to get OHIP to send her to the States for quicker service as had 36 others been sent at around the same time period. The process was denied or held up, I can't recall which, but she didn't have time to wait around. Denied or approved, it would have meant lost time.

Anyway when she returned she applied for a reimbursement. She is suing the government for not being able to buy healthcare in Canada. I think that is a legitimate complaint. It is more costly to go to the US than if she could have bought the service here. And to deny someone health care on the basis of making the purchase of medical services illegal is an abuse of human rights.

Anyway she is not entirely healthy now and is still struggling but she is not dead. She also said she did not receive payment for her contribution to the ad. But I wouldn't have held it against her if she did.

She thanks her husband, who is working two jobs to pay the bills.

What I hold against her is that she keeps calling her cyst a tumor and a one point said she had brain cancer which she did not. She also acts like she would have died when odds are she wouldn't have. She's lying and she knows she's lying. Although she could have gone bling which is pretty bad, I wonder if it would have been permanent though?

Edited July 26, 2009 by TrueMetis

[bush_cheney2004]

....The facts of her case are that she tried to get OHIP to send her to the States for quicker service as had 36 others been sent at around the same time period. The process was denied or held up, I can't recall which, but she didn't have time to wait around. Denied or approved, it would have meant lost time.

Now that is an interesting angle. How widespread is the knowledge and expectation that Canadians can request and receive care in the United States as part of the provincial "system"?

[bush_cheney2004]

What I hold against her is that she keeps calling her cyst a tumor and a one point said she had brain cancer which she did not.

She didn't know what it was until properly diagnosed.....in the USA.

Certain types of cysts are tumors or associated with tumors.

[Pliny]

I can swat anti-Canadian health care posts out of the air with not only personal experience but stats and cookie goodness.

Are you saying there is no fault in the Canadian system?

A lot of the problems in the Canadian health care system are actually problems globally in the medical system. Doctors are too cowed to think for themselves and go about their business per the laid out procedures as advised by their various associations and legal and insurance representatives.

Follow those guidelines and you are protected by the weight of the authority of the medical profession disregard them at your own peril.

Generally, the discussion in Canada about health care is about cost and maintaining the status quo at any cost. Budget cuts to health care are actually cuts to increases in the annual budget not cuts to the budget itself. Isn't that something? When I hear the NDP railing about cuts to health care spending I get the idea the budgets are actually being cut but they are talking about a cut to the annual increase.

Economics will trump any system. If consumers are not willing to pay the cost for the product the product sits on the shelf.

In a single payer socialized system it takes consumers longer to realize the cost is too high. Consumers in the States know the cost is too high and are looking for change, Canadians know the cost is high, don't mind it going higher, and don't want change. HMOs and government regulation regarding health care insurance makes change by the consumer difficult but not impossible.

The medical systems in both countries suffer from the "too big to fail syndrome" but only the States can make the choice for change. It may be for some form of socialized government run scheme but it may not be.

[Guest TrueMetis]

She didn't know what it was until properly diagnosed.....in the USA.

Certain types of cysts are tumors or associated with tumors.

A cyst is a closed sac having a distinct membrane and division on the nearby tissue. It may contain air, fluids, or semi-solid material. A collection of pus is called an abscess, not a cyst. Once formed, a cyst could go away on its own or may have to be removed through surgery.

Wiki Cyst

A tumor or tumour is the name for a swelling or lesion formed by an abnormal growth of cells (termed neoplastic).[1] Tumor is not synonymous with cancer. A tumor can be benign, pre-malignant or malignant, whereas cancer is by definition malignant.

Wiki Tumour

Not the same thing

And this was a Rathke cleft cyst which according to a study has a very low mortality rate.

Mortality associated with RCCs is extremely rare. In a study conducted by Shin and colleagues, the mortality rate was 0%, and the recurrence rate was 19%.2 In the literature, recurrence rates typically are lower, commonly 5-10%; however, Mukherjee co-authors reported a recurrence rate of 33%.3

Rathke Cleft Cyst

She was diagnosed in the US so she should be reimbursed for that because it could have been serious but she could have waited for the operation to drain it.

[bush_cheney2004]

...The medical systems in both countries suffer from the "too big to fail syndrome" but only the States can make the choice for change. It may be for some form of socialized government run scheme but it may not be.

Right...which was Holmes' point...there is no change agent or champion in Canada's status quo, circle-the-wagons system...the Americans are at least attempting change.

[Pliny]

Now that is an interesting angle. How widespread is the knowledge and expectation that Canadians can request and receive care in the United States as part of the provincial "system"?

The information is available but it is not broadly disseminated or made note of in the media.

Remember, the scandal of psychiatric patients being offered vacations that would be paid for by their health insurance? All they had to do was sign up and they could fly to Florida, or wherever and stay for as long as their premiums would allow them. Some people didn't like their diagnosis or the treatment. The Canadian system was bilked for millions in that. There were several schemes but I remember one particularly that was run in Texas by a Canadian Doctor.

I think the time line was in the mid to late nineties.

[Pliny]

What I hold against her is that she keeps calling her cyst a tumor and a one point said she had brain cancer which she did not. She also acts like she would have died when odds are she wouldn't have. She's lying and she knows she's lying. Although she could have gone bling which is pretty bad, I wonder if it would have been permanent though?

I watched a video interview with her and it seems she had RCC as well as a cancerous brain tumor and she received treatment for both.

I think you need to do a little more research before condemning her. Your claims led me to do some more research and my findings are you haven't done enough of a proper search.

[Smallc]

She didn't know what it was until properly diagnosed.....in the USA.

Or so she says.

[Smallc]

I watched a video interview with her and it seems she had RCC as well as a cancerous brain tumor and she received treatment for both.

She didn't have brain cancer.

[Werecar]

Then I wonder why we still call it fee-for-service?

Sure...if you wait long enough or get sent to the USA by the province.

You wanna live forever?

Look what up? Sultans don't fly to your area...they fly to mine (Mayo Clinic)....you have nothing that even comes close.

Alta was right...you are an ass with a special interest in play. Behold the mighty lab tech!

I suggest you go back and read exactly where he got insulting first and got the response he deserved. Calling all health care workers who support our system is just plain ignorant and under a US style system I'd be making more money so its downright illogical as well. If I willing support a system that pays me less money I must be doing it for a reason.

[benny]

Look what up? Sultans don't fly to your area...they fly to mine (Mayo Clinic)....you have nothing that even comes close.

The US has no sultan or monarch as citizen because it doesn't share the views of these persons on social justice.

[bush_cheney2004]

The information is available but it is not broadly disseminated or made note of in the media....

That just reinforces the notion that provincial planning and budgeting includes the overt utilization of US health care facilities. Perhaps what was an exception has become the status quo (e.g. neo-natal beds).

[bush_cheney2004]

The US has no sultan or monarch as citizen because it doesn't share the views of these persons on social justice.

But the US does share their views when it come to being able to buy the best health care possible. Sultans fly to Mayo Rochester and bring the family along to do some shopping at the Mall of America. Ka-ching!

[Jerry J. Fortin]

But the US does share their views when it come to being able to buy the best health care possible. Sultans fly to Mayo Rochester and bring the family along to do some shopping at the Mall of America. Ka-ching!

A two pointer!!!

[punked]

But the US does share their views when it come to being able to buy the best health care possible. Sultans fly to Mayo Rochester and bring the family along to do some shopping at the Mall of America. Ka-ching!

Then they go home and up the price of oil and slow US grow out of the Recession. KA-ching indeed.

Edited July 26, 2009 by punked

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Then they go home and up the price of oil and slow US grow out of the Recession. KA-ching indeed.

That works for me and Alberta too!

[bush_cheney2004]

I suggest you go back and read exactly where he got insulting first and got the response he deserved. Calling all health care workers who support our system is just plain ignorant and under a US style system I'd be making more money so its downright illogical as well. If I willing support a system that pays me less money I must be doing it for a reason.

Your choices are your own and require no justification, but in turn you dismissed his personal experience and choice to mitigate risk in the future. Both sides in this debate often paint with broad brushes, myself included. I'm sure that your lab is a professional and effective facility in all respects, but it (and Ontario) do not have a monopoly on such things. If you do not support changes to your "system", then the perception is that you are satisfied with the status quo.

[bush_cheney2004]

Then they go home and up the price of oil and slow US grow out of the Recession. KA-ching indeed.

The price of oil is very unstable, and far less important than supply.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

We have lots up here in the frozen chosen. Want to buy some?

[Werecar]

Your choices are your own and require no justification, but in turn you dismissed his personal experience and choice to mitigate risk in the future. Both sides in this debate often paint with broad brushes, myself included. I'm sure that your lab is a professional and effective facility in all respects, but it (and Ontario) do not have a monopoly on such things. If you do not support changes to your "system", then the perception is that you are satisfied with the status quo.

Don't hand me that. I noticed you didn't call him out when he was acting like and ass and then you yourself acted like an ass to me thereby further exposing your hypocrisy.

As for not supporting changes and/or improvements to the system well thats just nonsense. We debate how to improve the system all the time. Don't mistake supporting universal health care with some false belief that we think everything is okey-dokey.

[bush_cheney2004]

Don't hand me that. I noticed you didn't call him out when he was acting like and ass and then you yourself acted like an ass to me thereby further exposing your hypocrisy.

Ok....it is apparent that you prefer being an ass. That's OK....you didn't even know how a burn center operates.

As for not supporting changes and/or improvements to the system well thats just nonsense. We debate how to improve the system all the time. Don't mistake supporting universal health care with some false belief that we think everything is okey-dokey.

Talk is cheap...what would you change instead of believing everything is OK if only compared to the United States?

Item: Why is there such a wide variation in revascularization rates within Ontario and across provinces?

Edited July 26, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[Werecar]

Ok....it is apparent that you prefer being an ass. That's OK....you didn't even know how a burn center operates.

Right back at you sunshine. You complain about me behaviour yet you didn't say thing one about him being an ass to me first.

I do know about a burn centre and its obvious you guys don't understand how the US medical system works in the least.

Talk is cheap...what would you change instead of believing everything is OK if only compared to the United States?

In other words you don't understand my POV at all do you? I don't believe everything is OK. I believe Canada's universal health care is a superior system for providing health care for its citizens.

It seems to me that other then complaining about the system you guys don't have much to contribute about how to improve it other then posting myths about wait times and Canadians streaming across the border to get treatment they can't get here.

[benny]

But the US does share their views when it come to being able to buy the best health care possible.

Sultans are able to buy the best health care possible because they exploit their populations.

[bush_cheney2004]

Right back at you sunshine. You complain about me behaviour yet you didn't say thing one about him being an ass to me first.

I am not the official arbiter of "ass", but you certainly fit the bill.

I do know about a burn centre and its obvious you guys don't understand how the US medical system works in the least.

Sorry, you have no credibility at all when it comes to the USA, let alone specific burn center operating procedures. You thought it was all ER services....laughable.

In other words you don't understand my POV at all do you? I don't believe everything is OK. I believe Canada's universal health care is a superior system for providing health care for its citizens.

Superior to what? Botswana?

It seems to me that other then complaining about the system you guys don't have much to contribute about how to improve it other then posting myths about wait times and Canadians streaming across the border to get treatment they can't get here.

Wrong...other members have offered up ideas for changes, ideas readily available in other nations and documented as "superior". You, on the other hand, are a shill and prefer to debate the preservation of a broke-dick system.