Obama's CIA torture exemption 'illegal' : UPDATE!

[waldo]

krusty - you’re a hoot… freerepublic can’t even match your zest and vinegar for Bush anymore. Really, c’mon… who still mentions WMD?… you really need to update your talking points cause that ole WMD faulty intelligence stuff is just so beaten-up – so dated. Regime change seems to be the more fancied go-to term for those wishing to attempt to substantiate the Iraq war debacle.

yes… the Bush administration is innocent… of everything. Bush… and you… can “maturely” rationalize the Iraq war based on WMD faulty intelligence.

that is BAS – Bush Apologist Syndrome.

[Sir Bandelot]

So now we are starting to learn that all the outrage over Abu Ghraib, the shame placed on soldiers like England were misdirected! She and others were simply scapegoats to protect the people at the top, maybe at the very top, so that the truth would be concealed. And Donald Rumsfeld's comments just before he left office that "Clearly the worst day was Abu Ghraib, and seeing what went on there and feeling so deeply sorry that that happened, I remember being stunned by the news of the abuse." were lies. He knew what was happening, and he himself possibly authorized it. But he had no problem letting the blame fall on others at the time, as this story indicates-

Abu Ghraib head finds vindication in newly released memos

---

Taking a broader view again, what does this all say about a political system, where the party in power abuses its authority and manipulates the media, lying, to cover up their transgressions? We have to wait until another party gets power to find out the real truth of what happened a few years ago? And if McCain had won and become president, and the GOP retained its power would we have known this?

I am not picking on only the GOP here. It says we have a corrupt political system, not open and transparent but self-serving, to maintain their hold on power and wealth.And to the people in charge there are a different set of rules. It's not which law you break that matters, it's who else knows about it!

[bush_cheney2004]

...I am not picking on only the GOP here. It says we have a corrupt political system, not open and transparent but self-serving, to maintain their hold on power and wealth.And to the people in charge there are a different set of rules. It's not which law you break that matters, it's who else knows about it!

It is no more corrupt than the general population from which it comes. Why would "we" expect such a difference in the first place?

[Sir Bandelot]

It is no more corrupt than the general population from which it comes. Why would "we" expect such a difference in the first place?

I wouldn't generalize to say that the majprity of society is corrupt. I think that there are people who believe in real fairness and justice, in any society and there are those who don't care for anything beyond serving themselves first and foremost, regardless of law or civility.

Now ask yourself which side of the fence you're on

[bush_cheney2004]

....Now ask yourself which side of the fence you're on

But that is the point....there really is no fence...more like a graduated terrain of hill and valley....each crossed when circumstances require. Just ask any interned citizen of Japanese descent.

The very existence of the 'Gitmo detainees outside of the USA were evidence enough of purposeful measures designed to stretch the limits as much as possible.

As another member related, "extraordinary rendition" wasn't invented by the Bush Administration.

[Borg]

Obama's CIA torture exemption 'illegal' : UPDATE!, US bound under the UN Convention against Torture to prosecute?

And your point is?

UN = Corupt fat cats

Never going to happen no matter how much some scream

Borg

[Moonlight Graham]

The people responsible for making the decisions regarding the torture of U.S. "enemy combatants" should be charged and put in jail. Whether its members of the CIA, or in the White House Office. What they did was illegal according to U.N. law and the Geneva Conventions. More than that, it is a spit in the face to the freedom & human rights ideals that the U.S. was founded on. Men like Lincoln & Jefferson should be rolling in their graves.

[bush_cheney2004]

The people responsible for making the decisions regarding the torture of U.S. "enemy combatants" should be charged and put in jail. Whether its members of the CIA, or in the White House Office. What they did was illegal according to U.N. law and the Geneva Conventions. More than that, it is a spit in the face to the freedom & human rights ideals that the U.S. was founded on. Men like Lincoln & Jefferson should be rolling in their graves.

Nonsense....the USA was not founded on human rights ideals, and torture interrogations have nothing to do with "freedom" for a prisoner. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus for Krisakes....three separate times!

[Borg]

America has one sacred policy - Kill to get what you believe you need. Lie to appease all on lookers..Punder till you are so full that you collapse your own economy like a gluttonous pig.

A load of crap

Borg

[Borg]

And all the while the world carry's on and laughs as the U.S. administration either tears itself apart or diverts attention from the real problem - the U.S. is going broke.

Bama is smart - divert attention from his very real inability to carry on as he promised.

I believe his approval rating will soon plummet

Borg

[Moonlight Graham]

Nonsense....the USA was not founded on human rights ideals, and torture interrogations have nothing to do with "freedom" for a prisoner. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus for Krisakes....three separate times!

The U.S. was foremost founded on the rights and freedoms of human individuals, in direct response to the rights they were being deprived of by Britian, you should know that. Maybe you should go read the Declaration of Independence. Founded on the ideas of natural law. It states this clearly in the Declaration:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...

Also, read the Bill of Rights, especially Amendment VII dealing with "cruel and unusual punishments".

Edited April 25, 2009 by Moonlight Graham

[sharkman]

Moonlight, nice to see you defending the honor of the US and its constitution, but didn't they have slavery? And when again was it that women could vote in the U.S.? They were not without fault until they started mistreating terrorists, friend. Just like the rest of the nations were not perfect.

In this case, their record up to now is not the point, the point is how these terrorists are treating Americans. You know, flying planes into occupied buildings. Waterboarding, sleep deprivation and playing Barney records is not torture. But in this day and age, only someone who's truly been tortured seems able to tell the difference.

Meanwhile, emboldened terrorists are high fiving each other about their prospects state side now that enemy combatants must be given the rights of American citizens. And expect more attacks on U.S. soil within the next couple of years.

[bush_cheney2004]

The U.S. was foremost founded on the rights and freedoms of human individuals, in direct response to the rights they were being deprived of by Britian, you should know that. Maybe you should go read the Declaration of Independence. Founded on the ideas of natural law.

Not even close.....those "human individuals" did not include the majority of the population.

Also, read the Bill of Rights, especially Amendment VII dealing with "cruel and unusual punishments".

So lacking this, Canada was a den of human rights abuse?

[tango]

Allies split with US over torture

AT the height of the American-led war on terror, George W Bush began to encounter an unexpected problem. The use of harsh interrogation techniques on captured Al-Qaeda terrorists caused a damaging rift with leading US allies, among them Britain and Israel, according to a former State Department official.

Philip Zelikow, a senior adviser to Condoleezza Rice, then secretary of state, revealed last week that “some of Europe’s best allies found it increasingly difficult to assist us in counterterrorism, because they feared becoming complicit in a programme their governments abhorred”.

A member of Barack Obama’s presidential transition team also disclosed yesterday that during a series of secret briefings late last year at the CIA, aides to the then president-elect were told that several foreign intelligence services had refused to share information about the location of terrorism suspects for fear of becoming implicated in the use of torture during interrogations.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle6169041.ece

[bush_cheney2004]

Allies split with US over torture

Great news.....apparently some allies did not split with US over "torture".

[Moonlight Graham]

Moonlight, nice to see you defending the honor of the US and its constitution, but didn't they have slavery? And when again was it that women could vote in the U.S.? They were not without fault until they started mistreating terrorists, friend. Just like the rest of the nations were not perfect.

Well you are right, some portions of the constitution contradict the words of the Declaration of Independence. Yes there was slavery, but the Constitution would never have been signed by the lower states if slavery didn't remain for them. Racist, and of course sexist. Took a while to work out the major kinks, but i still believe the Declaration and Constitution were based upon the ideal of individual rights, freedom, and justice for all. How can the U.S. stand strong behind these ideals, yet not respect similar rights in the way they treat others (re: torture).

Waterboarding, sleep deprivation and playing Barney records is not torture.

Disturbs me you would place Barney records and even sleep deprivation in the same category as waterboarding.

Meanwhile, emboldened terrorists are high fiving each other about their prospects state side now that enemy combatants must be given the rights of American citizens. And expect more attacks on U.S. soil within the next couple of years.

Same rights as American's? No. Basic human rights? Yes, i would hope. A nation based on Christian values...what would Jesus do? Waterboard 'em!!!

[Moonlight Graham]

Not even close.....those "human individuals" did not include the majority of the population.

See above.

[bush_cheney2004]

See above.

See below above. Ideals are nice (e.g. human rights)...and usually a complete fiction.

I prefer reality.....far more interesting.

[Moonlight Graham]

See below above. Ideals are nice (e.g. human rights)...and usually a complete fiction.

I prefer reality.....far more interesting.

I think people need both. Common sense, but also high goals to shoot for. e.g: 'I Have a Dream' speech. There's nothing wrong with having goals, even if they may not be completely unattainable.

[Topaz]

Sean Hannity has said that waterboarding is not torturing and he has said he would get waterboarded just to prove it. I can imagine the people lining up to pour the water over his big mouth and down the nose!! I bet he chickens out.

[Moonlight Graham]

Sean Hannity has said that waterboarding is not torturing and he has said he would get waterboarded just to prove it. I can imagine the people lining up to pour the water over his big mouth and down the nose!! I bet he chickens out.

If waterboarding isn't horrible & make people want to talk then the CIA wouldn't do it. This debate is stupid. On a grander note, the majority of people in this world are complete idiots, guess i just have to live with that.