Borg Posted May 28, 2009 Report Posted May 28, 2009 Daniel Pearl didn't get a board hearing. You might add several other names to that list - mandatory viewing and briefings required before serving in some positions - the Italian fellow impressed me - I do not know if I could have been that strong. All very ugly. They thrive on our perceived (to them real) weakness. Borg Quote
dub Posted May 29, 2009 Author Report Posted May 29, 2009 Daniel Pearl didn't get a board hearing. so you are saying it's okay to be as despicable as those who killed pearl? that it's okay to break the law because those guys did it? okay then. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted May 29, 2009 Report Posted May 29, 2009 so you are saying it's okay to be as despicable as those who killed pearl? that it's okay to break the law because those guys did it?okay then. Those that killed Pearl - are not human beings - nor are they truely alive in any sense - these men were and are the walking dead - Do you think that if Pearl could rise from the grave - that he would condone that others do what was done to him? Certainly not - No human being in his right mind condones this type of sadism - or any other type of cruelty--- I swear that those that demand that we torture - are dysfuctional sexually and spiritually - how could anyone that does such things possibly be healthy? How can anyone that stands and cheers the torture on be a healthy happy human being? We can not be dragged down as a society by these preverts! I put touture - capital punishment - sexual deviancey - and abortion done in spite - all in the same catagory. Quote
dub Posted May 29, 2009 Author Report Posted May 29, 2009 No human being in his right mind condones this type of sadism - or any other type of cruelty--- I swear that those that demand that we torture - are dysfuctional sexually and spiritually - how could anyone that does such things possibly be healthy? How can anyone that stands and cheers the torture on be a healthy happy human being? We can not be dragged down as a society by these preverts! I put touture - capital punishment - sexual deviancey - and abortion done in spite - all in the same catagory. i believe that those who agree with torture are either what you have described or they're mindless sheep who have submitted to fear imposed on them by the sheepherders. fear that trumps compassion and rationality. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted May 29, 2009 Report Posted May 29, 2009 i believe that those who agree with torture are either what you have described or they're mindless sheep who have submitted to fear imposed on them by the sheepherders. fear that trumps compassion and rationality. These are the same people that stood in the school yard stimulating a fight - and screamed to the bully " kill em - kill em - smash him in the face'''' like mad dogs - I knew a very nasty lady - back in public school - and the local hooligans were tormenting my bother - they ganged up on him - and I could hear this lady say to her horrible son - "stick em with your knife Sonny" ----- I guess this old hag would condone torture...after all - her husband tortured and raped her children - The world does have these types and they should not be allowed to prevail - NO matter how sophisticated their presentation appears to be. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 so you are saying it's okay to be as despicable as those who killed pearl? that it's okay to break the law because those guys did it?okay then. Okay for you to attack Israel's policies, but not Pearl's killers. Okay then..... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 Okay for you to attack Israel's policies, but not Pearl's killers. Okay then..... Well played. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Borg Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 Okay for you to attack Israel's policies, but not Pearl's killers. Okay then..... Because one is a Jew and the other not Agree on the well played Bring on the torture - at the least it removes some terrorists from circulation - all is fair in this war Borg Quote
CANADIEN Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 Gee, hardly torture as he could get up and end it anytime he wished. Same as the three guys that got water boarded. All they had to do was to cooperate. Cooperate and you will not be submitted to a form of physical handling that; - causes your senses to make you believe you are drowning - can cause extreme pain - can cause lung damage - can cause brain damage It IS torture, no matter how you put it. Quote
KrustyKidd Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 Cooperate and you will not be submitted to a form of physical handling that;- causes your senses to make you believe you are drowning - can cause extreme pain - can cause lung damage - can cause brain damage It IS torture, no matter how you put it. By virtue of Presidential directive they were offered the choice of which they preffered - talking or waterboarding. They volunteered for waterboarding, same as the conservative talk show host. Quote We're Paratroopers Lieutenant. We're supposed to be surrounded - CPT Richard Winters
CANADIEN Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 By virtue of Presidential directive they were offered the choice of which they preffered - talking or waterboarding. They volunteered for waterboarding, same as the conservative talk show host. The talk show host volunteered. As for your claim that a prisoner, who is told "talk or else" and says no has actually volunteered for torture. I have read some fairly stupid stuff on this site. This is on the top 3. Quote
KrustyKidd Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 The talk show host volunteered. Oh, and the Al Qaeda guys really wanted to be running a conveinience store in Islamabadd rather than be swept up in anti Western battles? As for your claim that a prisoner, who is told "talk or else" and says no has actually volunteered for torture. I have read some fairly stupid stuff on this site. This is on the top 3. Pay your mortgage or lose your house. If you don't pay, you volunteered to lose it as the opportunity to not lose it was there. When they have two choices and they choose enhanced interrogation over the other possibility then they volunteer. Other options available to them were to talk and show they were dealing in truth as information could be cooberated with others and verified and thus, eliminate the discomfort our poor conservative talk show host had to go through. Quote We're Paratroopers Lieutenant. We're supposed to be surrounded - CPT Richard Winters
jbg Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 bush_cheney continues to tell us it's not torture. he says it's nothing more than getting your head flushed just like he used to in school. but what happens when someone who believes the same thing goes and actually experiences waterboarding?this happens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE6fsn_c644 And it's not torture when 17 year olds are programmed to blow themselves up on buses, or a baby carriage complete with baby is presented for a Pakistani presidential candidate to kiss, and the baby blows up, taking 50+ in the crowd? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 Okay for you to attack Israel's policies, but not Pearl's killers. Okay then..... Spot on!!! Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
CANADIEN Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 Pay your mortgage or lose your house. If you don't pay, you volunteered to lose it as the opportunity to not lose it was there. A woman is getting rape. she told to shut up, or she will die. She screams, she's killed, she volunteered to die. A bank clerk is told to give the money or being shot at. He refuses, he ends in the hospital for three weeks. He volunteered for it. John McCain was beaten when he first refused to "confess" to being a war criminal. He volunteered for the beatings. How many other examples of how inredibly stupid your statement was are needed? Quote
KrustyKidd Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 A woman is getting rape. she told to shut up, or she will die. She screams, she's killed, she volunteered to die.A bank clerk is told to give the money or being shot at. He refuses, he ends in the hospital for three weeks. He volunteered for it. John McCain was beaten when he first refused to "confess" to being a war criminal. He volunteered for the beatings. How many other examples of how inredibly stupid your statement was are needed? Actually one example of something legal such as enhanced interrogation would be a start rather than these illegal acts you speak of. Quote We're Paratroopers Lieutenant. We're supposed to be surrounded - CPT Richard Winters
CANADIEN Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 Actually one example of something legal such as enhanced interrogation would be a start rather than these illegal acts you speak of. The issue is not the "legality" or lack thereof of the actions, but the stupidity of your statement. dig enough, and you'll find that the Vietnamese probably had a law making torture of war prisioners legal. The political opponents to the nazi regime who were sent to Dachau were sent there under German law, and their treatment was "legal". They must have volunteered for it by refusing to obey the regime. Same with Stalin's, Mao's, Pol Pot's victims, among others. All volunteered for it by not doing, not saying or not being what they were told. If you had any shred of common sense, you'd back down before sugmitting yourself to more ridicule. You won't. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 The issue is not the "legality" or lack thereof of the actions, but the stupidity of your statement.dig enough, and you'll find that the Vietnamese probably had a law making torture of war prisioners legal.... The USA didn't have any such law, but still supported the "torture" of captives during interrogations (e.g Côn Sơn Island ) in 'Nam. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
KrustyKidd Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 The issue is not the "legality" or lack thereof of the actions, but the stupidity of your statement.dig enough, and you'll find that the Vietnamese probably had a law making torture of war prisioners legal. The political opponents to the nazi regime who were sent to Dachau were sent there under German law, and their treatment was "legal". They must have volunteered for it by refusing to obey the regime. Same with Stalin's, Mao's, Pol Pot's victims, among others. All volunteered for it by not doing, not saying or not being what they were told. If you had any shred of common sense, you'd back down before sugmitting yourself to more ridicule. You won't. The examples you gave are all illegal and yes, acts such as those above probably were legal in Viet Nam and Nazi Germany but then again, we're not talking about Nazi Germany here are we? Quote We're Paratroopers Lieutenant. We're supposed to be surrounded - CPT Richard Winters
CANADIEN Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 The examples you gave are all illegal and yes, acts such as those above probably were legal in Viet Nam and Nazi Germany but then again, we're not talking about Nazi Germany here are we? The issue, the sole issue, is the stupidity of your statement. That you say "oh, but if Bush said it was legal, then people who are subjected to it necessarily volunteer for it" makes it even more stupid. :lol: :lol: Quote
KrustyKidd Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 The issue, the sole issue, is the stupidity of your statement. That you say "oh, but if Bush said it was legal, then people who are subjected to it necessarily volunteer for it" makes it even more stupid. :lol: :lol: The sole issue is that it was the policy of the US at that time and was endorsed by Congress and the Senate in that certain types of prisoners were subject to enhanced interrogation if they were found to be uncooperative using traditional means. The prisoners (three of them) were afforded opportunity to avoid this action and decided not to take advantage of this and, were subsequently waterboarded. Kalid Sheikh Mohammed could have avoided being waterboarded if he simply came out and said he knew of the plot to take out the Brooklyn Bridge from the start and, followed it up with admission and details of bombing the Library Tower in LA. Instead, he decided, not the CIA but he decided, that he did not wish to cooperate. Hence, he volunteered to ensure he became a candidate for a legal process. Now, what is very silly is how you equate this legal proceedure administered by a government and controlled by SOPs and overseen by doctors and trained administrators with the subject being able to, at a moments notice, to have it cease by becoming cooperative, to a woman being raped. Quote We're Paratroopers Lieutenant. We're supposed to be surrounded - CPT Richard Winters
dub Posted May 30, 2009 Author Report Posted May 30, 2009 Okay for you to attack Israel's policies, but not Pearl's killers. Okay then..... who said i haven't before? i even re-confirmed how i feel about pearl's killing in that post. just because a person criticizes israel, it doesn't mean that they condone acts like pearl's killing. not sure why you had to take a page out of DoP's immature style of responses. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 If you have to torture one person to save a thousand lives - then the thousand lives are not worth saving - any society that condones torture - is a backward and decayed organism...much like human rights - if the rights of ONE individual are trampled upon - then the rights of all are lost. Quote
CANADIEN Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 (edited) The sole issue is that it was the policy of the US at that time and was endorsed by Congress and the Senate in that certain types of prisoners were subject to enhanced interrogation if they were found to be uncooperative using traditional means. The prisoners (three of them) were afforded opportunity to avoid this action and decided not to take advantage of this and, were subsequently waterboarded. Kalid Sheikh Mohammed could have avoided being waterboarded if he simply came out and said he knew of the plot to take out the Brooklyn Bridge from the start and, followed it up with admission and details of bombing the Library Tower in LA. Instead, he decided, not the CIA but he decided, that he did not wish to cooperate. Hence, he volunteered to ensure he became a candidate for a legal process. Only an imbecile would call that "volunteering'. End of story. Edited May 30, 2009 by CANADIEN Quote
Sir Bandelot Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 who said i haven't before? i even re-confirmed how i feel about pearl's killing in that post.just because a person criticizes israel, it doesn't mean that they condone acts like pearl's killing. Anyone with a thinking brain could see that and knew that already. " not sure why you had to take a page out of DoP's immature style of responses." Because they are bi-polar thinkers. They think that there is a clear and simple division between things, and everything falls into those categories. Their logic is simple- "if your against Israel, you must support the muslim extremists" This is a Bushism, in other words abject stupidity. That and a little goading just to bug you- hence the need for "high fives". Quote
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