Rabbis for Human Rights

[kuzadd]

Gush Shalom and Rabbis for Human Rights

Background: Since the occupation in 1967, Israel took control over most of the water sources in the West Bank, and uses them for Israeli clients and especially for settlers. The mountain aquifer is considered a joint (Palestinian-Israeli) water reservoir that Israel is permitted to use – but not in the current way when 80% of the water is taken by Israel and the remaining 20% are allocated to the millions of Palestinian inhabitants.

Rabbis for Human Rights NA

people cooperating together, people facing reality.

the video is about 9 minutes long but is really worth watching.

Edited July 22, 2009 by kuzadd

[KrustyKidd]

people cooperating together, people facing reality.

the video is about 9 minutes long but is really worth watching.

Your point is ........?

[DogOnPorch]

Not sure...but the Jordan River is an issue on many levels. We'd call the thing a creek. It has been overtaxed by water projects and human waste from Israel, Jordan, Syria and the West Bank. From an environmental POV...it's a disaster. It's amazing folks still get baptized in it....ewww.

Basically, if something isn't done, the Jordan could run dry...and thus the Dead Sea, et al. But perhaps the cloud will have a silver lining, forcing cooperation betwen all sides in order to fix the problem.

Not as bad as the Ganges, though. Now that's disgusting.

But, I suppose there are MANY rivers in danger these days from overuse by humans. Perhaps that's what this is about.

[kuzadd]

Your point is ........?

Did you watch the entire video?

[KrustyKidd]

Did you watch the entire video?

Yes. And your point is........?

[Bonam]

Gush Shalom and Rabbis for Human Rights

Rabbis for Human Rights NA

people cooperating together, people facing reality.

the video is about 9 minutes long but is really worth watching.

POSTING CONTENT

All posts must contain some aspect of an argument or attempt to stimulate discussion. Simply posting a URL to an outside source or posting statements that are only one or two sentences long will not be tolerated and the post will be deleted. In addition, use the search feature to ensure that the topic you are posting is not already being discussed somewhere else in the forums.

[kuzadd]

POSTING CONTENT

All posts must contain some aspect of an argument or attempt to stimulate discussion. Simply posting a URL to an outside source or posting statements that are only one or two sentences long will not be tolerated and the post will be deleted. In addition, use the search feature to ensure that the topic you are posting is not already being discussed somewhere else in the forums.

I did not simply post a url

I wrote this

people cooperating together, people facing reality.

the video is about 9 minutes long but is really worth watching.

an attempt to stimulate discussion does not require a paragraph.

Had people took time to watch the video they could then have freely come back and shared their feelings.

Or with the info posted, or sent a donation to help the campaign

I liked the video, and thought it demonstrated a positive aspect of cooperating to a solution, also it was a background as to who the organization is that is asking for funds to help fight the water restrictions imposed by Israel. It demonstrates positive works, as opposed to oppression.

How about you Bonam, did you like the cooperative aspect of the people working together from different religions? Ethnicities?

oh and I am certain the moderator could have deleted the post, if it was non-conforming to forum rules, as that does happen here.

Edited July 23, 2009 by kuzadd

[DogOnPorch]

I did not simply post a url

I wrote this

an attempt to stimulate discussion does not require a paragraph.

Had people took time to watch the video they could then have freely come back and shared their feelings.

Or with the info posted, or sent a donation to help the campaign

Yes...putting folks on the ignore list because you don't like what they have to say is indeed stimulating towards conversation.

I liked the video, and thought it demonstrated a positive aspect of cooperating to a solution, also it was a background as to who the organization is that is asking for funds to help fight the water restrictions imposed by Israel. It demonstrates positive works, as opposed to oppression.

Well, I saw a bunch of leftardy American Jews.

How about you Bonam, did you like the cooperative aspect of the people working together from different religions? Ethnicities?

No..he hates cooperation between peoples and detests peace. Just like everyone other than yourself and dub.

[dub]

they're nothing more than self-hating jews.

[kuzadd]

they're nothing more than self-hating jews.

dub are you feeling facetious?

[dub]

dub are you feeling facetious?

i'm trying to save time for the war crimes apologists.

[Bonam]

I liked the video, and thought it demonstrated a positive aspect of cooperating to a solution, also it was a background as to who the organization is that is asking for funds to help fight the water restrictions imposed by Israel. It demonstrates positive works, as opposed to oppression.

How about you Bonam, did you like the cooperative aspect of the people working together from different religions? Ethnicities?

I haven't had a chance to watch the video. There are many situations in which a person is able to read the text of posts on these forums but can't realistically watch videos. That's why if you're trying to make a point and stimulate discussion, you should post at least a summary of what one would find in an article/video that you link.

[kuzadd]

i'm trying to save time for the war crimes apologists.

i understand, good point.

[kuzadd]

I haven't had a chance to watch the video. There are many situations in which a person is able to read the text of posts on these forums but can't realistically watch videos. That's why if you're trying to make a point and stimulate discussion, you should post at least a summary of what one would find in an article/video that you link.

well then, when possible, you watch the video, ok?

and hey while your at it send a donation to the good rabbis, I am sure they would appreciate it.

[Bonam]

well then, when possible, you watch the video, ok?

and hey while your at it send a donation to the good rabbis, I am sure they would appreciate it.

Well, I've watched the video. What it shows is what has been clearly stated on these boards before - even in the midst of this decades long conflict, Jews continue to reach out for peace. Now show me an Arab/Muslim organization that brings Muslims from around the world to Israel to better understand and empathize with the Israeli position...

[dub]

Well, I've watched the video. What it shows is what has been clearly stated on these boards before - even in the midst of this decades long conflict, Jews continue to reach out for peace. Now show me an Arab/Muslim organization that brings Muslims from around the world to Israel to better understand and empathize with the Israeli position...

i don't think there would be any peace groups (arab or non-arab) who can better understand or is able to justify israel's violations of international law and violation of humanitarian laws.

there are, however, many groups who speak out against violence on the part of palestinian militants.

[KrustyKidd]

i don't think there would be any peace groups (arab or non-arab) who can better understand or is able to justify israel's violations of international law and violation of humanitarian laws.

there are, however, many groups who speak out against violence on the part of palestinian militants.

Can you provide the websites of these Arab/Muslim groups please Dub?

[JB Globe]

What a bunch of antisemites . . .

And when I say antisemites, I mean those people who aren't militant-ultra-nationalist-zionists.

[dub]

Can you provide the websites of these Arab/Muslim groups please Dub?

no.

you can do it yourself. it's a google search away.

now, show me one peace organization that supports israel's use of military force and supports israel's occupation and expansion of settlements. because i googled and didn't find any such group.

[kuzadd]

Well, I've watched the video. What it shows is what has been clearly stated on these boards before - even in the midst of this decades long conflict, Jews continue to reach out for peace. Now show me an Arab/Muslim organization that brings Muslims from around the world to Israel to better understand and empathize with the Israeli position...

well then you missed the christians and muslims in the video.

BTW not all Jewish persons reach out for peace in the ME, mostly just the 'self-haters', some espouse very loudly views of conquest, colonialism, the right to land granted to them by god, but never peace, never peace.

By that I mean real peace for all the people, not only peace, and land, and water and energy for the one.

[KrustyKidd]

no.

you can do it yourself. it's a google search away.

now, show me one peace organization that supports israel's use of military force and supports israel's occupation and expansion of settlements. because i googled and didn't find any such group.

I can't find any Dub. Nor could I find a peace organization that supports ' israel's use of military force and supports israel's occupation and expansion of settlements.'

So, can you please provide proof that

there are, however, many groups who speak out against violence on the part of palestinian militants.

[dub]

I can't find any Dub. Nor could I find a peace organization that supports ' israel's use of military force and supports israel's occupation and expansion of settlements.'

exactly.

no peace organizations or human rights organizations will ever condone israel's breaking of international law which includes the blockades, the settlements and the disproportionate attacks on gaza that has killed over 900 civilians.

So, can you please provide proof that

all the human rights organizations and all the peace organizations i've seen, condemn hamas' illegal actions. just like they condemn israel's.

here is http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/publish/mission.shtml (don't be shy about joining it)

Palestinians must stop suicide bombings and other attacks on Israeli civilians.

[dub]

that's right. you wanted a palestinian organization. these groups are only a google search away. not sure why you didn't find any. i don't think you looked hard enough.

http://www.hanania.com/palestinianpeacenow.htm

Our agenda is very simple and clear. We do not negotiate peace, but we do advocate for peace and compromise and the following issues (generally expressed below):

* Call for an independent Palestinian state with sovereignty in the West Bank, Gaza Strip and most of East Jerusalem (or in a shared Jerusalem). This means a Palestinian State that is viable and includes most of the land -- with only minor modifications made through land-for-land swaps. We need a movement to define exactly what we are expecting because clearly, Israelis are not hearing us.

* Recognize Israel's sovereignty and security generally within the 1967 borders (some minor changes based on negotiations). This means accepting Israel as a Jewish State and saying it the way they need to hear it. We support a two-state solution, one Jewish and one Palestinian, both secure, sovereign and in borders defined pre-1967.

* Support of the PRINCIPLE of the Palestinian Right of Return, but recognize that clarity for both sides must be realized. Israelis and Palestinians should accept that some refugees are expected to be allowed to return to former homes or lands in Israel.

It is not possible, not realistic to expect all Palestinians will return. Some have established lives in other countries. But, we ask that Israel recognize its responsibilities to compensate the refugees and consider all family reunification seriously.

We insist that Israel recognize its responsibility for causing the refugee problem and make every effort to work to compensate the refugees for the homes and lands that they lost. We would support similar demands made by Jews who fled Arab countries in the same manner.

* Jerusalem -- a negotiated agreement that either results in sharing or Palestinian sovereignty in those areas of East Jerusalem that are not Jewish (the Wailing Wall plaza and Jewish sectors of East Jerusalem should rightly belong to the Israelis). Decided through negotiations.

* A complete removal and dismantling of all settlements in the West Bank, Gaza Strip.

* The negotiated status of certain settlements in or around Jerusalem that have been annexed into Israel (such as Ariel and Gilo, a settlement originally created as a security post that has since become a "Jerusalem neighborhood). The status of these settlements should be determined by negotiations and discussions and their futures based on equal land trades.

* A firm stand against all forms of violence, but specifically by being responsible for those forms of violence that come from our community, specifically and clear, separate denunciation of violence by Palestinians against Israel. Why make this demand? Because we are responsible for ourselves. We cannot demand that Israel's government stop the violence against Palestinians if we do not first demand that we stop the violence against Israelis. This is a moral position we must accept and does not undermine our right to demand forcefully that Israel's government end its violence against Palestinians.

* A call for Palestinians and Israelis to return to the formal negotiation process. To build a strong voice by both sides demanding that the representatives of both sides go back to the table and negotiate.

* A call for both sides to bring the volume of anger and hatred down to a level that replaces emotion with reasoned and positive-intended passion. We can argue and we can disagree, but we don't need to hate.

[M.Dancer]

Do they have any other members besides an american radio talk show host?

[Bonam]

* Recognize Israel's sovereignty and security generally within the 1967 borders (some minor changes based on negotiations). This means accepting Israel as a Jewish State and saying it the way they need to hear it. We support a two-state solution, one Jewish and one Palestinian, both secure, sovereign and in borders defined pre-1967.

Apparently they can't even decide what borders they will accept. First sentence says 1967 borders, last sentence says pre-1967 borders. Quite a big difference there.