dub Posted July 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Straight out of the article you linked:That right there is the cause of the civilian casualties among the Palestinians. Anything else is twist. Don't launch rockets from civilian neighbourhoods and those neighbourhoods won't be targetted. Also don't forget that a large chunk of the 1300 dead were militants. says your opinion. rules of war say something else. deal with it. ps - majority of people killed were civilians with over 300 of them children. get your facts straight otherwise you end up looking like DoP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 says your opinion.rules of war say something else. deal with it. ps - majority of people killed were civilians with over 300 of them children. get your facts straight otherwise you end up looking like DoP. Could do a lot worse than looking like DoP, who makes a lot of sense. Heck, I could end up looking like you. Now that would be a real tragedy. As for rules of war, they are fiction. There is only one rule in war: Win. That is a rule that Western nations adhered to in WWII, but have since forgotten, as they have not faced real war since. Israel, on the other hand, faces a daily struggle for its existence, and so has not forgotten. Even so, they take greater care to avoid civilian casualties than could possibly be expected of them by anyone reasonable. Their precautions are far more stringent than what other nations take, such as for example the US in Iraq and Afghanistan. Their choice to uphold the values of human life, even the lives of their enemies who have sworn to destroy Israel, is just that: a choice. It is a choice made because Israeli society values human life, unlike the Palestinian society that you would have Israel capitulate to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Could do a lot worse than looking like DoP, who makes a lot of sense. Heck, I could end up looking like you. Now that would be a real tragedy. Beers are COLD and the steaks are JUICY at my house. I assume over at your house, as well. Certain posters I feel would be the type pickin' the bacon out of the baked potatoes and complaining about Neil Young being old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrustyKidd Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 says your opinion.rules of war say something else. deal with it. ps - majority of people killed were civilians with over 300 of them children. get your facts straight otherwise you end up looking like DoP. Hamas deliberately uses women and children as human shields to aid in attacking. They make for great bullet stoppers and, when they are killed, whining morons with no sense of right or wrong take the propaganda from Hamas and make a barrage of idiot threads berating Israel rather than the people who place the civilians in harms way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 majority of people killed were civilians with over 300 of them children. get your facts straight otherwise you end up looking like DoP. Too late Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Loved by the ladies. Oh well...when all they can do is take cheap shots like some hockey goon, you know they are essentially just hockey goons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted July 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Could do a lot worse than looking like DoP, who makes a lot of sense. Heck, I could end up looking like you. Now that would be a real tragedy. As for rules of war, they are fiction. There is only one rule in war: Win. That is a rule that Western nations adhered to in WWII, but have since forgotten, as they have not faced real war since. Israel, on the other hand, faces a daily struggle for its existence, and so has not forgotten. Even so, they take greater care to avoid civilian casualties than could possibly be expected of them by anyone reasonable. Their precautions are far more stringent than what other nations take, such as for example the US in Iraq and Afghanistan. Their choice to uphold the values of human life, even the lives of their enemies who have sworn to destroy Israel, is just that: a choice. It is a choice made because Israeli society values human life, unlike the Palestinian society that you would have Israel capitulate to. okay. so you're not much into following the geneva convention and international law. perhaps you should go live in the congo where they have the same view as you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted July 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Hamas deliberately uses women and children as human shields to aid in attacking. that's an example of you making shit up. here is me calling you a liar, again: contrary to repeated allegations by Israeli officials of the use of “human shields”, Amnesty International found no evidence that Hamas or other Palestinian fighters directed the movement of civilians to shield military objectives from attacks. It found no evidence that Hamas or other armed groups forced residents to stay in or around buildings used by fighters, nor that fighters prevented residents from leaving buildings or areas which had been commandeered by militants. from the report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 that's an example of you making shit up.here is me calling you a liar, again: contrary to repeated allegations by Israeli officials of the use of “human shields”, Amnesty International found no evidence that Hamas or other Palestinian fighters directed the movement of civilians to shield military objectives from attacks. It found no evidence that Hamas or other armed groups forced residents to stay in or around buildings used by fighters, nor that fighters prevented residents from leaving buildings or areas which had been commandeered by militants. from the report. Notice the careful wording and weaseling around the issue. They didn't "force residents to stay" or "prevent them from leaving". But it doesn't say they didn't set up shop in civilian buildings. And that is precisely what they did. When Hamas sets up shop in the only university in the territory, is everyone supposed to just get up and leave? When Hamas sets up on the roof of your apartment building, are you supposed to abandon your home? They're not "preventing you from leaving" after all. Hamas very clearly did put civilians directly in harms way. Those civilians may indeed have had the choice to leave, and probably were very stupid not to do so, but none of that makes it Israel's fault that civilians happened to be located in areas being used for military purposed by Hamas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 okay. so you're not much into following the geneva convention and international law. perhaps you should go live in the congo where they have the same view as you. First you gotta take care of your survival, then look after following laws. Israel struggles for its existence on a continual basis, and follows the laws as best it can given that fact. Sacrificing your own people just so hateful critics around the world don't perceive you as having broken some rule would be idiotic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 that's an example of you making shit up. Hamas - Human Shield Confession Hamas human shield in action. So...are those people on that roof combatants or civilians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted July 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 First you gotta take care of your survival, then look after following laws. Israel struggles for its existence on a continual basis, and follows the laws as best it can given that fact. Sacrificing your own people just so hateful critics around the world don't perceive you as having broken some rule would be idiotic. okay. i don't think there is any point in continuing this discussion as you and i stand on different sides when it comes to international law. you're okay with breaking international law and i'm not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) Here's a Hamas guy explaining how it is every Palestinian Arab's duty to protect the Jihad warriors from harm. Edited July 3, 2009 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) okay. i don't think there is any point in continuing this discussion as you and i stand on different sides when it comes to international law.you're okay with breaking international law and i'm not. The duty of a state to protect its people must be held paramount, above its obligations to follow international law. The life of a citizen is worth more than a piece of paper. Edited July 3, 2009 by Bonam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Here's your black Zionist cowboy hat. Mine's a little tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted July 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 The duty of a state to protect its people must be held paramount, above its obligations to follow international law. The life of a citizen is worth more than a piece of paper. just in case you missed it; 3 israeli civilians died and 300 palestinian children died during the gaza conflict. that's not protecting your citizens, that's unleashing your military and committing war crimes. you don't believe me, talk to the rights organizations. international law helped create israel. many of the laws came into effect after the treatment of the jews during the war. it's ironic seeing so many jews and israeli supporters who are okay with shitting on these laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 you don't believe me, talk to the rights organizations. ...who all got Hamas's guided tour with lunch included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 just in case you missed it; 3 israeli civilians died and 300 palestinian children died during the gaza conflict. that's not protecting your citizens, that's unleashing your military and committing war crimes. you don't believe me, talk to the rights organizations. Israeli casualties are low because Israel does a good job of defending itself. Gazan casualties are high because Hamas doesn't care much for defending civilians, as it benefits more from the media effect of said civilians dying. international law helped create israel. many of the laws came into effect after the treatment of the jews during the war. it's ironic seeing so many jews and israeli supporters who are okay with shitting on these laws. I'm not "shitting on those laws". Following humanitarian ideals is great when possible. But the first priority is the safety of your country's people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 So...are those people on that roof combatants or civilians? Re: Rules of war. Scene: Stalingrad, late 1942. High above the city, a lone Stuka flies. Rudi: Peter! Do you see what I see? Peter: Yah! Look at all those Russians on that roof!!! Rudi: Shall we?? Peter: Let's! Rudi puts the plane into a steep dive... (The predictable follows) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrustyKidd Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 that's an example of you making shit up.here is me calling you a liar, again: contrary to repeated allegations by Israeli officials of the use of “human shields”, Amnesty International found no evidence that Hamas or other Palestinian fighters directed the movement of civilians to shield military objectives from attacks. It found no evidence that Hamas or other armed groups forced residents to stay in or around buildings used by fighters, nor that fighters prevented residents from leaving buildings or areas which had been commandeered by militants. from the report. Following are excerpts from a speech delivered by Hamas MP Fathi Hammad, which aired on Al-Aqsa TV on February 29, 2008.Fathi Hammad: [The enemies of Allah] do not know that the Palestinian people has developed its [methods] of death and death-seeking. For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry, at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: "We desire death like you desire life." Nizar Rayan, a senior Hamas leader appears on Palestinian television (18 November 2006) to say that "the people of Palestine should gather as one to protect the Jihad warriors' houses" and that "we will die as warriors." Given that if you don't do what they say, and, the Palestinian leadership brags about how everybody loves death and wants to be a human shield and, the fact that you get your legs beaten to a pulp like the poor fellow on DOP's vid, how could any red blooded Palestinian refuse? Oh, wondering, since the Palestinians value their own and other's lives so little, why do you care Dub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted July 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Israeli casualties are low because Israel does a good job of defending itself. Gazan casualties are high because Hamas doesn't care much for defending civilians, as it benefits more from the media effect of said civilians dying. it's the military weapons they get from the US and UK, stupid. that's the difference. I'm not "shitting on those laws". Following humanitarian ideals is great when possible. But the first priority is the safety of your country's people. killing 300 children did nothing to improve israel's safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted July 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Given that if you don't do what they say, and, the Palestinian leadership brags about how everybody loves death and wants to be a human shield and, the fact that you get your legs beaten to a pulp like the poor fellow on DOP's vid, how could any red blooded Palestinian refuse? Oh, wondering, since the Palestinians value their own and other's lives so little, why do you care Dub? the questionable translation by MEMRI (who is a questionable organization) does not show this guy saying that they force civilians into human shields. i don't know about you, but to me it sounds like a unity speech of a group that lives under an aggressive military power who is saying that the people will guard their land with their bodies. all this talk about hamas allowing their people to die is such a bizarre way of debating what is happening. i mean, how can these militants stop tanks, planes and helicopters from demolishing the homes and killing civilians? the only way possible is to either lay down their guns, which we know will never happen, or to get into an open field with their guns and shoot at tanks, planes and helicopters... and we know that won't happen because they're not retards. anyway, amnesty is a reputable and experienced organization which does not shy about revealing the truth in these conflicts. you can sit there and hold hands with DoP and bonam and try to say otherwise, but any logical and rational person will agree with all these reputable human rights organizations and their reports. people notice how all of you refuse to talk about ALL the war crimes and the evidence behind that were committed by israel. you guys are apologists for a state that commits war crimes. put that on your resume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrustyKidd Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 the only way possible is to either lay down their guns, which we know will never happen Hey, why won't that happen Dub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) the questionable translation by MEMRI (who is a questionable organization) does not show this guy saying that they force civilians into human shields. i don't know about you, but to me it sounds like a unity speech of a group that lives under an aggressive military power who is saying that the people will guard their land with their bodies. You question MEMRI's translation but we're supposed to take you at your 'to me it sounds like' word? all this talk about hamas allowing their people to die is such a bizarre way of debating what is happening.i mean, how can these militants stop tanks, planes and helicopters from demolishing the homes and killing civilians? With their imported Iranian made weapons. the only way possible is to either lay down their guns, which we know will never happen, or to get into an open field with their guns and shoot at tanks, planes and helicopters... and we know that won't happen because they're not retards. Just cowards. They set up their defences in urban areas by choice. anyway, amnesty is a reputable and experienced organization which does not shy about revealing the truth in these conflicts. That got the Hamas tour after the battle. But, of course, Hamas showed AI where they set up their rockets...where their bunkers were and where the civilian's bunkers were. There were civilian bunkers constructed by Hamas...right? you can sit there and hold hands with DoP and bonam and try to say otherwise, but any logical and rational person will agree with all these reputable human rights organizations and their reports. Logical fallacy. Known as "special pleading" I believe. Folks like to view themselves as logical and rational no-matter-what the situation. Works in reverse, too. For example: 'only stupid idiots listen to people like dub'...nobody wants to be viewed a stupid idiot...right?? people notice how all of you refuse to talk about ALL the war crimes and the evidence behind that were committed by israel. Fellows like me notice how you ignore entire decades re: history. Fellows like me notice your support for a neo-Nazi terrorist group and their allies. Fellows like me notice your constant railing against the Jooooooooooooooooooooos. you guys are apologists for a state that commits war crimes. put that on your resume. Generals gathered in their masses, just like witches at black masses. Evil minds that plot destruction, sorcerers of death's construction. In the fields the bodies burning, as the war machine keeps turning. Death and hatred to mankind, poisoning their brainwashed minds. Edited July 4, 2009 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstone Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 that's fine.blame me for not accepting the report. you always have an excuse. Can you show us some peace oriented Palestinian groups or websites? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.9a49e1b2f22a6d34a345152c50044aa9.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.