Machjo Posted May 17, 2009 Author Report Posted May 17, 2009 Of course reality is that diversity is a source of tension and DISUNITY within people... Far from what you describe, UNITY is impossible with too much diversity. And Indonesia is a Islamic autocratic hellhole that has been responsible for countless atrocities and even GENOCIDE over issues of diversity... (religious and cultural). Indonesia is living proof that diversity is a weakness, not any sort of strength.. As for Indonesia, I'm speaking of its language poicies only, not anything else. They can at least communicate with one another in spite of over 300 languages. Now that's quite a feat. As for unity in diversity, I don't see how we can have one wihtout the other, at least language-wise. To take an example, without a common language (unity), we would all need to learn a number of languages, and that woudl likely mean all the major languages, thus taking time away from learning other languages. As a result, without that linguistic unity, extreme diversity is not possible. Supposing however that an easy common language were established, then we could learn the first language of our choice, be it French, English, Inuktitu, Inuinaqtun, etc. and it wouldn't matter because, worse case scenario, we'd all share a common second language. In this resepct, diversity depends on unity, andunity depends on diversity. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Machjo Posted May 17, 2009 Author Report Posted May 17, 2009 Never mind the fact that the policy of the Indonesian government from Independence day to fairly recent has been to supress as much as possible any sign of diversity. That I will agree to. Indeed until recently the govenrment severely neglected local languages, and certainly I wouldn't want to adopt a similar policy altogether. The basic principle of creting, or in the case of Bahasa Indonesia, developing, a common language while maintaining its grammatical regularity still stands, and has proven successful. I'm not defending any other policy of the government's other than that one alone. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Machjo Posted May 17, 2009 Author Report Posted May 17, 2009 We are taking about the wilful destruction by government of the English speaking culture in Canada by destroying their values and ideologies and including by force (policies) the values and ideologies of other cultures who refuse to assimilate. We will se how the White English speaking yanks laugh when BO tries to pull this off or something similarin the U.S. Why shoudl they have to assimilate when they've been here for 30,000 plus years! Talk about the tourist calling the locals foreigners. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Machjo Posted May 17, 2009 Author Report Posted May 17, 2009 Fact is all provinces in Canada always did have the right to implement their own official language. It is not a Qwe-bec inovation. Qwe-bec it seems are smarter than the other provinces in Canada to implement their own official language to protect their culture. I'll partly agree. I don;t believe it's the government's job to impose this or tht culture, but rather to just administer the state. I support one official language in Quebec because of the efficiencies in brings with it in administrative costs, not to 'protect its culture'. Sure that might be an added bonus, but imposed assimilation shold never be an objective of government. Integration, yes. Assimilation, no. There is a sbtle difference. Assimilation implies loss of one's own culture; integration implies learning the local culture but not necessarily abandoning your own. In other words, assimilation implies trading one culture in for another, whereas integration implies becoming bicultural in your first culture plus a second common culture. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Machjo Posted May 17, 2009 Author Report Posted May 17, 2009 Typical French Canadian reply. Oh the stereotyping. Of course all French Canadians are 'typical'. Heck, we all look the same too. We all go to Catholic mass every Sunday. We all eat poutine. We all live in Quebec. We all vote Bloc. We all go to Quebec City to celebrate Carnaval. We all dress the same, talk the same, and even have the same ahircuts. Oops, but I'm not Catholic, I dont eat putine, I don't live in Queebc and so couldn't vote Bloc even if I wanted to, and haven't visited Quebec City for years. Or perhaps you imagine a more European model, with a bonnet on the head, abaguette under the arm and sitting on a bicycle going to the restaurant to eat frogs' legs? I bet you do. FYI, we're not borgs and don't appreciate being steretyped as such. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Machjo Posted May 17, 2009 Author Report Posted May 17, 2009 Leafless, have you ever knowingly met a French Canadian? Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Leafless Posted May 17, 2009 Report Posted May 17, 2009 Leafless, have you ever knowingly met a French Canadian? I am half French and my wife IS French. Quote
Machjo Posted May 17, 2009 Author Report Posted May 17, 2009 I am half French and my wife IS French. So how can you say 'typical' when you know damn well that we're not borgs. At least in the Ottawa area, language is about the only thing that unites us. Beyond that, we're of every religion, some are vegetarian, some drink, some don't, and don;t identify with any particular ideology. So beyond language and our literature, what really do we 'typical' French Canadians share in common? Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Machjo Posted May 17, 2009 Author Report Posted May 17, 2009 (edited) Now you said' Frech, so I take it you're from France. I've never been there and so can't comment on it, but Canada is not France. Edited May 17, 2009 by Machjo Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Leafless Posted May 17, 2009 Report Posted May 17, 2009 Why shoudl they have to assimilate when they've been here for 30,000 plus years! Talk about the tourist calling the locals foreigners. Wars change all that and France gave Britain all rights to Canada except for two small islands which were St.Pierre and Miquelon just of the south shore of Newfoundland. Wars are not exclusive to Canada and has happened many times relating to past history. You have winners and you have losers. Quote
Machjo Posted May 17, 2009 Author Report Posted May 17, 2009 Wars change all that and France gave Britain all rights to Canada except for two small islands which were St.Pierre and Miquelon just of the south shore of Newfoundland. Wars are not exclusive to Canada and has happened many times relating to past history. You have winners and you have losers. What kind of logic is that? So in that case, once we win in Afghanistan, when can we expect them all to be talking English? Have you ever read Gibbon's Decline and Fall? Facinating book. In it he talks about how the Romans tolerated the Greek language. Why do you think that was? Do you think it would have been wise of them to just impose Latin or to just go out and slaughter the Greeks? Granted, they still maintained the supremacy of Latin. But we'd think in the modern world we would have advanced beyond concepts of might makes right to thinking of what is right instead. I don't know if you're a Christian, but if so, you might enjoy The Kingdom of God is Within You by Leo Tolstoy, available online. I'm not Christian myself and don't agree with everything in the book, but I admire his intentions and learnt alot from it none-the-less. How about going eyond simple muscle flexing to civilization and culture? Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Leafless Posted May 17, 2009 Report Posted May 17, 2009 So how can you say 'typical' when you know damn well that we're not borgs. At least in the Ottawa area, language is about the only thing that unites us. That is news to me. The French language by way of language policies was forced on Ottawa. Beyond that, we're of every religion, some are vegetarian, some drink, some don't, and don;t identify with any particular ideology. So beyond language and our literature, what really do we 'typical' French Canadians share in common? Culture of entitlement. Quote
Leafless Posted May 17, 2009 Report Posted May 17, 2009 (edited) What kind of logic is that? So in that case, once we win in Afghanistan, when can we expect them all to be talking English? When? No one can say for sure but currently I am certain many have already picked up some of the language. How about going eyond simple muscle flexing to civilization and culture? It is NOT majority English speaking Canadians who are doing the muscle flexing. Edited May 17, 2009 by Leafless Quote
lictor616 Posted May 17, 2009 Report Posted May 17, 2009 Never mind the fact that the policy of the Indonesian government from Independence day to fairly recent has been to supress as much as possible any sign of diversity. And rightly so! Indonesians aren't quite as stupid as liberal westerners, who foolishly flout the immutable laws of human affairs and insanely deny the ironclad fact: DIVERSITY IS WEAKNESS. It is only majority white nations who think in this peculiar manner... it is only the west that is afflicted with this liberal disease... and childishly idealistic outlook on life. Indonesians understand that the East Timorese are not indonesians, and do not want "diversity" in Indonesia... Quote -Magna Europa Est Patria Nostra-
lictor616 Posted May 17, 2009 Report Posted May 17, 2009 In other words, something that is only a figment of your imagination. No the destruction of European derived people, cultures, languages and mores is well under way... Anglophones today speak a weaker and less sophisticated form of English then previous generations... that's a fact. Also sense of kinship and community is pretty much lost in anglo canada (as it is nearly everywhere in the West)... leafless is quite correct in his statement. Quote -Magna Europa Est Patria Nostra-
lictor616 Posted May 17, 2009 Report Posted May 17, 2009 (edited) As for Indonesia, I'm speaking of its language poicies only, not anything else. They can at least communicate with one another in spite of over 300 languages. Now that's quite a feat. As for unity in diversity, I don't see how we can have one wihtout the other, at least language-wise. To take an example, without a common language (unity), we would all need to learn a number of languages, and that woudl likely mean all the major languages, thus taking time away from learning other languages. As a result, without that linguistic unity, extreme diversity is not possible. Supposing however that an easy common language were established, then we could learn the first language of our choice, be it French, English, Inuktitu, Inuinaqtun, etc. and it wouldn't matter because, worse case scenario, we'd all share a common second language. In this resepct, diversity depends on unity, andunity depends on diversity. wth!?? Indonesia is not at all linguistically diverse... they do not have 300 languages there... in fact Indonesian "was first declared the official language with the declaration of Indonesian independence in 1945, following the 1928 unifying-language declaration in the Indonesian Youth Pledge. Almost 100% of Indonesia's 240 million inhabitants speak the language and it is one of the most widely spoken languages in the world.[1] So the precise opposite of what you say is the reality... Every line that you wrote is a shrieking falsity. How can linguistic unity be achieved though DISUNITED languages? Diversity is the foremost enemy of unity and cohesiveness... 1/ (Sneddon, James Neil (2004), The Indonesian Language: Its History and Role in Modern Society, UNSW Press) Edited May 17, 2009 by lictor616 Quote -Magna Europa Est Patria Nostra-
tango Posted May 17, 2009 Report Posted May 17, 2009 I suppose you're right. As long as we are failing to learn our second official language, the government really has no choice but to provide services in both official languages. Yes, it will, just as many other countries do, including the US. Get over it. Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 17, 2009 Report Posted May 17, 2009 We are taking about the wilful destruction by government of the English speaking culture in Canada by destroying their values and ideologies and including by force (policies) the values and ideologies of other cultures who refuse to assimilate. Errr...OK...but it has nothing to do with "U.S. Negroes" or their civil rights struggle. The ironic thing is that there are plenty of domestic Canadian examples to make such an argument, but for some reason the defining elements always come from the USA, "Negroes" being a favorite. We will se how the White English speaking yanks laugh when BO tries to pull this off or something similarin the U.S. Not a problem...many US states already have official language laws. Spanish has been incorporated nicely in many communities without the neverending language bitch-fest seen in Canada. I was watching CPAC during the auto bail-out hearings, and one MP disrupted the hearing by insisting that everything be discussed and submitted in both official languages. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
tango Posted May 17, 2009 Report Posted May 17, 2009 Not a problem...many US states already have official language laws. Spanish has been incorporated nicely in many communities without the neverending language bitch-fest seen in Canada. I was watching CPAC during the auto bail-out hearings, and one MP disrupted the hearing by insisting that everything be discussed and submitted in both official languages. There is no neverending language bitch-fest in Canada, bc: Only here on the right-wing mapleleafweb where a few language-disabled males like to make an issue of it, fuelled by Machjo who persistently posts a new thread about it every few days, pushing the scummy Fraser Institute agenda. It's a non-issue. Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 17, 2009 Report Posted May 17, 2009 There is no neverending language bitch-fest in Canada, bc: Only here on the right-wing mapleleafweb where a few language-disabled males like to make an issue of it, fuelled by Machjo who persistently posts a new thread about it every few days, pushing the scummy Fraser Institute agenda.It's a non-issue. I disagree....I have frequented Canadian forums since 2002 and there are plenty of folks more than willing to have a go at "Bill 101" and related bitching, from hiring practices to public accommodation. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Machjo Posted May 17, 2009 Author Report Posted May 17, 2009 wth!??Indonesia is not at all linguistically diverse... they do not have 300 languages there... in fact Indonesian "was first declared the official language with the declaration of Indonesian independence in 1945, following the 1928 unifying-language declaration in the Indonesian Youth Pledge. Almost 100% of Indonesia's 240 million inhabitants speak the language and it is one of the most widely spoken languages in the world.[1] So the precise opposite of what you say is the reality... Every line that you wrote is a shrieking falsity. How can linguistic unity be achieved though DISUNITED languages? Diversity is the foremost enemy of unity and cohesiveness... 1/ (Sneddon, James Neil (2004), The Indonesian Language: Its History and Role in Modern Society, UNSW Press) I wasn't talking about official languages, but languages. It does have over 300 languages, but only one official language. Imagine 300 official languages! Couldn't happen. That would be like Canada making all of its Aboriginal languages official. We have over 60 of them! Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Machjo Posted May 17, 2009 Author Report Posted May 17, 2009 That is news to me. The French language by way of language policies was forced on Ottawa. Culture of entitlement. What culture of entitlement? Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Machjo Posted May 17, 2009 Author Report Posted May 17, 2009 When? No one can say for sure but currently I am certain many have already picked up some of the language. It is NOT majority English speaking Canadians who are doing the muscle flexing. I agree that many French Canadians are unreasonable in their linguistic expectations from the government. That said, I've come acrs the same unreasonableness among many English-Canadians too. So no, French Canadians haven't got a monopoly on unreasonable expectations from the government by way of language policy. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Oleg Bach Posted May 17, 2009 Report Posted May 17, 2009 I disagree....I have frequented Canadian forums since 2002 and there are plenty of folks more than willing to have a go at "Bill 101" and related bitching, from hiring practices to public accommodation. We speak British - that's offical - our money is British - old school queen stuff of course - our courts - heavey on British property law - and low on human rights unless you are upper class of course...our sneaky well hidden sense of snobby superiourity - why British of course - When Britian collapsed via the EU and loosing most of it's colonies - not to mention immigration policies that are actually open invasion invitations... Looks like all that is left of British former glory is us...and we have no other languages other than British - formally called English - here here ! Raise another glass to the pain of having to tolerate our lessors with less stiff upper lips.... as for you Mr. Bush Cheney - YOU are not adopted into the club - you are now offically and honourary Britain - and from now on you will speak nothing but British - this speaking American has got to go - and the French - you devestated your genetic pool a long time ago by chopping of the heads of all those that were bright - with that big bladed machine thing...the French should submit and learn British also - besides when the thin lipped French speak it sounds and looks like they are snearnig though their noses - no more of that please! JUST BRITISH.... Quote
Machjo Posted May 17, 2009 Author Report Posted May 17, 2009 And rightly so! Indonesians aren't quite as stupid as liberal westerners, who foolishly flout the immutable laws of human affairs and insanely deny the ironclad fact: DIVERSITY IS WEAKNESS. I disagree. I'd say diversity minus unity is weakness. You seem to see the two as exclusive. If anything, they depend on one another. In a homogeneous society, people will go out of their way to seek out diversity. In a society lacking unity, people will seek out unity. One cannot exist without the other. I will agree however that Canada has gone out to seek diversity minus unity. As a result, people have gone out to seek unity, examples being a united Quebec identity through the Bloc Quebecois, etc. If we fail to promote a common national identity for all, then people will seek out unity elsewhere, even if it's ethnic unity. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
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