Federal Funding of Gay Pride Parade

[M.Dancer]

C$2 Million donated to support the Calgary Stampede.....funny how that works.

I'm totally against the Calgary Pride Stampede getting money too.

\Grown men in chaps indeed.

[capricorn]

Me too. And don't get me started about the horse that had a heart attack brought on by the stress of the chariot chuckwagon race.

[Topaz]

In the folowing video, it is be reported that Harper didn't do anything about UNTIL he heard his Tory supporters were upset and that is why he did what he did. http://watch.ctv.ca/news/#clip191158

[Melanie_]

Can't help but wonder which is causing the most gnashing of teeth among the morally outraged sect, that funding was used to support a cultural/social event, or that it was used to support a gay event. Somehow I doubt we would be hearing such outrage or anti-funding posts had an equal amount or even double the amount of money was donated to support a Conservative Christian Pride Week. Plus I noticed, that no one has yet spoken up against the C$2 Million donated to support the Calgary Stampede.....funny how that works.

I agree, Sabre Rider. Its also interesting that Trost immediately tried to appease the Conservative Christian right, by reassuring the pro-life and pro-family movements that the funding didn't reflect official government policy. What specific policy does he refer to, and why is it more relevent to those groups than to the rest of us? Is the nonsupport of the majority of MPs based on government policy, or personal beliefs? Regardless of what individual MPs believe, if a group qualifies for funding, according to whatever objective measures have been established, they should be entitled to that funding. From dobbin's link:

"The pro-life and the pro-family community should know and understand that the tourism funding money that went to the gay pride parade in Toronto was not government policy, was not supported by - I think it's safe to say by a large majority - of the MPs. This was a very isolated decision."

[Dave_ON]

Probably the 'right' corner if you want to be more accurate. It's a little sick sometimes. I went to a beer promotion once that was going on during the Pride Parade (friends of mine work at a certain brewery downtown Toronto) and some of the dudes there were wearing buttless/frontless chaps etc.

They get away with a lot that weekend.

Ummm... aren't chaps buttless and frontless by definition? Otherwise they'd be pants. However, I digress. Not a surprise that this site went over the top of their descriptions of the TO pride parade. Public nudity, well yes it happens, public sex acts, ummm never. I've been to TO pride personally on many occasions and it's a wild party in some places, but the parade itself is relatively tame. It's certainly no more raucous than Caribana which is another popular TO event.

The problem with these family groups is they don't realize how much revenue Pride week generates for the city of Toronto. It's the largest event in NA and people from all over NA attend. Hotels are booked solid months in advance, you can't get a seat anywhere in or around the village at a restaurant without waiting 1 hour plus. Reality is Pride has been funded at the civic, provincial and federal levels for the last few years because it IS such a revenue generator. Last year’s estimated attendance was 1.2 million, that’s significantly larger than the cultural Carabana festival and not much smaller than the Santa Clause parade. I personally don’t see much of a difference in funding any of the three of these parades. You’ll find people that will give reasons why anyone of them shouldn’t be funded. Bottom line is, they’re all good for the bottom line and all fits well within the realm of tourism. The truth is we have a budget set aside for tourism events, it only stands to reason that the largest events in Canada are going to get the lion’s share of that money.

Like it or lump it the gays, especially gay men, have a lot more disposable income than straight people, it's par for the course of not having children. They spend it at pride and the city, province and country reaps the lucrative rewards. It may not be a smart political move in some circles but certainly is a fiscally smart one. I’m disappointed, but not at all surprised, at the CPC’s reaction and handling of this situation.

[Shakeyhands]

I wonder how much money was pumped in to the local economy via the Pride parade.

[Dave_ON]

Can't help but wonder which is causing the most gnashing of teeth among the morally outraged sect, that funding was used to support a cultural/social event, or that it was used to support a gay event. Somehow I doubt we would be hearing such outrage or anti-funding posts had an equal amount or even double the amount of money was donated to support a Conservative Christian Pride Week. Plus I noticed, that no one has yet spoken up against the C$2 Million donated to support the Calgary Stampede.....funny how that works.

Wow I didn't realize the stampede got THAT much money, but then again it is a huge tourist draw from all over NA. I personally think chaps, denim shirts and cowboy hats look ridiculous but I respect a man’s right to sport them should he so choose; Even if it is with the assistance of my tax dollars. Cultural events are important to a country, and the stampede, as with the TO pride and other such parades are large part of that.

I think Sabre Rider hit the nail on the head, it's not about the amount of money it's the fact that the money went to a Gay Pride event. At least posters such as lictor are up front about their true motivations for opposing it. Unfortunately for them the parade will continue as it always has whether they like it or not.

[Shakeyhands]

Wow I didn't realize the stampede got THAT much money, but then again it is a huge tourist draw from all over NA. I personally think chaps, denim shirts and cowboy hats look ridiculous but I respect a man’s right to sport them should he so choose; Even if it is with the assistance of my tax dollars. Cultural events are important to a country, and the stampede, as with the TO pride and other such parades are large part of that.

I think Sabre Rider hit the nail on the head, it's not about the amount of money it's the fact that the money went to a Gay Pride event. At least posters such as lictor are up front about their true motivations for opposing it. Unfortunately for them the parade will continue as it always has whether they like it or not.

I found it interesting that in the CTV video that one of the highlighted groups were dressed as cowboys, minus the gawdy checked shirts of course...

[M.Dancer]

I wonder how much money was pumped in to the local economy via the Pride parade.

A lot. Millions. 100 of them to be exact.

http://www.pridetoronto.com/downloads/Econ...ssment_2006.pdf

Which is why it should be a local inititive. Never the less, I wonder why they needed the funding at all given the quality of the sponsors and the opportunity for them to reach a lucrative market.

http://www.pridetoronto.com/sponsor/sponsors/

http://www.pridetoronto.com/sponsor/village-partners/

[Dave_ON]

I wonder how much money was pumped in to the local economy via the Pride parade.

Most people would be suprised, and those who oppose it of course won't believe it.

http://www.xtra.ca/public/Toronto/Pride_To...usion-6662.aspx

According to Pride Toronto, Pride Week draws as much as $100 million to the local economy and generates $18 million in tax revenue for governments.

So $18 million in tax revenue, even if that is a generous estimate the amount of return the Feds received in tax revenues for a paltry 400k investment is staggering.

Assuming of course that Ontario gets about 2/3's of that as the provincial tax rate is 8% and the Feds get about 1/3 that's still close to $6 million in taxes. That's 15 times as much as they invested. So come on is it REALLY about the money or is it something else?

Fortunately the Provincial government is a little more forward thinking.

With much fanfare, openly gay MPP George Smitherman presented Pride Toronto with a cheque for $300,000 from the government of Ontario on Apr 22 to enhance Pride’s tourism initiatives.

“The Ontario government recognizes how important festivals such as Pride Week 2009 are in attracting tourism dollars to Ontario,” said Smitherman, the Liberal MPP who represents the riding of Toronto Centre which includes the Church-Wellesley Village. “This is an investment in the celebration of diversity as well as a vital source of revenue for our local business owners.”

[Shakeyhands]

Most people would be suprised, and those who oppose it of course won't believe it.

http://www.xtra.ca/public/Toronto/Pride_To...usion-6662.aspx

So $18 million in tax revenue, even if that is a generous estimate the amount of return the Feds received in tax revenues for a paltry 400k investment is staggering.

Assuming of course that Ontario gets about 2/3's of that as the provincial tax rate is 8% and the Feds get about 1/3 that's still close to $6 million in taxes. That's 15 times as much as they invested. So come on is it REALLY about the money or is it something else?

Fortunately the Provincial government is a little more forward thinking.

Maybe they gave it to Clement because he is gay as well? They wouldn't want to be shown up by Smithermen..... just sayin'

[Argus]

I wonder how much money was pumped in to the local economy via the Pride parade.

I could not possibly care less. If it's good for the Toronto economy then let Toronto pay for it.

[Shakeyhands]

I could not possibly care less. If it's good for the Toronto economy then let Toronto pay for it.

I imagine it's good for Canada. I have no issue with any worthy group receiving federal assistance no matter where they are, especially with those sort of returns, that btw, benefit us all. Guess that's just me though.

I bet they could even use some of the revenues brought in to help pay for your military spending that you like so much Argus... who knows.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Shakeyhands

[M.Dancer]

I imagine it's good for Canada. I have no issue with any worthy group receiving federal assistance no matter where they are, especially with those sort of returns, that btw, benefit us all. Guess that's just me though.

Thing is though...we would get the returns whether it was subsudized or not. Therefore the funding is wasted.

[Dave_ON]

Thing is though...we would get the returns whether it was subsudized or not. Therefore the funding is wasted.

I'd tend to disagree, the returns would have be there certainly but the more funding at their disposal the bigger the event the bigger the tourist draw. This is not a matter of Toronto Pride needing federal funds, It has substantial corporate backing and fund raisers of its own. There are plenty of corporations out there that want to appear gay friendly and are more than happy to accept gay money. The federal funds were just icing on the cake and enabled them to make the event that much better.

If we're going to fund events like the Calgary Stampede or the Ottawa Jazz Festival I see no problem in also funding the Toronto Pride event. They're really all the same, they're events that appeal to a limited group of people and arguably only benefit them directly. Public funds are utilized but the entire public doesn't reap the benefit of the spending if they don't enjoy that particular event. OTH they do get their money back plus the additional revenues generated by the event. So in my mind we either stop all funding to ANY event or we continue to fund Toronto Pride the same way we do with other "niche" celebrations.

[normanchateau]

This was a judgment error on the part of Ablonczy. I'm glad to see the funding budget for festivals has been taken away from her.

But the Harper government denies that Ablonczy lost control of the program because she funded the parade:

"Conservative MP Brad Trost, a critic of the Pride Week grant, is suggesting that the Harper government stripped Ms. Ablonczy of responsibility for the fund as a punishment.

He implied in an interview with LifeSiteNews.com, a socially conservative news service, that Ms. Ablonczy lost control of the $100-million Marquee Tourism Events Program because the gay pride grant embarrassed the Tories.

The Harper government, however, denies Ms. Ablonczy has been punished, saying it was always expected that she would eventually relinquish control of the program to Industry Minister Tony Clement. "She remains the Minister for Small Business and Tourism," said Darren Cunningham, Mr. Clement's director of communications."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nation...article1210367/

Social conservative Harper wants it both ways...appeasing the social conservatives while claiming just the opposite. Being truthful has never been one of his strengths.

It's reminiscent of his sleazy attempt to "revisit" same sex marriage in parliament in December, 2006. On the one hand, he claimed the "revisit" was because he had "promised" this to the social conservatives. On the other hand, while he voted for it, he absolved himself of appearing to be a social conservative by stating that he knew his motion would not pass.

Edited July 8, 2009 by normanchateau

[M.Dancer]

I'd tend to disagree, the returns would have be there certainly but the more funding at their disposal the bigger the event the bigger the tourist draw.

The bigger the event the bigger the sponsor ship opportunity and cost to the sponsors.

Does any know if Grey Cup Week gets subsidized? Sponsors fall over themselves to get involved. A company I know holds the Maxim Grey Cup party....100% sold out at over a grand a ticket with blue chip sponsors paying top $$

Edited July 8, 2009 by M.Dancer

[normanchateau]

"It may be the heartland of the ‘it’s Adam-and-Eve not Adam-and-Steve’ crowd, but Saskatoon still hosted a Pride Festival last month featuring family walks, a pub crawl, the obligatory gay parade and a prom night drag queen show.

The federal government reportedly found it worth $9,000 of your tax dollars to support this annual gay lifestyle celebration for the first time, courtesy of Heritage Minister James Moore.

Last I checked, Moore is still forking over cash to anyone who performs a decent headstand. Not so fortunate is Calgary MP Diane Ablonczy.

Diane Ablonczy was a serious political operator in the fledgling Reform party, which has evolved into the current Conservatives, in the late 1980s while a guy named Stephen Harper was still writing his masters thesis on the evils of government deficits.

She has proven repeatedly she deserves a senior job in the Harper government, both to enhance the calibre of female representation and to raise the collective cabinet IQ

But by taking steps to reduce her powers while leaving her largely undefended, the pride of Calgary remains weak in cabinet."

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/f...czy-s-fall.aspx

[ToadBrother]

"It may be the heartland of the ‘it’s Adam-and-Eve not Adam-and-Steve’ crowd, but Saskatoon still hosted a Pride Festival last month featuring family walks, a pub crawl, the obligatory gay parade and a prom night drag queen show.

The federal government reportedly found it worth $9,000 of your tax dollars to support this annual gay lifestyle celebration for the first time, courtesy of Heritage Minister James Moore.

Last I checked, Moore is still forking over cash to anyone who performs a decent headstand. Not so fortunate is Calgary MP Diane Ablonczy.

Diane Ablonczy was a serious political operator in the fledgling Reform party, which has evolved into the current Conservatives, in the late 1980s while a guy named Stephen Harper was still writing his masters thesis on the evils of government deficits.

She has proven repeatedly she deserves a senior job in the Harper government, both to enhance the calibre of female representation and to raise the collective cabinet IQ

But by taking steps to reduce her powers while leaving her largely undefended, the pride of Calgary remains weak in cabinet."

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/f...czy-s-fall.aspx

I expect that Ablonczy, being a hold-over from the Manning era, and someone who Manning seemed to have an awful lot of respect for, is precisely the kind of person that Harper would loathe. Harper despises Manning (much as Manning despises a guy he justifiably views as a two-bit hanger-on with the scruples of a one-eyed alley cat), and Ablonczy represents precisely those halcyon days when the main leader of conservatism in this country was a guy with the human touch and who did inspire grudging respect even in his opponents. All Harper musters is contempt, even from half his party, who are currently beholden to him because the whole caucus is like a Mexican standoff.

[August1991]

If we're going to fund events like the Calgary Stampede or the Ottawa Jazz Festival I see no problem in also funding the Toronto Pride event.

I see a difference between funding the Calgary Stampede and funding the Toronto Gay Parade. Dave, if the government subsidizes a gay group, don't you think it should also subsidize/fund lifesite.com?

But Dave, you're on to something here.

If the government starts to fund/subsidize various activities, then it ultimately has to pick winners and losers. (And by the same token, what corruption will take place so that the winners get chosen?)

One solution would be to fund/subsidize many different angles and viewpoints but that's just an invitation to invent multiple viewpoints/angles to get the money. Another solution would be to pass the funding/subsidy decision off to an independent, expert body. But then, isn't that why we elect MPs and have a government? If the democratic government in place decides to subsidize/fund Group A and not Group B, then I guess that's the way democracy works, no?

Which just brings us back to the point of departure - should a government pick winners and losers?

-----

I'm with Argus on this. The federal government should in general not be subsidizing/funding any of this stuff. Leave it to local, municipal councils to do this - assuming that they have any tax money left over after garbage pickup and snow removal.

[Smallc]

Why should municipal councils be picking winners and losers if the federal government shouldn't?

Edited July 9, 2009 by Smallc

[ToadBrother]

Why should municipal councils be picking winners and losers if the federal government shouldn't.

Because it won't embarrass all the far right Evangelical-types that dominate the Conservative Party.

[Dave_ON]

I see a difference between funding the Calgary Stampede and funding the Toronto Gay Parade. Dave, if the government subsidizes a gay group, don't you think it should also subsidize/fund lifesite.com?

I still fail to see the difference. You seem to imply that the Calgary Stampede is not a "lifestyle" choice which in fact it is, just like those who oppose gay pride events feel that being gay is a “lifestyle” choice. Do I enjoy the Calgary stampede or anything about it? Absolutely not, it's absolutely ridiculous in my never humble opinion but to each their own. I understand the tourist draw it is for Calgary and all the more power to those who do enjoy it, just not my cup of tea.

Further the government already does decide who gets funding and who does not. The Toronto Pride organization was not handed the money, they went through the entire application process like all the other organizations that got funding. It’s a stringent process and there are strict guidelines that need to be followed. Some organizations make the cut others do not. As for you assertion that the lifesite should get funding because the “gays” do its based on an erroneous assumption that they are opposite sides of the same coin. If lifesite can go through the same application process and prove that they are in fact a tourist draw and contribute to the cultural diversity of Canada than they will get funding to hold their cultural event. My guess is they wouldn’t be able to meet the standards.

The fact remains that the Toronto Pride organization went through the process and jumped through all the same hoops that other organizations did, like the Calgary stampede which means they have as much right to access tax payer funding as the rest do. That’s the rules that are in place, so the only option is to not fund anything. If you can prove to me on a fundamental level that the Calgary stampede is really all that different than Toronto Pride I’ll agree with you. Bottom line is they’re both completely unnecessary, and strictly cultural and niche entertainment events.

[Argus]

A lot. Millions. 100 of them to be exact.

You sure it wasn't a hundred billion? I mean, as long as they're inventing ridiculous numbers, why not make them even larger. Surely size DOES count in the gay community.

I note that their claim is for "pride week" and all the events which involve it. The claim is not for the parade, funded by the government.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Argus

[Argus]

I imagine it's good for Canada. I have no issue with any worthy group receiving federal assistance no matter where they are, especially with those sort of returns, that btw, benefit us all. Guess that's just me though.

I bet they could even use some of the revenues brought in to help pay for your military spending that you like so much Argus... who knows.

If this thing were profitable then Toronto could fund it.

As for the military - we are flying cheap civilian knock-off helicopters in Afghanistan right now so that the governmetn can have money to spend on things like gay pride parades, blonde joke books, and canoe museums. One of them went down the other day, killing two Canadians.

How much pride is there in that?