US greenhouse -gas bill

[Topaz]

When Harper came into power he was against the Kyoto, but now since Obama has taken over the reins in the US, Canada maybe the last getting the job done on clean air. How will Harper get Canada'a environment in order and stay up with the US and not harm his provinces oil sands? http://www.montrealgazette.com/Business/gr...1636/story.html

[Jerry J. Fortin]

When Harper came into power he was against the Kyoto, but now since Obama has taken over the reins in the US, Canada maybe the last getting the job done on clean air. How will Harper get Canada'a environment in order and stay up with the US and not harm his provinces oil sands? http://www.montrealgazette.com/Business/gr...1636/story.html

That needs to get nipped in the bud. Time to toss NAFTA or find new customers.

[CAMP]

That needs to get nipped in the bud. Time to toss NAFTA or find new customers.

I agree Jerry, we need to re-do NAFTA to create a level playing field for our manufacturing sector.

Mexico should never have been involved at a duty free level. Anytime a trade agreement with another country is put together you must consider the scale of their economy, and if the general population is similar to Canada's living standards. I have watched the gradual decline of our manufacturing base in areas other than automotive for the last 18 years. Finally it has hit home with the auto sector and is noticed. Unfortunately they did not fix the problem and I suspect you will see GM and others in trouble again in the future. Both Canada and the US are borrowing money at a record pace to hide the fact that our democratic countries are in deep trouble financially.

There needs to be a multi level attack on both limiting imports via duties as well as reducing the heavy tax burdens, and operating costs of manufacturing companies that actually manufacture in Canada and aren't just a pseudo assembler of parts brought in from other areas of the world and then call it MADE IN CANADA. Our previous governments have received large donations from the multinational companies to keep our borders open for them to import goods and drain the net worth of our countries wealth. To further exacerbate the problem we are dealing with a country (CHINA) who owns and controls their manufacturing base because they are communist.

We are treading on very dangerous ground here. Our democratic governments think that a world economy is all good in some sort of politically correct way and continue to support the largest communist country in the world by allowing importing with out much duty.

Don't kid yourself there is a large scale war going on in this world. This one doesn't use guns, bombs, or anything of that nature. China is a very smart communist country that knows the way to defeat a democracy is to tear its manufacturing base out of it, and they are doing that at a record pace. Soon you will see automobiles that no North American manufacturer will be able to compete with over here, and the last large vestige of manufacturing will dissipate to the Asian rim.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I agree Jerry, we need to re-do NAFTA to create a level playing field for our manufacturing sector.

Mexico should never have been involved at a duty free level. Anytime a trade agreement with another country is put together you must consider the scale of their economy, and if the general population is similar to Canada's living standards. I have watched the gradual decline of our manufacturing base in areas other than automotive for the last 18 years. Finally it has hit home with the auto sector and is noticed. Unfortunately they did not fix the problem and I suspect you will see GM and others in trouble again in the future. Both Canada and the US are borrowing money at a record pace to hide the fact that our democratic countries are in deep trouble financially.

There needs to be a multi level attack on both limiting imports via duties as well as reducing the heavy tax burdens, and operating costs of manufacturing companies that actually manufacture in Canada and aren't just a pseudo assembler of parts brought in from other areas of the world and then call it MADE IN CANADA. Our previous governments have received large donations from the multinational companies to keep our borders open for them to import goods and drain the net worth of our countries wealth. To further exacerbate the problem we are dealing with a country (CHINA) who owns and controls their manufacturing base because they are communist.

We are treading on very dangerous ground here. Our democratic governments think that a world economy is all good in some sort of politically correct way and continue to support the largest communist country in the world by allowing importing with out much duty.

Don't kid yourself there is a large scale war going on in this world. This one doesn't use guns, bombs, or anything of that nature. China is a very smart communist country that knows the way to defeat a democracy is to tear its manufacturing base out of it, and they are doing that at a record pace. Soon you will see automobiles that no North American manufacturer will be able to compete with over here, and the last large vestige of manufacturing will dissipate to the Asian rim.

Of course! Just remember that there is an awful lot of foreign investment in China. There are lots of western companies over there building factories and employing the lower paid folks who live there. There is a lot of capital tied up over there aside from the trade imbalance and the status of current accounts. In short what we have done is to facilitate the means of our own demise.

There is no normal way out of this one folks. We are tied to the Americans six ways from Sunday with NAFTA, and they are 80% of our export market. We have bet the farm on the USA, and we can see where it is going.

WE have one slim hope, and that is to rethink NAFTA and our trade relationships with all other nations. The WTO, the IMF, the World Bank, are all lined up to act against us. In order to actually address this issue it means we will have to make some very brave and potentially dangerous steps in our own defense. Western nations outside of the EEC face very real and imminent fiscal danger.

[CAMP]

Of course! Just remember that there is an awful lot of foreign investment in China. There are lots of western companies over there building factories and employing the lower paid folks who live there. There is a lot of capital tied up over there aside from the trade imbalance and the status of current accounts. In short what we have done is to facilitate the means of our own demise.

There is no normal way out of this one folks. We are tied to the Americans six ways from Sunday with NAFTA, and they are 80% of our export market. We have bet the farm on the USA, and we can see where it is going.

WE have one slim hope, and that is to rethink NAFTA and our trade relationships with all other nations. The WTO, the IMF, the World Bank, are all lined up to act against us. In order to actually address this issue it means we will have to make some very brave and potentially dangerous steps in our own defense. Western nations outside of the EEC face very real and imminent fiscal danger.

I give it about 5 years until all western nations hit the credit wall.

They only other thing I've heard from economists is that some how the US is going to fool everyone and create super inflation. This will de-value their money and so also de-value the amount they owed. Then they bring out a brand new American buck of some kind that all other American bucks are equal to 1/10th of or 1/100th of.

I think Germany did this way back when.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I give it about 5 years until all western nations hit the credit wall.

They only other thing I've heard from economists is that some how the US is going to fool everyone and create super inflation. This will de-value their money and so also de-value the amount they owed. Then they bring out a brand new American buck of some kind that all other American bucks are equal to 1/10th of or 1/100th of.

I think Germany did this way back when.

I think America will be reacting to outside pressures. For instance, removing the greenback as the benchmark and going to the EURO for bulk oil payments. That happens then the T-Bills get sold off and the dollar crashes. Right now energy is the limiting factor in economic growth and therefore the determining factor. It follows that nations with energy exports will have stronger valued currencies.The fly in the ointment is the treehugger gaining political influence. These folks will do our economy much harm unless properly dealt with.

[CAMP]

I think America will be reacting to outside pressures. For instance, removing the greenback as the benchmark and going to the EURO for bulk oil payments. That happens then the T-Bills get sold off and the dollar crashes. Right now energy is the limiting factor in economic growth and therefore the determining factor. It follows that nations with energy exports will have stronger valued currencies.The fly in the ointment is the treehugger gaining political influence. These folks will do our economy much harm unless properly dealt with.

Yes it will be interesting to see if the Greens have eclipsed. We will find out next election on that issue.

You are right that if the environmentalist pendulum swings too far to the radical side we will have a problem.

Any green initiatives should have fiscal responsibility tied to it.

[bush_cheney2004]

That needs to get nipped in the bud. Time to toss NAFTA or find new customers.

Neither will happen...because just as in air and water quality legislation, Canada has been a follower, not a leader.

Abbrogation of NAFTA would cause more economic harm (can't win that trade war), than any investment in "tree-hugger" regulation. The Americans slowed greenhouse gas emmissions more than Canada, and the US didn't even ratify Kyoto.

Finding new customers is easier said than done, and may be moot in the new fashionable "cap and trade" environment. Also, not too long ago it was American manufacturing jobs relocating to Canada.

...Nanticoke may finally get cleaned up after all.

[enlightment]

Neither will happen...because just as in air and water quality legislation, Canada has been a follower, not a leader.

Abbrogation of NAFTA would cause more economic harm (can't win that trade war), than any investment in "tree-hugger" regulation. The Americans slowed greenhouse gas emmissions more than Canada, and the US didn't even ratify Kyoto.

Finding new customers is easier said than done, and may be moot in the new fashionable "cap and trade" environment. Also, not too long ago it was American manufacturing jobs relocating to Canada.

...Nanticoke may finally get cleaned up after all.

I do believe that there is a need for everyone to know who are the REAL people behind all these wars.

The best way to know U.S. politics is to view " Obama Deception Full Length " on youtube.com

Also download the free Obama Deception Guide :

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13404412/The-Obama-Deception-Guide

There is no Left or Right in US politics , they are only acting in front of the camera. When off camera, the Left and the Right go to parties and dinner...etc.

The only people controlling the White House is the International Bankers and the US Presidency is only a puppet post.

For the explanation of all these wars in the past 100 years, please check out the link below and then read all the links of that site. One thing for sure, we have been sidetracked to petty issues while something deadly serious, threatening to Mankind is being secretly engineered.

http://nworesistance.com/war-and-conflict-explained.html

[bush_cheney2004]

I do believe that there is a need for everyone to know who are the REAL people behind all these wars.

I do believe you are spamming this forum.

[Wilber]

Americans slowed greenhouse gas emissions more than Canada, and the US didn't even ratify Kyoto.

True but it would be interesting to know how much of those Canadian emissions were as a result of oil sands production destined for the US. If Americans consume 70% of our exports, they are a major factor in our emissions. This is not to point a finger at Americans, we are no better when it comes to per capita consumption.

[bush_cheney2004]

True but it would be interesting to know how much of those Canadian emissions were as a result of oil sands production destined for the US. If Americans consume 70% of our exports, they are a major factor in our emissions. This is not to point a finger at Americans, we are no better when it comes to per capita consumption.

Could be, but that is not how this game is played. Even without exports to the US (offset by imports to Canada), per capita energy consumption is notoriously high for Canadians, if only because of climate.

[Shady]

How will Harper get Canada'a environment in order and stay up with the US and not harm his provinces oil sands?

Hopefully he doesn't. I don't want to destroy the Canadian economy, for what can only be described as shoddy and ideological science.

[enviralment]

We said that we were going to wait around to find out what Obama was going to do. No that he has made a decision we need to stop dragging our heels and make some fundamental changes to our energy consumption and the way that we look at fossil fuels.

[stranger little]

This is going to be a pivotal issue in the next election. If the libs can frame Harper as being backward in his energy, environmental policy (should be a walk in the park) they might get a majority.

[tango]

There needs to be a multi level attack on both limiting imports via duties as well as reducing the heavy tax burdens, and operating costs of manufacturing companies that actually manufacture in Canada and aren't just a pseudo assembler of parts brought in from other areas of the world and then call it MADE IN CANADA. Our previous governments have received large donations from the multinational companies to keep our borders open for them to import goods and drain the net worth of our countries wealth. To further exacerbate the problem we are dealing with a country (CHINA) who owns and controls their manufacturing base because they are communist.

Maybe a quibble but ... China controls everything because they are totalitarian, which does not necessarily equate to communism.

Certainly an interesting and informative conversation. Thanks.

Seems that to reduce greenhouse gases, every country has to be responsible not just for what they produce in their own country, but also what they cause to be produced elsewhere.

To me this points out the value of attaching the pollution costs to the products at the point of purchase, not production. It shouldn't be possible for a country to make reductions simply by shifting manufacturing to another country: We all breathe the same air, ultimately. It's reductions in pollution-prone activities everywhere that are necessary, and the costs of products should reflect their impact on the environment from beginning (eg mining) to end (disposing), imo.

[stranger little]

We need to start shifting away from traditional power sources to rid ourselves of Co2 emissions. We should be looking toward nuclear to replace coal. Pragmatism instead of nay-saying and fear mongering is what we need.

[kimmy]

I do believe that there is a need for everyone to know who are the REAL people behind all these wars.

The best way to know U.S. politics is to view " Obama Deception Full Length " on youtube.com

Also download the free Obama Deception Guide :

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13404412/The-Obama-Deception-Guide

Well thank god you came along.

I was just thinking the other day, that since the Black Helicopters took PolyNewbie away, there's been nobody to spray Alex Jones inspired dog-crap all over the forum. Thank heavens that somebody has come along to carry the torch.

Alex Jones: a true American patriot piece of crap.

-k