Liberal Minority Government

[Smallc]

The GST cuts are better for during the recession. If they happened 10 months before that I really don't think it matters that much. There's no reason they have to be permanent either.

They were intended to be permanenet and you know that. They also had nothing to do with recession. The were criticized as bad policy from the beginning.

Dion and the Liberals were the ones championing the fact that we were heading for recession. With that knowledge, they knew revenues would be way down. Knowing that, they knew there would be deficits and yet they still promised to increase spending and they continue to do so today.

He promised to increase spending on infrastructure...and what have we done? The tories said he had no plan...and then they stole his plan...meetings with the provinces...check....infrastructure money...check.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

You're kidding, right? Alberta is suffering as bad as Ontario during this recession. Hundreds of millions of dollars of projects have already been announced. Alberta isn't a vtictim here, so don't start thinking that it is.

Back the truck up! Did I say Alberta was a victim, or did I say that Ontario and Quebec were the targets for stimulus? What I was trying to say was that the money from all over the country is being plowed into an effort to do something about the economic problems of Ontario and Quebec. Even so the money isn't going to them! Its going into corporate hands, and the home nation of those corporations are noty in this nation. So in reality we are not even doing something for Ontario and Quebec but instead shipping the money to the good old USA to solve some corporate problem in their corner of the world. The package sucks!

You just have to know that keeping a production share of 12 to 19 %, depending on what numbers you are listening to will still result in the loss of several thousand direct jobs and perhaps as much as another ten thousand indirect jobs in Ontario alone, The shrinking tax base hasn't even been properly addressed! That share of production will be a hotly disputed thing very soon. Once all the plant closures are over and the sell offs of all the divisions have been finalized and GM is down to say Caddy and Chev, that number of even 19% will look a lot like 5%, but you probably already know that right?

[Smallc]

Back the truck up! Did I say Alberta was a victim, or did I say that Ontario and Quebec were the targets for stimulus? What I was trying to say was that the money from all over the country is being plowed into an effort to do something about the economic problems of Ontario and Quebec. Even so the money isn't going to them! Its going into corporate hands, and the home nation of those corporations are noty in this nation.

Are we talking about the Stimulis or the auto bailout? Those are two very different things. The stimulis money is going to projects across the country, and they are being announced every day.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Are we talking about the Stimulis or the auto bailout? Those are two very different things. The stimulis money is going to projects across the country, and they are being announced every day.

The whole shebang, its all the same thing anyway, tax dollars being spent. Of the 40 Billion on the "Stimulus" package, only 12 billion is on infrastructure the rest is tax cuts for individuals and business along with some targeted loans and worker training programs. Then there is the dollars going into the auto bailout package. There is only one tax payer! All Canadians will be paying for these things yet not all will receive any benefit at all. The auto bailout is almost exclusively and Ontario package is it not? The whole nation is to share 12 billion in economic stimulus and Ontario gets another 12 billion just for a bailout that puts not oner dime into the province and just gets shipped right across the border to the parent company's trustee in bankruptcy....

[Smallc]

The are auto parts jobs in Ontario, Quebec, and Alberta according to the reports from when we bailed them out the first time.

[Alta4ever]

Income tax cuts in the same amount would have introduced money into the economy more efficiently, beucase it would have given it mostly to the middle class allowing them to have more buying power.

Face it, we left ourselves with no room....we've even been told as much by the PBO and private economists.

We have already seen tax cuts that have reduced our tax rates to the lowest they have been since 1955.

[Smallc]

We have already seen tax cuts that have reduced our tax rates to the lowest they have been since 1955.

Thats right....fro mthe same government that brought us the largest deficit (in total dollars) since....ever.

[Moonbox]

They were intended to be permanenet and you know that. They also had nothing to do with recession. The were criticized as bad policy from the beginning.

A theoretically bad policy that ends up working out is nothing to cry about in my books. You're right that it was intended to be permanent, but that was before the economy pooped out. Having said that, the alternative was income tax reductions, which would have been equally bad for budget but would have helped us less in recession. However misguided the tax gst cut was, it worked out better than the Liberal solution.

He promised to increase spending on infrastructure...and what have we done? The tories said he had no plan...and then they stole his plan...meetings with the provinces...check....infrastructure money...check.

A plan to meet with the provinces to discuss a plan that they would come up with is not actually a plan. The infrastructure money is being spent, certainly, but that just gets back to the original point. Why are the Liberals criticizing Harper for a deficit that they would have incurred with their own policies? The best part, however, is they were also going to introduce an income redistribution tax (don't say the Green Shift wasn't) along with the infrastructure spending DURING a recession.

To be honest, SmallC, I really think the Liberals and Conservatives measure up pretty equally as far as fiscal policy right now. Both advocated tax cuts, both advocated increased spending and both plunged us into deficit. Currently, I like the CPC flavour of incompetence better than the Liberal one, and I'm basing that pretty much solely on what I don't like about ideas like the Green Shift and EI reforms. Tomayto Tomahto for fiscal responsibility, but as far as misguided social engineering the Liberals look worse in my books.

[Smallc]

it worked out better than the Liberal solution.

We don't actually know that since we never used the Liberal's (and every economist in canada) solution.

A plan to meet with the provinces to discuss a plan that they would come up with is not actually a plan.

Stephen Harper critized Dion for even suggesting the idea...and then he did it. He stole much of Dion's plan

Both advocated tax cuts, both advocated increased spending and both plunged us into deficit. Currently, I like the CPC flavour of incompetence better than the Liberal one, and I'm basing that pretty much solely on what I don't like about ideas like the Green Shift and EI reforms.

To be technical, only the CPC plunged us into deficit. I'm not worried about the Green Shift either. It's gone and it won't be coming back. The temporary EI reform also doesn't worry me. That's just me though.

Edited June 3, 2009 by Smallc

[ToadBrother]

They were intended to be permanenet and you know that. They also had nothing to do with recession. The were criticized as bad policy from the beginning.

They were criticized as bad policy because a lot of economists actually prefer consumption taxes over income taxes.

He promised to increase spending on infrastructure...and what have we done? The tories said he had no plan...and then they stole his plan...meetings with the provinces...check....infrastructure money...check.

Let's face it. Ignatieff is calling a lot of the shots in Ottawa. Harper can put up all the moronic attack ads he wants, but at the end of the day, and particularly after last December, Harper is basically a Liberal lapdog, hoping to find some way of chewing off his leash.

[Alta4ever]

Thats right....fro mthe same government that brought us the largest deficit (in total dollars) since....ever.

Which is actually less then both the deficits trudeau and mulrooney as a total of GDP.

[Smallc]

Which is actually less then both the deficits trudeau and mulrooney as a total of GDP.

Thats right, it is, but this government will always wear the deficit.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

A Liberal government will only say that it was saddled with problems from the previous administration and tell the public it will take time to correct the problems they inherited. They will do nothing right according to the Conservatives and the NDP will say they are ignoring the needs of the people. The same game will be played with players in different positions but the whining will be the same only spun in a different direction.

I can only hope that the public will soon wake up and demand that representatives start pushing the government to act. The action required is to research and develop a functional means of utilizing the governments revenue streams in a meaningful way to benefit the CITIZENS of Canada. They need to understand their spending and plan for expenditures instead utilizing their political knee jerk reactions to everything under the sun. Is it not yet time to become a little more proactive in the pursuit of governance.

[KingIggy]

What the rampaging rightwingers intentionally ignore is the Harper/Bush policy pattern.

The only reason why those to the left of Harper/Bush raise taxes is to pay for the on the ground, applied policies.

The Libertarians don't have to raise any taxes, becaue their policies are minimalist. But the Neo-Conservatives budget is indeed a rightwing spending orgy, so to be fiscally balanced, they HAVE to raise taxes on those who can afford it (the rich).

Edited June 4, 2009 by KingIggy

[Bryan]

What the rampaging rightwingers intentionally ignore is the Harper/Bush policy pattern.

Harper is to the left of most Democrats. Comparing him to Bush is asinine.

[KingIggy]

Harper is more aligned with Bush. He carelessly cuts taxes (like the Republicans), ramps up the drug war (like the Republicans), thinks endless Israeli landgrabs are cool (like the Republicans), thinks the NDP is evil (like the Republicans).

Harper=Bush. To disagree is asinine and insane.

[geoffrey]

Iggy is way closer to Bush in ideology than Harper could dream to be. How do you sleep at night? How have you become so good at lying to yourself KingIggy?

Your man supported fervently the invasion of Iraq, the torture of prisoners and calls Ukrainans sub-human terms. Iggy is a hardcore Bush-type. Big war, big government. Let's roll. That's what he's all about. He even calls himself an American.

Your Harper/Bush tie ups simply don't hold water. Iggy is your man to compare to Bush. They could be best of friends. They stand for the same things.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Harper=Bush. To disagree is asinine and insane.

OK...but last time this strategy only returned PM Harper to office.

[KingIggy]

OK...but last time this strategy only returned PM Harper to office.

Wrong, it prevented his MAJORITY GOV'T GOAL.

[KingIggy]

Iggy is way closer to Bush in ideology than Harper could dream to be. How do you sleep at night? How have you become so good at lying to yourself KingIggy?

Your man supported fervently the invasion of Iraq, the torture of prisoners and calls Ukrainans sub-human terms. Iggy is a hardcore Bush-type. Big war, big government. Let's roll. That's what he's all about. He even calls himself an American.

Your Harper/Bush tie ups simply don't hold water. Iggy is your man to compare to Bush. They could be best of friends. They stand for the same things.

If you can't see that Iggy is center / center-right, then you are honestly mistaken and should simply vote NDP and make it a better country.

When the heck has the NDP formed fedearl gov't ???? NEVER !!!!!!!!! So get to work, or they'll NEVER win.

[capricorn]

Oh, could it be that KingIggy is really a NDP supporter in Liberal clothing? It has been known to happen.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Yeah and Red Ed was once a the leader of the Progressive Conservative Party.........

[Topaz]

As I said once and I say it again, its really hard to know what Harper is politically since he been a member of the Libs, PC's, Reform, Alliance and now Conservatives which means what? If anyone is a flip-flopper is Harper and he says one thing one and does another! No wonder this country is such a mess and to think these guys who has given our children and grchildren a debt load, will walk away with their golden pensions after their time is done. We should save taxpayers money and vote them all out so they can't get those pensions, the six years isn't up yet!

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The leaders of these partisan factions have become the targets of much abuse. But it is not them we should worry about, its the issues............