Sir Bandelot Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) So -what about this you forgot to mention the evanglical Liberals.. http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1650066 If you expect me to defend the liberals somehow, you will wait a long time. But we were talking about how what we have today is not a conservative party that the majority of Canadians can relate to, but is rather the party of the religious right. From the same article you linked- "The old Reform Party, the forerunner to the Conservative Party of Canada, was in part built on the back of social conservatives in the West, most of whom were motivated by their Christian beliefs. But once the Reform Party tried to break out of the West, it found that the conservative religious element was holding the party back from making electoral gains. During the 2008 election, nary a peep was heard from the religious right -- a deliberate strategy. The social conservatives have been told to be careful. If you speak too loudly you're going to cause us to lose elections," said Link Byfield, a writer and former editor of Alberta Report." So in other words, they know this. Canadians would not like to hear the preachy horseshit of these Albertan evangelists. Its essential for them to hide their identity, at least until they can get a majority. Edited June 7, 2009 by Sir Bandelot Quote
scribblet Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 If you expect me to defend the liberals somehow, you will wait a long time.But we were talking about how what we have today is not a conservative party that the majority of Canadians can relate to, but is rather the party of the religious right. From the same article you linked- The CPC is hardly a party of the 'religious right' , and in fact is nothing but Liberal lite, these days. It has a broad tent which includes some religious people - just as the Liberals are now reaching out to include them in their party. The problem is, you won't see the MSM bashing the Liberals for including them in their party. Using the 'religious right' is nothing but a scare tactic, most people see through it now so it doesn't work any more. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
Smallc Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 They may not be the party of the religious right, but with all the fear of the media, they seem to be the party of paranoia. Quote
Argus Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 "There is a hole in Canadian politics that todays puritanical and naive "conservatives" can't fill. The real conservatives have gone away. The average Canadian is not a bible thumping, woman hating, racist, war lover (from a distance!), U.S. ass-licker that hates the environment. They simply cannot relate to the CPC."http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....st&p=428038 Not sure why you wanted to repeat that in the same thread. I realize it was something of a magnificent accomplishment for you to get so many stupidly inane comments together in one small paragraph, but it's not even close to a record here. Harper is an evangelist. His father was a pastor.Preston Manning... aka "The Rev." Stockwell Day... say no more None of which contradicts what I wrote above. Regardless of the religious beliefs of the leaders the parties itself have not been particularly religiously inspired or influenced. The current Conservatives appear to be as atheistic in their public persona as any of the other parties. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 They may not be the party of the religious right, but with all the fear of the media, they seem to be the party of paranoia. Your party was no better last time around. Chretien despised the media and would usually have nothing to do with them. You could count on your fingers the number of press conferences (outside elections) he ungraciously agreed to hold during his entire thirteen years in office. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Smallc Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 Chretien despised the media and would usually have nothing to do with them. You could count on your fingers the number of press conferences (outside elections) he ungraciously agreed to hold during his entire thirteen years in office. But, he didn't think there was a giant conspiracy against his ideology. Quote
wyly Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 Oh really?The US is going through this transformation under Obama right now, and by the next election he's gonna make damn sure that government teet suckers are up over the 50% barrier to ensure he's a two (maybe three?) termer. well so much for your politcal wisdom....presidents are allowed by law to do only two terms... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
benny Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 well so much for your politcal wisdom....presidents are allowed by law to do only two terms... Hugo Chavez is an outrageous leftist president - with his infinite number of terms - but certainly not boring. Quote
wyly Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 Using the 'religious right' is nothing but a scare tactic, most people see through it now so it doesn't work any more. we're only a conservative majority away from seeing the religious nuts come out of the closet... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 Hugo Chavez is an outrageous leftist president - with his infinite number of terms - but certainly not boring. Canadians obviously prefer the infinite term for PM... Chavez is outspoken but hardly outrageous... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Sir Bandelot Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 Insults mean nothing, other than demonstrating that you have a problem. And flat denials without citing any proof, doesn't count for much in a debate. At least provide a link to some evidence for your statements, or better yet a quote from Stephen Harper where he says that he does not believe in mixing his personal religious ideology with his political work. In light of the many accusations and SOME real evidence that they (the CPC) try to do this. Are we just intent on filling this space with something, anything when we have nothing useful to say? No wonder the OP thinks that the discussion of politics here is boring. For me it's not a problem that they go to church, or that they believe in something. If thats the case, why hide it? Just admit that this is what you are, to hell with political correctness. Convince the people with arguments, face the consequences of your beliefs. Unless of course someone truly is a nutcase that would shock the conscience of the public, which I believe Stockwell Day is on the verge of being. Besides their religious grass roots there are still a number of things that this party seems to believe in that I and many other conservative Canadians simply do not. I listed those in my mini rant, which I repeated after Shady said similar things about the US Republican party. I truly believe that this CPC party is the Canadian GOP-light. I base that on these observations alone- their lack of interest in environmentalism, their desire for mandatory minimum sentencing, dislike of gun registrations and a negative view towards equalty and womens rights, opposition to social economic policies, support of lassiez faire capitalism. All doomed to failure... and that is what they are really hiding. I can back those up with links if necessary, but I shouldn't have to. By now it is quite self-evident Quote
benny Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 Canadians obviously prefer the infinite term for PM...Chavez is outspoken but hardly outrageous... He is not just speaking, he is dealing armaments too. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 .....I truly believe that this CPC party is the Canadian GOP-light. I base that on these observations alone- their lack of interest in environmentalism, their desire for mandatory minimum sentencing, dislike of gun registrations and a negative view towards equalty and womens rights, opposition to social economic policies, support of lassiez faire capitalism. All doomed to failure... and that is what they are really hiding. I can back those up with links if necessary, but I shouldn't have to..... The only difficulty in your analysis and associations is that many of the same policies were/are embraced by the "other" major American political party, if that be the only way you can define such things. Careful inspection reveals that if the CPC must be a shadow of another party, it is not altogether clear which one it should be. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Oleg Bach Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 He is not just speaking, he is dealing armaments too. Booze - dope - arms..what all dreams of luxury are built on....pitiful - How do these chumps get into power...oh yah - I remember - the practice cruelty and no one dare stand in the way of an ambitious and cruel man... Quote
scribblet Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 we're only a conservative majority away from seeing the religious nuts come out of the closet... Define 'religious nut' everyone has a right to an opinion and a voice in a democracy, you obviously seek to limit those rights, to people who might fit your definitions. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
wyly Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 He is not just speaking, he is dealing armaments too. the USA is the worlds biggest armament dealer...so... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 Define 'religious nut' everyone has a right to an opinion and a voice in a democracy, you obviously seek to limit those rights, to people who might fit your definitions. when someone wants to impose their religious beliefs and social values on me that is "nuts"... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 Booze - dope - arms..what all dreams of luxury are built on....pitiful - How do these chumps get into power...oh yah - I remember - the practice cruelty and no one dare stand in the way of an ambitious and cruel man... actually he was elected fairly by the poor who had enough of rightwing coruption.. Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Argus Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 But, he didn't think there was a giant conspiracy against his ideology. Nor does Harper. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 Insults mean nothing, other than demonstrating that you have a problem. And flat denials without citing any proof, doesn't count for much in a debate. At least provide a link to some evidence for your statements, or better yet a quote from Stephen Harper where he says that he does not believe in mixing his personal religious ideology with his political work I'm not going to try to prove a negative. It's your job to show me how religion is behind policies and changes his government has put in place. You have not only failed to do that you have not even made the attempt. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
benny Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) the USA is the worlds biggest armament dealer...so... So to resume the Cold War, Chavez has to think, outrageously, that he can finish it with a communist victory this time. Edited June 7, 2009 by benny Quote
Sir Bandelot Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 I'm not going to try to prove a negative. It's your job to show me how religion is behind policies and changes his government has put in place. You have not only failed to do that you have not even made the attempt. You have miss the point entirely. I don't deny that you're correct in one sense... I have not even made the attempt. The reason is that I don't care. I don't want to try to prove it. Therefore, I have not failed. As I said before, it does not matter to me whether they are guided by certain beliefs or not. Voting statistics do show that religious conservatives generally support these issues. I say "religious", not only christian... it can be seen in other groups. We can argue on and on about why that is, but it doesn't matter to me why. My criticism of the CPC party is on those points that I listed. My statement that there is no rational alternative for true conservatives in this country, I mean the political, economic, environmental conservative, still stands. What we have today is a right-wing party. That is not necessarily synonymous with conservatism. Quote
benny Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 My statement that there is no rational alternative for true conservatives in this country, I mean the political, economic, environmental conservative, still stands. What we have today is a right-wing party. That is not necessarily synonymous with conservatism. A true conservative is a true liberal in the sense that both will be politically active only to empty the place of prime minister and to prevent this position to be ever filled again. In other words, both true conservatives and liberals strongly agree through their disagreements that the Emperor should for ever go naked. Quote
wyly Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 So to resume the Cold War, Chavez has to think, outrageously, that he can finish it with a communist victory this time. let us know when this war is starting....and he's hardly a communist.... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
benny Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) let us know when this war is starting....and he's hardly a communist.... Don't close your eyes! Edited June 7, 2009 by benny Quote
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