Fraser Institute Publishes new study on Official Languages

[Machjo]

And rightly so!

Indonesians aren't quite as stupid as liberal westerners, who foolishly flout the immutable laws of human affairs and insanely deny the ironclad fact: DIVERSITY IS WEAKNESS.

I disagree. I'd say diversity minus unity is weakness. You seem to see the two as exclusive. If anything, they depend on one another. In a homogeneous society, people will go out of their way to seek out diversity. In a society lacking unity, people will seek out unity. One cannot exist without the other. I will agree however that Canada has gone out to seek diversity minus unity. As a result, people have gone out to seek unity, examples being a united Quebec identity through the Bloc Quebecois, etc. If we fail to promote a common national identity for all, then people will seek out unity elsewhere, even if it's ethnic unity. I should point out too that language plays a powerful role in society too. For example, it would be awfully difficult for a unilingual Quebecer to feel as one with his Albertan homologue, so it's natural that he'd seek unity elsewhere, and language is a very powerful source of common identity since it's the glue that keeps a society together and that shuts other out more than any other, on a very practical level.

[Machjo]

I disagree....I have frequented Canadian forums since 2002 and there are plenty of folks more than willing to have a go at "Bill 101" and related bitching, from hiring practices to public accommodation.

And that's on the English language sites. Visit some French-language ones.

[Oleg Bach]

I remember Dan Akyroid - and his little club of motor cycle enthuseists ..they drank hard liquior, constantly smoked dope and had a herald - "strength though diversity" - they were the weakest bunch of leecherous weasils I have ever seen - once you create diversity - you create a mess --- look at the Tamils - now that the Tigers have been wiped off the Island of Shrilanka - they are going to wage a fued here - already my local baker has a bullet hole in his front window - and they set fire to a Buddist temple last night - forget the protest that disrupts our roads and institutions - now the fun starts - Tamil Mafia war on OUR turf - THANKS FOR THE FINKING MULTI-CULTURAL DIVERSITY - now we have their garbage and insanity in Toronto - what were our politicals thinking?

[bush_cheney2004]

And that's on the English language sites. Visit some French-language ones.

The English language sites don't allow French.

[Oleg Bach]

The English language sites don't allow French.

French language sites don't allow English...and never the twain should meet...what is this anyway - they want us to be everything to everybody all the time and all at once - I just glad I can utter a sound and someone can translate it into some sort of communication.

[bush_cheney2004]

French language sites don't allow English...and never the twain should meet...what is this anyway - they want us to be everything to everybody all the time and all at once - I just glad I can utter a sound and someone can translate it into some sort of communication.

Sheesh...don't they know about condoms?

[Oleg Bach]

Sheesh...don't they know about condoms?

I missed that BC - what's this condom comment ? I don't get the joke - what do you do? Do you just write a nonsense line then add the laughing little ball face....then I look at the line and the picture of the little guy laughing and think - This must be funny - do you screw me up on purpose - give me the damn joke and I want it now - It had better really be funny - now work for a living damn it!

[Leafless]

What culture of entitlement?

Where government intervention by way of corrupt social engineering does what Francophones are unable or fail to achieve by themselves due to the nature of their self segragated society.

[Machjo]

Where government intervention by way of corrupt social engineering does what Francophones are unable or fail to achieve by themselves due to the nature of their self segragated society.

Too vague to comment on. Any specific examples?

[Oleg Bach]

Where government intervention by way of corrupt social engineering does what Francophones are unable or fail to achieve by themselves due to the nature of their self segragated society.

Like that "corrupt social engineering" - Never thought of it that way - that most if not all social engineering can only be facilitated though corruption - It is always implimented though fraud and deception...to socially engineer the public you have to fool them - lie to them - misrepresent to them - hense it's corrupt....I find it insulting when you question something that is illogical...and some engineer double speaks back to you with a non-answer - and when you demand a real answer they resort to political correctness - that is never correct.

[Machjo]

Can anyone give a clear definition of 'social engineering'? Honestly, the phrase means little to m; it's just a very vaue concept in my mind. I could probably comment more on it if I had a clearer understanding of what one means when he uses that phrase.

[Machjo]

OK, here are the origins of the term, or so it seems:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_engineer

It would seem that in its original sense it has neither a positive nor negative connotation. It's simply viewed as an applied social science that can be directed towards good or evil alike, or simply aiming at efficiency in the plant. Then we have more modern definitions. In the political sence, we come up with this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_engine...itical_science)

Ah, as I thought. I've just read this last article, and it confirms why I was so confused about the term. It clarifies that nearly all government policy is by definition social engineering as it aims at modifying social behaviours, for good or bad. So in spite of its negative connotations in some circles, in its own right it's, like its original definition, an amoral term for a political application that can be used for either good or ill.

And then we have the sociological sense of the term:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociological_practice

And then we have this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_engineering_(security)

I'm assuming you meant it in the political sense, yet seeing that it's not a dirty word in its own right, that's probably why it says nothing to me when you use it in a negative sense minus any context. Without a specific example or instance, the negative connotation can only be lost on me.

[Smallc]

I was watching CPAC during the auto bail-out hearings, and one MP disrupted the hearing by insisting that everything be discussed and submitted in both official languages.

I'm pretty sure that it's a requirement in parliament.

[CANADIEN]

Typical French Canadian reply.

Actually, the capacity to distinguish between fact and fiction is not exclusive to French-Canadians.

[CANADIEN]

Fact is all provinces in Canada always did have the right to implement their own official language.

It is not a Qwe-bec inovation.

Qwe-bec it seems are smarter than the other provinces in Canada to implement their own official language to protect their culture.

Here we have the "noble defender of the English language" saying that Quebec's langyage laws are smart, while the "hater of everything English" objects to the violation of the rights of English-speaking Quebecers.

[CANADIEN]

The French language by way of language policies was forced on Ottawa.

There have never been any French-speaker in Ottawa. Right.

[CANADIEN]

And rightly so!

Indonesians aren't quite as stupid as liberal westerners, who foolishly flout the immutable laws of human affairs and insanely deny the ironclad fact: DIVERSITY IS WEAKNESS

The only ironclad fact is that your argument becomes weaker and weaker by the posting.

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm pretty sure that it's a requirement in parliament.

I'm sure that it is....hence the added costs in Fraser Inst. findings. I wonder if Ford Canada has to supply owner's manuals in both languages?

[Smallc]

I'm sure that it is....hence the added costs in Fraser Inst. findings. I wonder if Ford Canada has to supply owner's manuals in both languages?

They have to supply them in whichever of the two languages you request...they also have to do this for labels on the car.

[Smallc]

I'm sure that it is....hence the added costs in Fraser Inst. findings.

And really who cares? Canada has two official languages and that's that. End of story.

[bush_cheney2004]

And really who cares? Canada has two official languages and that's that. End of story.

I think Ford, GM, Chrylser, Nissan, Toyota, and Honda care. Owners manuals cost money in any language!

[Oleg Bach]

I think Ford, GM, Chrylser, Nissan, Toyota, and Honda care. Owners manuals cost money in any language!

It would take an old Pole nerd like you to come up with this ----"owners manuals" - you got a train set in the basement old man?

[bush_cheney2004]

It would take an old Pole nerd like you to come up with this ----"owners manuals" - you got a train set in the basement old man?

Yep...Lionel.."O" gauge....choo.....choo, or should I say..."choo de choo".

What other crazy things happen because of the double language curse?

[Smallc]

I think Ford, GM, Chrylser, Nissan, Toyota, and Honda care. Owners manuals cost money in any language!

So, French speaking people in Quebec, New Brunswick, Ontario, Manitoba, etc., should have to read make due with the English Manual? I think not.

[Smallc]

What other crazy things happen because of the double language curse?

Yes, the double language curse.... I mean, if the US doesn't do it, it must be bad.