Flurry of patronage postings

[jdobbin]

One thing I don't see a lot of people offering is suggestions as to how the PM can make appointments without them appearing to be patronage.

He can't. They are all patronage no matter who he appoints. Harper doesn't get that it is part of the system.

The only thing he can do is to try and not let it seem a corrupt practice. I don't know that he is really making it look like that when it appears some Tories are getting awards for service.

Regardless of who is doing the appointing, they're going to select the candidates they feel best fit the position. The only way to eliminate this atmosphere of patronage is to take away the PM's authority for appointments.

Don't know if anyone has proposed that. Harper simply has chosen not to go through with scrutiny of his appointments.

[Moonbox]

For people who voted for Harper believing he was going to end these practices, it is a betrayal/

Find me someone who voted based on that issue and who feels betrayed.

No, don't you try to weasel out of what I said. I said he was going to force an election or call one himself to face Dion. Anything else you say on this subject is a lie.

That's kind of what you said but not exactly. You said he would call an election before the Liberals reorganized. The Liberals are still broke and still don't know what they're all about. They're still a mess, and there's been NO election. Why? Because everyone knew it would be political suicide to call another election deep in an early financial crisis.

His other reforms did not require a constitutional hearing. Harper simply abandoned them and didn't even really campaign for them in the last election.

Although it's not like you care, you just want to point out that Harper can't do anything until he gets a majority and there are reasons why he acts like the Liberals he criticized for years.

He abandoned them, sure, but I wonder how much the fact that the Liberals are close to getting their hands back on the bureaucracy. He didn't start making Senate appointments etc until December, when the coalition was threatening.

[jdobbin]

Find me someone who voted based on that issue and who feels betrayed.

If that was an issue of importance for some on the right, you don't think they will think it is a betrayal? Or do people on the right not really care about appointments?

That's kind of what you said but not exactly. You said he would call an election before the Liberals reorganized. The Liberals are still broke and still don't know what they're all about. They're still a mess, and there's been NO election. Why? Because everyone knew it would be political suicide to call another election deep in an early financial crisis.

I said they would call an election to face Dion, face a party that had spent its money on the election and before they could get organized. That is exactly what I said and anything else is a lie.

He abandoned them, sure, but I wonder how much the fact that the Liberals are close to getting their hands back on the bureaucracy. He didn't start making Senate appointments etc until December, when the coalition was threatening.

And now people can legitimately ask if they want to keep a party in power that acts like Liberals or of they want to elect the real thing. I have seen that header in a few media columns now.

[Smallc]

Yes, Harper was in danger of losing power, so he broke more of his promises...REFORM!!!! indeed.

[Moonbox]

If that was an issue of importance for some on the right, you don't think they will think it is a betrayal? Or do people on the right not really care about appointments?

No, I think people on the right understood that it wasn't a really practical time to start reforming. As things turned out, like I said, there were hardly any appointments at all until after the last election and only then when the coalition threatened and Conservative poll numbers started to sink.

I said they would call an election to face Dion, face a party that had spent its money on the election and before they could get organized. That is exactly what I said and anything else is a lie.

And I said that Harper wouldn't call an election so soon because it would be political suicide. As it stands, May has come, there's been no election, the LPC is still broke and the Liberals are still mixed up over what they're supposed to be about. Their increase in the polls is more a matter of the CPC leading through a recession, which I said would happen, because no part does well during a run of economic crap.

And now people can legitimately ask if they want to keep a party in power that acts like Liberals or of they want to elect the real thing. I have seen that header in a few media columns now.

But shouldn't they be asking if people want a CPC that acts like Liberals or a Liberal Party making NDP-style promises. EI proposal?

[Shakeyhands]

Harper has never enjoyed anything BUT a shaky minority government. That you think this has only been the case since December says nothing good about your understanding or even familiarity with politics.

Shakey my ass. Your guys LAUGHED and HECKLED from your side of the floor everytime Dion et all voted WITH you. What this shows is your partisanship my friend, there is no reflection on me at all... thanks for the personal attack though. Very sweet.

[Argus]

For a partisan, yes.

For people who voted for Harper believing he was going to end these practices, it is a betrayal/

Speaking for myself, I voted in the hopes of many things, but at a minimum; competent government with a measure of integrity I had not seen from previous governments. I would say that he has, at least, met that minimum requirement.

[Argus]

I get a kick out of that claim... can't do anything 'til he gets a majority.

Whoever would have thought that Stephane Dion was so powerful... powerful enough to MAKE those Conservatives break every promise they've ever made, and to govern from the opposition benches. And Ignatief? Must be some sort of superman!

I sympathise with your difficulties. Arithmetic can be a challenge to many. For others, adding up the numbers is a fairly simple affair with fairly clear answers.

[Argus]

One thing I don't see a lot of people offering is suggestions as to how the PM can make appointments without them appearing to be patronage. Regardless of who is doing the appointing, they're going to select the candidates they feel best fit the position.

Well, if you actually apoint people who seem qualified for the positions - and the "qualification" entails more than loyalty and work on behalf of the party - you're much more likely to get less of a smell from the process.

If, on the other hand, you appoint hundreds of people every year who clearly have zero experience, and in many cases, even interest in the job they're being appointed to, and whose only commonality is they're card carrying party members - which is how the Liberals did it - then the rest of us have to hold our nose.

[jdobbin]

Speaking for myself, I voted in the hopes of many things, but at a minimum; competent government with a measure of integrity I had not seen from previous governments. I would say that he has, at least, met that minimum requirement.

Well, this competent government overspent, went into deficit and has gone against the principles of it founding members of the parties and blamed being minority status for the whole thing.

[Argus]

Shakey my ass. Your guys LAUGHED and HECKLED from your side of the floor everytime Dion et all voted WITH you. What this shows is your partisanship my friend, there is no reflection on me at all... thanks for the personal attack though. Very sweet.

"You guys?" I'm not a tory. I've never been a tory. I'm not sure I know of any Tory mps I even like much. I vote for the tories simply because the only alternative - the Liberals - has been a smug, self-righteous, dishonest, deceitful collection of grasping, greedy, venal self-interested slime for as long as I can remember.

As for partisanship in the House, it's been there a long time. The extreme partisanship is a Liberal innovation created largely by Warren Kinsella during the Mulroney years and eagerly supported by Jean Chretien and Paul Martin, both men who loved to hate.

[Argus]

Well, this competent government overspent, went into deficit and has gone against the principles of it founding members of the parties and blamed being minority status for the whole thing.

Overspent? Yes. They overspent in pursuit of votes, which I certainly dissaprove of. On the other hand, it's routine for governments in an election period to do - and a minority is always in an election period. Going into deficit would have been unforgiveable had your party and the others not absolutely insisted on a huge incentive program which could not have been brougth about without a deficit. So to my mind, the deficit is more you guys fault than the Tories. Though I dont exempt them from blame.

As i've said before, if there was something better on the horizon I'd dump the Tories and vote for it.

Unfortunately, there's only you guys.

[jdobbin]

No, I think people on the right understood that it wasn't a really practical time to start reforming. As things turned out, like I said, there were hardly any appointments at all until after the last election and only then when the coalition threatened and Conservative poll numbers started to sink.

Afraid appointments happened long before that coalition talk.

And I said that Harper wouldn't call an election so soon because it would be political suicide. As it stands, May has come, there's been no election, the LPC is still broke and the Liberals are still mixed up over what they're supposed to be about. Their increase in the polls is more a matter of the CPC leading through a recession, which I said would happen, because no part does well during a run of economic crap.

You see, I have had this conversation before about how Harper would never call an election before the term limit since it would be political suicide. It obviously wasn't.

Harper was ready to jump all over a party still run by Dion. You say it is political suicide but I think it was strategy that they though would work.

As for the contention that the Liberals are broke, the last report said they are close to paying off their election debt and are ready to go to an election financially. Organizationally and policy-wise they need more work and that is why Ignatieff wanted a policy platform by June.

But shouldn't they be asking if people want a CPC that acts like Liberals or a Liberal Party making NDP-style promises. EI proposal?

Let's go to an election then. Let's see Harper make it a confidence motion.

[jdobbin]

So to my mind, the deficit is more you guys fault than the Tories. Though I dont exempt them from blame.

Yes, I know the strategy is to blame the Liberals for the deficit.

We'll see if it works.

As i've said before, if there was something better on the horizon I'd dump the Tories and vote for it.

Unfortunately, there's only you guys.

Harper probably has one election left in him. If there is no majority, you'll probably have to look for someone else in your party to vote for.

[Argus]

Yes, I know the strategy is to blame the Liberals for the deficit.

Gee, could it be the sight of every senior member of your party screaming and gnashing his and her teeth, running around in circles, wailing and crying and demanding a superduper fantastically expensive incentive program? Threatening to bring down the government without one? Senior members of your party then complaining it wasn't large enough, demanding another additional incentive program before this one was even voted on?

Naaaaaaaaa

Harper probably has one election left in him. If there is no majority, you'll probably have to look for someone else in your party to vote for.

Hey, I don't hate Ignatieff. I think he sounds kind of self-righteous and two-faced at times, but that's politics for you. If he purges the party of all the losers who have filled its leadership positions over the past twenty years I could even be persuaded to vote for him.

But as long as you've got a lineup that includes the likes of Denis Coderre, John McCallum, Ralph Goodale, Scott Brison, Ujjal Dosanjh and Hedy Fry, forget it.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Argus

[jdobbin]

Senior members of your party then complaining it wasn't large enough, demanding another additional incentive program before this one was even voted on?

Could it be that Harper kept cutting taxes, kept spending and had little room for a downturn? Naaa. The Parliamentary Budget Officer said Harper was headed for a big deficit regardless of stimulus.

Hey, I don't hate Ignatieff. I think he sounds kind of self-righteous and two-faced at times, but that's politics for you. If he purges the party of all the losers who have filled its leadership positions over the past twenty years I could even be persuaded to vote for him.

But as long as you've got a lineup that includes the likes of Denis Coderre, John McCallum, Ralph Goodale, Scott Brison, Ujjal Dosanjh and Hedy Fry, forget it.

There are still some losers from the PCs in the present Conservatives. Probably quite a few of them with close links to Mulroney.

[Alta4ever]

Could it be that Harper kept cutting taxes, kept spending and had little room for a downturn? Naaa. The Parliamentary Budget Officer said Harper was headed for a big deficit regardless of stimulus.

Yet their was no budget deficit last year and you had posted links to articles and stated their would be. The Parliamentary budget office said their would be a budget deficit last year yet their wasn't.

Just like your election prediction and so on... you are constantly wrong do you ever tire of it?

[jdobbin]

Yet their was no budget deficit last year and you had posted links to articles and stated their would be. The Parliamentary budget office said their would be a budget deficit last year yet their wasn't.

The Budget Officer was predicting the deficit for 2009. Nice try though.

Just like your election prediction and so on... you are constantly wrong do you ever tire of it?

Why do you feel the need to lie all the time? Do you ever tire of it?

I said a spring election with Dion at the helm. Dion wasn't at the helm this spring.

[Alta4ever]

I said a spring election with Dion at the helm. Dion wasn't at the helm this spring.

excuses

What about the majority prediction in the fall?

[jdobbin]

excuses

What about the majority prediction in the fall?

Lies again.

How many times do I have to point out to you the same posts where I said how such a majority would happen barring things like a major scandal in the election or the economy. Well, lo and behold, the economy had a major impact.

[sharkman]

Lies again, eh? Kind of reminds me how you've enjoyed pointing out my wrong predictions in the U.S. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, people are lying. The secret to any prediction is to give yourself wriggle room to blame other events. That way you can fool yourself into thinking you're still right. I look forward to see what new predictions the doktor will provide.

[Alta4ever]

Lies again.

How many times do I have to point out to you the same posts where I said how such a majority would happen barring things like a major scandal in the election or the economy. Well, lo and behold, the economy had a major impact.

Gee last time I brough this up you said it was the Arts funding announcement in quebec.

[jdobbin]

Gee last time I brough this up you said it was the Arts funding announcement in quebec.

That didn't help in Quebec although it didn't matter for the rest of the country. It was the economy that changed the entire tone of the election including in Quebec.

[Alta4ever]

That didn't help in Quebec although it didn't matter for the rest of the country. It was the economy that changed the entire tone of the election including in Quebec.

What ever it take sto justify it in your world. If you recall a number of us told you then you were wrong about your predictions.

[jdobbin]

What ever it take sto justify it in your world. If you recall a number of us told you then you were wrong about your predictions.

And during the election, I revised my prediction based on the change in circumstances. You are like Mulroney in that you leave our facts and generally lie.